Where is/can Donald Trump take US (sic)?

[wayneL]

Its true luutzu, too far to the right and a lot of people become very unhappy.Likewise too far left.

You have to govern from the center so everyone is equally, but relatively less unhappy :

 

[luutzu]

Its true luutzu, too far to the right and a lot of people become very unhappy.Likewise too far left.

You have to govern from the center so everyone is equally, but relatively less unhappy :

Wise words Sifu.

 

[basilio]

Donald Trumps rabid anti Muslim hype is having its effects. He said that America should simply ban Muslims entering the country. Right now it seems that Homeland security is reinforcing that line by arbitary withdrawal of visa to internationals travellers who are Islamic.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...rica-refuses-british-muslim-family-disneyland

Calls for David Cameron to step in after US bars British Muslim family from trip

Labour’s Stella Creasy writes to PM after party of 11 heading to Disneyland were told by American officials at Gatwick they could not go

The prime minister is facing calls to challenge the US over its refusal to allow a British Muslim family to board a flight from Gatwick to Los Angeles, to visit Disneyland.

Stella Creasy, the Labour MP for Walthamstow, has written to the prime minister after a family party of 11, about to embark on a dream holiday for which they had saved for months, were approached by officials from US homeland security as they queued in the departure lounge and told their authorisation to travel had been cancelled, without further explanation.

Creasy said she is concerned that a growing number of British Muslims are saying they have had similar experiences of being barred from the US without being told the reasons for the exclusion.

The family, from Creasy’s constituency in north-east London, had applied for and were granted travel authorisation online some weeks before their scheduled 15 December flight.

Speaking to the Guardian, Mohammad Tariq Mahmood, who was travelling with his brother and nine of their children aged between eight and 19, said they had been given no explanation for the last minute cancellation, but he believed the reason was obvious: “It’s because of the attacks on America – they think every Muslim poses a threat.”

..... The MP, having “hit a brick wall” in her own attempts to get answers from the American embassy, has asked the prime minister to press US officials for an explanation for the Mahmood family’s exclusion. She has also asked him to clarify whether the UK monitors the numbers and ethnic or religious background of those who are blocked from travelling, to “help reassure all UK citizens that no discrimination on the grounds of faith is happening at UK airports”.

Mahmood said neither he nor his brother, Mohammad Zahid Mahmood, had ever been in trouble with the police. They have been told by the airline they were to travel with that the £9,000 cost of their flights, for which they had been saving for many months, will not be refunded.

The family were escorted from the airport but were first obliged to return every item they had bought from the airport’s duty-free shops, he said. “I have never been more embarrassed in my life. I work here, I have a business here. But we were alienated.”

With no explanation of the reasons for their exclusion, he said, the family have no idea whether they will face similar treatment if they try to travel again in future. In particular, he said, he is concerned that he may never be able to visit the family of his other brother, a US citizen, who lives in southern California.

How to win friends and influence people.. the American way.

______________________________________________________________________

With this, and a number of other examples, as precedents why would any person with an Islamic sounding name consider visiting the US for any reason? To run the risk of arbitrary insult and the loss of thousands of dollars of travel costs. Just wrong.

 

[Tisme]

Donald Trumps rabid anti Muslim hype is having its effects. He said that America should simply ban Muslims entering the country. Right now it seems that Homeland security is reinforcing that line by arbitary withdrawal of visa to internationals travellers who are Islamic.


How to win friends and influence people.. the American way.

______________________________________________________________________

With this, and a number of other examples, as precedents why would any person with an Islamic sounding name consider visiting the US for any reason? To run the risk of arbitrary insult and the loss of thousands of dollars of travel costs. Just wrong.

They always keep me from getting on until last minute in the USA and even have my name telecast on the concourse tv screens to tell me I can't board while they check out my status. I feel special

Truth is that we are classed a terror risk with our avant-garde cum apathetic attitude to keeping our country pure of heart, Christian and white.

 

[wayneL]

Donald Trumps rabid anti Muslim hype is having its effects. He said that America should simply ban Muslims entering the country. Right now it seems that Homeland security is reinforcing that line by arbitary withdrawal of visa to internationals travellers who are Islamic.


How to win friends and influence people.. the American way.

______________________________________________________________________

With this, and a number of other examples, as precedents why would any person with an Islamic sounding name consider visiting the US for any reason? To run the risk of arbitrary insult and the loss of thousands of dollars of travel costs. Just wrong.

There *could* be more to this. While I wouldn't put it past the Americans to injudiciously do such things, there could be a reason this family was targeted.

I know you're not used to it Bas, and you believe everything the Gaurdian says is gospel, but let's get all the facts, eh?

****BTW, don't forget to attribute articles with a link*** (I have inserted it into your post)

 

[basilio]

How to get really xucked over by Uncle Sam

Seems that Uncle Sam has developed a very powerful way to terrorise anyone it doesn't like. There is the very special No Fly list which allows a secret bureaucrat the privilege of just stopping anyone they want from flying with no need for explanation or justification.

The story comes in The Guardian. (if anyone can find it in The Lying Hun , The Australian or some other paper please let me know)

The 'No Fly List' operates in secret, and its power to exclude is vast
Jeffrey Kahn

The standard for inclusion is often based on a ‘predictive judgment’, a ‘reasonable suspicion’ that someone is a ‘suspected terrorist’

Thursday 24 December 2015 06.04 AEDT


The No Fly List is not a government program easily challenged. Indeed, it operates in secrecy, from an undisclosed location, administered by an office – the Terrorist Screening Center – that doesn’t accept public inquiries. When challenged in court, the watchlisters routinely declare their methods safe but secret and fight the disclosure of their standards and criteria for inclusion.

The British Muslim family recently denied travel to Disneyland might soon discover this, despite the fact that Prime Minister David Cameron has been called upon to examine the case.

The Guardian reported that, despite prior US approvals, the entire family was turned away from Gatwick’s departure lounge. Without warning or a hearing, their freedom to travel was stripped away at great expense and deep humiliation. Instantly, they were reduced to the status of suspected terrorists by anonymous US officials working without any judicial oversight.

Imagine your family in their shoes. If you can’t, then you don’t understand the power of the US No Fly List.

Just ask Ayman Latif, an honorably discharged US marine who sought to return home from abroad to shore up his veteran’s benefits. Without any offered reason or warning, he was exiled by a system that he has spent the last five years challenging in federal court.

Or ask Rahinah Ibrahim, now a distinguished architect and scholar. As a Stanford University graduate student she found herself arrested and handcuffed in front of her young daughter when she sought to travel from San Francisco to an academic conference. Her eight years of litigation finally uncovered that an FBI agent had mistakenly watchlisted her; the presiding judge labeled it “a bureaucratic analogy to a surgeon amputating the wrong digit”. (Full disclosure: I testified on behalf of Dr Ibrahim at the first and only such trial held so far.)

Or ask many others (whose stories are told in my book on the subject) who say they found themselves at the tender mercies of government officials – typically FBI agents – offering their help to get off the list in exchange for becoming government informants when they returned home.

It’s not just Muslim names on this sad list. Although accusations of racial profiling have haunted the use of the No Fly List in the past, for every Mohammad Tariq Mahmood (one of the Gatwick 11), there is a Cat Stevens or Ted Kennedy or John Lewis.

In this story, however, lies a cautionary tale for travelers regardless of citizenship or religion.

Thanks to some courageous lawyering in tough, often pro bono cases, startling information has been pried from officials: the standard for inclusion on this list is often based on a “predictive judgment”, a “reasonable suspicion” that someone is a “suspected terrorist” presenting some sort of future threat.

“In other words”, one federal judge wrote, clearly dismayed by the departure from traditional legal requirements that someone be guilty of some action before deprived of their rights, “an American citizen can find himself labeled a suspected terrorist because of a ‘reasonable suspicion’ based on a ‘reasonable suspicion’.”
It's messed up for Democrats to use the no-fly list to push for gun laws

Indeed, the cautionary tale grows grimmer still. For there is no logical reason why terrorist watchlists need be limited to air travel. Indeed, few realize how many watchlists already exist until they find themselves in their crushing grip. There is, of course, a watchlist for maritime travel. And this month President Obama urged the use of the No Fly List to deny access to firearms.

Whatever one’s views of the second amendment to the constitution, the evidence is unmistakable. A list once confined to stopping hijackers and 9/11 style bombers has grown into the go-to tool for government officials who don’t like their predictive judgments questioned by lawyers and judges.

Slowly, federal lawsuits have forced some light on to this system and forced back the worst abuses. But there is still a long way to go. Whatever US officials suspect of this British family, they deserve respect for the fundamental right we all must protect at our peril: equal justice before a neutral magistrate in a public forum.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/23/no-fly-list-operates-in-secret-power-to-exclude

I wonder what it would take to create "reasonable suspicion" about someone you didn't like ? Seems like SFA.

 

[wayneL]

Basilio you act like this is a surprise to you?

 

[luutzu]

How to get really xucked over by Uncle Sam

Seems that Uncle Sam has developed a very powerful way to terrorise anyone it doesn't like. There is the very special No Fly list which allows a secret bureaucrat the privilege of just stopping anyone they want from flying with no need for explanation or justification.

The story comes in The Guardian. (if anyone can find it in The Lying Hun , The Australian or some other paper please let me know)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/23/no-fly-list-operates-in-secret-power-to-exclude

I wonder what it would take to create "reasonable suspicion" about someone you didn't like ? Seems like SFA.

Look on the bright side. It beats being on their Kill List.

 

[basilio]

Look on the bright side. It beats being on their Kill List.

Look of course it does.. That is certainly a mercy we can appreciate. Going to a wedding in Afghanistan which turns into a mass funeral has never been top of my wish list.

But an arbitrary no fly list with mistakes, misinformation no redress and the instant categorisation of guilt? Perhaps also not on my list.

I wonder how the Y(w)anks would feel if European nations decided to also set up such a list and managed to include some prominent (w)ankers to show it feels to be just stopped from flying and lose your ticket ?

Be interesting I think..

 

[Logique]

Clinton is no moral to win, assuming she get's the nomination.

Why Voters Don't Trust Hillary Clinton
Debra J. Saunders | Jul 28, 2015

http://townhall.com/columnists/debr...dont-trust-hillary-clinton-n2031130/page/full

Voters in Colorado, Iowa and Virginia think Hillary Clinton is not honest or trustworthy. According to the latest Quinnipiac poll, a mere 34 percent of Colorado voters think she can be trusted; 62 percent do not. In Iowa, those numbers are 33 percent to 59; in Virginia, Clinton is underwater on trust, too, 39 percent to 55 percent.

Clinton's conduct is catching up with her...

 

[luutzu]

Look of course it does.. That is certainly a mercy we can appreciate. Going to a wedding in Afghanistan which turns into a mass funeral has never been top of my wish list.

But an arbitrary no fly list with mistakes, misinformation no redress and the instant categorisation of guilt? Perhaps also not on my list.

I wonder how the Y(w)anks would feel if European nations decided to also set up such a list and managed to include some prominent (w)ankers to show it feels to be just stopped from flying and lose your ticket ?

Be interesting I think..

"The strong do as they will. The weak suffer as they must."
-- Thucydides


The problem with prominent/famous/powerful/rich people (and politicians) is they never really live in the real world, never have to put up with the crap they created and the plebs have to bear - so they don't really give a second's thought.

And if they ever do give the consequences of their decisions a thought, most wouldn't give a heck anyway. They'll justify it somehow... good for the national interests; bear the burden; blah blah blah.

That's why there's always civil war or revolution every couple of generations.

 

[luutzu]

Clinton is no moral to win, assuming she get's the nomination.

I can't stand listening to her. High pitched, bulging eyes...

With Obama, at least he was more convincing... there's no hope or change with Clinton.

 

[wayneL]

Donald Trumps rabid anti Muslim hype is having its effects. He said that America should simply ban Muslims entering the country. Right now it seems that Homeland security is reinforcing that line by arbitary withdrawal of visa to internationals travellers who are Islamic.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...rica-refuses-british-muslim-family-disneyland


How to win friends and influence people.. the American way.

______________________________________________________________________

With this, and a number of other examples, as precedents why would any person with an Islamic sounding name consider visiting the US for any reason? To run the risk of arbitrary insult and the loss of thousands of dollars of travel costs. Just wrong.

I find it interesting that you actually bring this up on the Trump thread, implying that Trump is responsible. Trump has not even received the Pub nomination, he's just a hopeful at this stage.

In fact this has been going on for years, indeed under the last 7-8 years of an >>Obama<< Democrat administration.

You do understand that don't you?

 

[wayneL]

With Obama, at least he was more convincing...

Yeah, like a TV evangelist. Examine the Obama oratory, the techniques are the same.

 

[luutzu]

Yeah, like a TV evangelist. Examine the Obama oratory, the techniques are the same.

Yea, all the way down to raising money too wasn't it?

He's getting better with his speeches since too... got that confident, I'm the Man and I order people around stuff down pat.

What a wasted opportunity.
He got the people behind him, the country was collapsing - both economically, financially, and infrastructur-ally.

Good and great leaders would take that opportunity and save the country from itself. Like FDR he could have rebuild its foundation and make it stronger for the couple generations... Instead he double down on the people that break the place, follow policies that enable those people to wreck the place; and screw the masses who gave him all that opportunity and support.

7 years later and the two wars are still going, add some 6 more wars on top in the ME; then picking a fight with Russia and not really doing much to reign in China's expansion until maybe it's too late and you'd have to go to war with it or its proxies... fark!

So abroad more wars and more possible wars; maybe another GFC... at home there's mass shooting, militarised police everywhere, poorer citizens, crumbling infrastructures that doesn't seem to be in hurry to get fixed and maybe employ a few people wanting work as well as putting some of those cash to real work rather than financial games...

Wow... Evangelical preachers couldn't have done this much damage.

 

[basilio]

As Donald Trump gets closer to becoming a serious contender in the next Presidential election it's worth seeing recognizing just how much of a sociopath he is .

Donald Trump and the Central Park Five: the racially charged rise of a demagogue

In 1989 five young black men were wrongfully convicted of raping a woman jogging in New York City. Leading the charge against them was a real estate mogul whose divisive rhetoric can be found in his presidential campaign today


Thursday 18 February 2016 05.15 AEDT
Last modified on Thursday 18 February 2016 06.23 AEDT


Yusef Salaam was 15 years old when Donald Trump demanded his execution for a crime he did not commit.

Nearly three decades before the rambunctious billionaire began his run for president – before he called for a ban on Muslims entering the United States, for the expulsion of all undocumented migrants, before he branded Mexicans as “rapists” and was accused of mocking the disabled – Trump called for the reinstatement of the death penalty in New York following a horrific rape case in which five teenagers were wrongly convicted.

The miscarriage of justice is widely remembered as a definitive moment in New York’s fractured race relations. But Trump’s intervention – he signed full-page newspaper advertisements implicitly calling for the boys to die – has been gradually overlooked as the businessman’s chances of winning the Republican nomination have rapidly increased. Now those involved in the case of the so-called Central Park Five and its aftermath say Trump’s rhetoric served as an unlikely precursor to a unique brand of divisive populism that has powered his rise to political prominence in 2016.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...k-five-donald-trump-jogger-rape-case-new-york

 

[wayneL]

Either way, the US stuffed

Trump or Cruz

Hillary or Bernie

Each will screw the US in a different way.

 

[wayneL]

BTW bas, do you anything but Pravd.... Errr, The Guardian?

 

[basilio]

BTW bas, do you anything but Pravd.... Errr, The Guardian? Wayne L

And the relevance to the issue of Donald Trump being a total, vicious psyco is exactly what ?

You can check the accuracy of the story against a score of other sources. Briefly

1) There was a rape and almost murder of an investment banker in Central park in 1989

2) In the uproar 5 young black guys were rounded up.

3) The police beat a confession out of them.

4) After the kids were incarcerated and charged Donald Trump put out multiple full page ads demanding the return of the death penalty and in particular for these criminals. (they hadn't been actually tried yet..)

5) The case went to trial. The boys protested their innocence. There was no forensic evidence connecting teh kids to the crime. The prosecutors case was based solely on the beaten confessions.

6) They were found guilty and sentenced to lengthy periods of jail.

Then it gets interesting

In 2002 a guy who is already in prison puts his hand up for the assault. Forensic investigation identifies his semen in the woman. It is clearly him.

An investigation into the circumstances surrounding the prosecution of the five youths decides they couldn't have committed the crime and they are released by Christmas2002.

In 2014 the Central Park 5 win a $41 million settlement against New York city for the wrongful arrest and imprisonment. It's what happens next that tells us how seriously dangerous and deluded Donald Trump is.

Following a 14-year court battle, the Central Park Five settled a civil case with the city for $41m in 2014. But far from offering an apology for his conduct in 1989, Trump was furious.

In an opinion piece for the New York Daily News, he described the case as the “heist of the century”.

“Settling doesn’t mean innocence, but it indicates incompetence on several levels,” Trump wrote, alluding to how police and prosecutors initially involved in the case have long maintained the five boys were involved in the rape, even after the convictions were thrown out.

D’Antonio, the biographer, met with Trump shortly after the settlement was announced. The billionaire was once again considering a shot at the presidency and would, this time, actually run.

Trump was asked if he worried that his publicly confrontational style would affect his political prospects. He retorted instantly with a reference to the Central Park Five.

“I think it will help me,” he said. “I think people are tired of politically correct. I just attacked the Central Park Five settlement. Who’s going to do that?”

The biographer was shocked by what he heard. “His insensitivity and inability to adjust to reality is sometimes shocking,” D’Antonio said of Trump. “But I don’t think that he is necessarily interested in reality as others experience it or as it’s determined by the courts.

“There have been few cases of injustice that are as clear and profound as this one is, but he’s not able to consider that.”

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...k-five-donald-trump-jogger-rape-case-new-york

 

[noco]

Trump may win the Presidency when voters learn the truth.

WOW !!!!!

This is absolutely unthinkable that nobody especially the CIA would have noticed this....

Trump is starting to look better all the time
This information has all been checked, then double checked... it is 100% Correct.
That's why there is such an alarm within US government, since Trump's statement about temporary suspension of migration of Muslims to US till US authorities make sure there is a proper concept of safe penetration of US territory.

People are stunned to learn that the head of the U.S. CIA is a Muslim!
Do hope this wakes up some!
Until it hits you like a ton of bricks read it again, until you understand!
We now have a Muslim government!
John Brennan, current head of the CIA converted to Islam while stationed in Saudi Arabia.

Obama's top adviser, Valerie Jarrett, is a Muslim who was born in Iran where her parents still live.
Hillary Clinton's top adviser, Huma Abedin is a Muslim, whose mother and brother are still involved in the now outlawed Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt!

Assistant Secretary for Policy Development for Homeland Security, Arif Aikhan, is a Muslim .
Homeland Security Adviser, Mohammed Elibiary, is a Muslim .
Obama adviser and founder of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, Salam al-Marayati, is a Mu slim.
Obama's Sharia Czar, Imam Mohamed Magid, of the Islamic Society of North America is a Muslim .
Advisory Council on Faith-Based Neighborhood Partnerships, Eboo Patel, is a Muslim .
Nancy Pelosi announced she will appoint Rep Andre Carson, D-Ind, a Muslim , as the first Muslim lawmaker on the House of Representatives Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, of all things! It would make Carson the first Muslim to serve on the committee that receives intelligence on the threat of Islamic militants in the Middle East! He has he suggested that U.S. schools should be modeled after Islamic madrassas, where education is based on the Quran!!!

Last but not least, our closet Muslim himself, Barack Hussein Obama.
It's questionable if Obama ever officially took the oath of office when he was sworn in. He did not repeat the oath properly to defend our nation and our Constitution. Later the Democrats claimed he was given the oath again, in private. Yeah, right.
CIA director John Brennan took his oath on a copy of the Constitution, not a Bible??
Valarie Jarret wrote her college thesis on how she wanted to change America into a Muslim friendly nation and she is a Obama top advisor!
Congressman, Keith Ellison took his oath on a copy of the Qur'an, NOT the Bible!
Conservative Congresswoman Michele Bachman, R-MN, was vilified and verbally tarred and feathered by Democrats when she voiced her concern about Muslims taking over our government!
Considering all these appointments, it would explain why Obama and his minions are systematically destroying our nation, supporting radical Muslim groups worldwide, opening our southern border, and turning a blind eye to the genocide being perpetrated on Christians all over Africa and the Middle East!
The more damage Obama does, the more arrogant he's become!
Our nation and our government has been infiltrated by people who want to destroy us! It can only get worse!
In his book Obama said, "if it comes down to it, I will side with the Muslims".

If you fail to pass this one on, there's something wrong……somewhere!
Common sense doesn't grow in everyone's garden!