Same sex marriage - Yes or No?

[DB008]

From my limited observations at work :
The younger generation is voting - yes
The older generation is voting - no

 

[grah33]

If Christians all follow the moral teachings of Jesus, the world would be doing alright. Just that in addition to those moral philosophies, there's a bunch of magic and voodoo too that's pretty neat to listen and follow... that and it's not easy being good or moral, hence the "vile maxim of the masters of mankind: all for ourselves and nothing for anybody else."

.

Free health care e.g. tonnes of religious hospitals.

The smashing thing I said is just a bit of an intuitive thought in some minds. A bit of like “ we reap what we sow”. Or the Church is supposed to be salt of the earth and if it loses its taste it gets trodden on. Something like that. They say when living conditions go down the number of Christians goes up fast. If there is a God, then deviating from perfect values would result in all kinds of problems in society. Interestingly enough number of Australians that believe in God is much higher than what I thought.

Regards what you were saying, yeah some are just good by nature I would think. But then there is a minority that literally follows JC's way of life to the letter. I've noticed a lot of these found the Christian faith as a result of experiencing some kind of suffering or problems. They also think it's an easier life to live than before. One of the Christian tenants is to never worry about anything.

Thinking of ancient Rome I don't believe they were crazy. Perhaps they genuinely did feel discriminated against by the Christians (as is happening now), and so put them into prisons/ the lions etc. You can imagine this sexually monogamous group making everyone else feel really guilty by their new way of life.

Spoke to a guy the other day who goes to the marriage coalition meetings. Apparently this former gay guy who used to go to the LGBTI meetings 25 years ago showed up and pretty much went on to say that their goal is the same as we stated here. To break down the whole system through the marriage law. To force this new way of life on everyone, and to even have a bit of a special status would u believe. They also want to lower age of consent, 13 or something. I guess it's about providing what they believe are essential skills to people. Imv it will lead to sexual problems.

Some of us here are probably already considering what we might be posting in the future...

 

[Smurf1976]

From my limited observations at work :
The younger generation is voting - yes
The older generation is voting - no

Saw a news item today based on a survey of survey voting intentions

Stronger support for the "yes" case from women than from men.

By state the strongest support for the "yes" case is in Vic followed equally by WA and Tas. Next comes Qld and SA (equal) with the least support in NSW.

 

[Smurf1976]

It's a strange situation where, in some states at least, heterosexual couples find themselves involuntarily as good as married in the eyes of the law when they have consciously chosen to not formally marry and hardly a word is said. Meanwhile homosexual couples who would choose to marry are the subject of one of the most polarising and publicly engaging debates Australia has seen in many years.

Personally I think there are more important issues to worry about even if we confine it to the subject of personal relationships.

To pick one issue that I see as a huge problem, how many Australians are currently suffering physical, psychological or financial abuse on an ongoing basis due to the actions of a partner, family or anyone else able to exert dominance?

I don't know the answer to that question but I expect it would be a shockingly high figure.

That's not a subject directly related to gay marriage but it's related to human relationships of all forms. There's an awful lot of bullies out there and reality is they'll always seek a victim to dominate so at any given time there's likely to be someone suffering.

Gay marriage is an issue but it's taking up too much time meanwhile there's so many other things needing to be addressed.

 

[luutzu]

Free health care e.g. tonnes of religious hospitals.

The smashing thing I said is just a bit of an intuitive thought in some minds. A bit of like “ we reap what we sow”. Or the Church is supposed to be salt of the earth and if it loses its taste it gets trodden on. Something like that. They say when living conditions go down the number of Christians goes up fast. If there is a God, then deviating from perfect values would result in all kinds of problems in society. Interestingly enough number of Australians that believe in God is much higher than what I thought.

Regards what you were saying, yeah some are just good by nature I would think. But then there is a minority that literally follows JC's way of life to the letter. I've noticed a lot of these found the Christian faith as a result of experiencing some kind of suffering or problems. They also think it's an easier life to live than before. One of the Christian tenants is to never worry about anything.

Thinking of ancient Rome I don't believe they were crazy. Perhaps they genuinely did feel discriminated against by the Christians (as is happening now), and so put them into prisons/ the lions etc. You can imagine this sexually monogamous group making everyone else feel really guilty by their new way of life.

Spoke to a guy the other day who goes to the marriage coalition meetings. Apparently this former gay guy who used to go to the LGBTI meetings 25 years ago showed up and pretty much went on to say that their goal is the same as we stated here. To break down the whole system through the marriage law. To force this new way of life on everyone, and to even have a bit of a special status would u believe. They also want to lower age of consent, 13 or something. I guess it's about providing what they believe are essential skills to people. Imv it will lead to sexual problems.

Some of us here are probably already considering what we might be posting in the future...

Charities, religious schools and hospitals... They're not uniquely Christian things. Heck, even the Muslims does charity Have you seen what Trump did with his charity? His daughter and wife also have charities "for women" to be proud and entrepreneurial. I guess the first rule of Trump's charity is knowing the tax code.

I know, it's not fair... I don't mean to belittle or poke fund at Christian or any religious charity. They do seem to want to do good work. Still, not a "Christian thing", not a thing that came about because of Jesus.

Christianity as a state religion though, like all religion that became a state orthodoxy... they're put there because they served the state and its ruling elite. That kind of organisational structure is very different to the normal Christian citizen who aren't ruling anything. Just going to Church, pray for good health and world peace.


In the olden days, the Pope and Cardinals rule the Christian empire. Nowadays they're just hanging around like old relics that now and then prove itself useful to the state. On such occasions as a State Funeral and a good background to declare war against evil to protect our civilisation and stuff. That and a religious politician is assumed to be a pious and a good person... so why not.


Ancient Rome... From the little I know of it, the Romans feed the Christians to the lions for kicks, then kicks them around when the lions from North Africa were all extinct.

That happened all the way up until Constantine find Jesus useful, used his name and so united the two halves of old Rome. Then once Constantine made Christianity a state religion - with himself as Jesus' best buddy, a lost Disciple if you will... Christians starts to do what anyone with God, Emperor and plenty of arms on their side: free the savages from their idiotic sects and barbarism

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Yea, I think it's also true that when living conditions goes down, people get more religious (more Christian in the West, more Muslims in the Arab world)...

But I don't think it's because they left God and his teachings so their life is a bit messed up. Possibly they ran out of money, have too much money, or their dictator didn't take proper order and goes rouge.

When you're between a rock and a hard place but have no dollars to buy a crowbar, who else do you turn to to get some sanity back? God's free... then if you accept God while in trouble and troubles passes, you repay Him through his subsidiaries; if God didn't help in time... well it's meant to be.

I don't know about the gay agenda man. Even Penny Wong wouldn't want to be legally married.

I guess people are free to speak, just when they say things that's one of those wtf things... others are also free to go wtf? Then a debate either happen, after which no one learn anything but being more convinced of their beliefs.

 

[notting]

Even Penny Wong wouldn't want to be legally married.

LOL
Not even Julia Gillard. Now there's a smart chick. Maybe in the closet but.

 

[qldfrog]

Looks to me that some people can't accept YES as a possible answer.

Did you mean NO, cause I think some people (well represented in our propaganda media) can't accept NO as a possible answer either.

 

[SirRumpole]

Did you mean NO, cause I think some people (well represented in our propaganda media) can't accept NO as a possible answer either.

There have been 18 parliamentary votes of NO, and they haven't been accepted.

 

[basilio]

There have been 18 parliamentary votes of NO, and they haven't been accepted.

How long/how many parliamentary votes did it take to get
Male Voting rights ?
Women Voting rights?
Home Rule for Ireland ?
Repeal of criminal laws against (male) homesexuals ?
Abortion law reform ?

It takes time, conversation and persuasive debate to make progress.

 

[SirRumpole]

How long/how many parliamentary votes did it take to get
Male Voting rights ?
Women Voting rights?
Home Rule for Ireland ?
Repeal of criminal laws against (male) homesexuals ?
Abortion law reform ?

It takes time, conversation and persuasive debate to make progress.

In other words, you won't accept anything apart from your own preconceived ideas, so given that, the No case has every right to vote how they want in Parliament regardless of how the population vote ?

 

[Tisme]

There was an article over the last few days about a gay man killing his man friend. Does that stat go into the hate gay murders file or is there a separate one just for LGBtxyz?

 

[Tisme]

Interesting read:

http://marriage.greekorthodox.org.au/2017/08/same-sex-marriage-ten-years-on-lessons-from-canada/

The Public Discourse: The Witherspoon Institute

Would recognising same-sex relationships as marriages be much of a game-changer? What impact, if any, would it have on the public conception of marriage or the state of a nation’s marriage culture?

...............http://marriage.greekorthodox.org.au/2017/08/same-sex-marriage-ten-years-on-lessons-from-canada/

 

[Tisme]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-...fter-refusing-gay-marriage-cake-order/6482280

Gay rights activist Gareth Lee took Ashers Baking Company in Belfast to court in a civil action after it cancelled his order for a cake with the slogan "support gay marriage" on it.

The firm initially accepted the order but later contacted Mr Lee to cancel it and refund his money.

Mr Lee told a court hearing over three days in March that the bakery's refusal made him feel "unworthy" and "a lesser person".

 

[basilio]

In other words, you won't accept anything apart from your own preconceived ideas, so given that, the No case has every right to vote how they want in Parliament regardless of how the population vote ?

A few points

1) I don't have preconcieved ideas. I can watch the changes in my views over decades as personal experience and exposure to different points of view causes me to reassess my views.
2) I used the examples of a number of different social and political movements to show the obvious -entrenched positions do not move quickly given that the people with that power rarely walk away from an advantageous situation.
3) If Parliament did have a free conscience vote of same sex marriage it would now be a done deal. There are now sufficent politicans and community leaders on all sides of politics who are either gay, have gay children or friends or employ many gay people to accept the concept of marriage equality.

Of course there are still people who quietly or stridently think same sex marriage is the Road to Peridition. That is their view.

 

[qldfrog]

From my limited observations at work :
The younger generation is voting - yes
The older generation is voting - no

From my own point of view the gullible vote yes, 'cause they have been told to, in the same way that immigration is good, the Russians elected Trump and Clinton is a Saint;
And Facebook told them to anyway
The other third(at most), is divided, some gay haters maybe, but a lot of religious, or anarchists;
it actually takes some courage to say No just to put a stop to PC and the descend into an Orwellian world

 

[PZ.]

Can't see how YES voters can be gullible when the majority of the conspiracy theories are coming from the NO supporters

 

[wayneL]

Can't see how YES voters can be gullible when the majority of the conspiracy theories are coming from the NO supporters

What conspiracy theories? Oh, you mean the ones that observe the impingements on liberty that have resulted in other countries, the overall leftist agenda of cultural marxism, extreme pc, trigger warnings university echo chambers and Goddam safe placed etc... and think that may just be repeated here?

Damn, where did I leave my ton foil hat?

 

[PZ.]

What conspiracy theories? Oh, you mean the ones that observe the impingements on liberty that have resulted in other countries, the overall leftist agenda of cultural marxism, extreme pc, trigger warnings university echo chambers and Goddam safe placed etc... and think that may just be repeated here?

Yep, those conspiracy theories and thankyou for expressing them so eloquently for all to see.

If you can't find your tin foil hat I'll PM you another one that you can feel free to hand around along with more dire predictions that can squeeze donations from a gullible public.

 

[Tisme]

Can't see how YES voters can be gullible when the majority of the conspiracy theories are coming from the NO supporters

I'm not sure how concern equates to conspiracy.

Just because ~60% of voting population mark their ballots for Liberal or Labor, clearly doesn't mean they are gifting the rest of us with good govt, but they still persist with the same ill informed and naive practice.

A NO vote was one of the ways we could have sent a message to politicians that we value our heritage and want to remain a virtuous, decent society. Obviously 60% of the population don't care for any of that and that's probably in no small part due to the type of people we have allowed to migrate here and who have brought their uncultivated farm animal habits with them.

 

[PZ.]

Care to elaborate what these particular groups are? Can't be Muslims because homosexuality is a cardinal sin.

People voting NO because they are concerned or if it's against their core beliefs is fine with me. What's not fine is the elitist attitude that comes with it. Someone votes YES, therefore they are inferior and are easy targets for mediscare style scare campaigns.

Good Govt comes from keeping the bastards honest.

The population that don't care are the people who don't vote at all.