Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

Is this for real.......I cannot prove otherwise.

What next will these Muslims demand in our Western Society?

They have to be told.


LARRY PICKERING

YOU GOT RID OF THE CARBON TAX TONY
... so now get rid of the Halal Tax

Toasted cheese with a dollop of Vegemite was my favourite late night snack, but I leave off the Vegemite now that it’s owned by the American company MondelezInternational and sports a little “Hal Certified” notice. No worries, my Aussie owned and made Bega cheese still bubbled under the griller while the jug boiled for a strong cup of tea.
That was until I noticed this funny little Arabic hieroglyph on the back of my Bega cheese packet too. Bloody hell, first my Vegemite and now my Bega cheese! No worries, I'm happy with plain toast.
I wasn't game to gothrough the whole fridge or I'd have starved.
Trying to find Aussie tucker on the shelves is hard enough but trying to find tucker that is not Islamically sanctioned is near impossible, and it’s meant to be.
An insidious and illegal protection racket called “Halal Certification” has worked its way through our food chains without us knowing a thing about it.
Australian manufacturers and importers of food and drink are actually paying Islamic halal certifiers up to $30,000 per month for the honour of displaying this littleArabic sign.
So, who are these Islamic bastards who are adding to my grocery bill? Well, the "Indonesian Council of Ulama", MUI, (which also orders Fatwa rulings) is the Mafia style Islamic body organising the multi-million dollar racket that forces Australian companies to pay outrageous amounts to have their food certified as halal.
One major Aussie meat processor, who refused to be identified, claimed he had been told to pay $27,000 a month for halal certification, which of course was expected to bepassed on to the consumer.
Mr Stephen Kelly, anexecutive of the Japanese-owned Nippon Meat Packers in Queensland, said last year that MUI had banned his abattoirs from selling meat into Indonesia because he had dealt with MUI’s opposition for certification.
MUI’s opposition is the Australian certifier, "Halal Food Services" (AHFS), who had undercut MUI’s price for certification and the Indonesian company apparently calls the tune when it comes to blackmailing Australian food companies.
From what I can discover there are halal certifiers in all countries with South East Asia being regulated from Indonesia and the governing body’s world headquarters are encamped in Saudi Arabia. There are State branch halal authorities operating in Australia
Islamic websites claim all money (estimated in the billions) goes to building Islamic schools but where it actually goes after leaving Australia I shudder to guess.
The funny thing is a couple of years ago Aussie shoppers woke up to the scam and began avoiding halal certified food, so all these little Arabic motifs started disappearing.
Thinking this might lead to some sort of Fatwa I called a few food manufacturers. None was prepared to speak to me, except Arnott’s, who said they were attempting to resist some "standover tactics".
One distributor, who asked not to be named, was prepared to offer an opinion: “They really don’t care if the halal sign is there or not, they only insist it’s on the exported product and as long as the supplier pays the monthly fee everything’s sweet. If they refuse to pay, then their exports are at risk.”
Local clerics arrange for Muslims to flood Aussie food processors with intimidating letters and phone calls threatening that unless they pay fees to become halal certified, some, “pretty bad stuff will happen”.
When contacted last year over the scam, the Federal Department of Agriculture said it had, “no power over religious certifiers”. But another spokesman said, and get this one:
"The Australian Government values our close relationship with MUI and will continue to worktogether with them to overcome issues that affect the mutually beneficial trade in red meat to Indonesia."
I have asked the Dept of Agriculture if they have an update on their response to halal certification, but am yet to receive a reply. I have also left phone messages with BarnabyJoyce but it seems halal certification is an uncomfortable subject.
An Islamic Council response?
"Hope this will clear the misconception of Halal issue for all intent and purpose.
"The Halal Food Authority promotes animal welfare, adherence to food safety, food hygiene and quality in compliance with the teachings of the Islamic jurisprudence and faith." Blah blah blah, as soon as got to the animal welfare bit I knew it was a load of Islamic camel droppings.
So it’s up to you Tony, no new legislation needed, no Senate ****, just an appreciation of what is already thoroughly illegal and what is hurting Australian shoppers. Of course it may also hurt relations with our lovely Islamic friends.
Or is that the real problem?

noco said:

Well, the "Indonesian Council of Ulama", MUI, (which also orders Fatwa rulings) is the Mafia style Islamic body organising the multi-million dollar racket that forces Australian companies to pay outrageous amounts to have their food certified as halal.

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How are they "forcing" people to apply for this certification ?

If companies don't want the certification they don't have to have it.

More mindless rhetoric from Pickering.

noco said:

Is this for real.......I cannot prove otherwise.

What next will these Muslims demand in our Western Society?

They have to be told.

LARRY PICKERING

YOU GOT RID OF THE CARBON TAX TONY
... so now get rid of the Halal Tax

Click to expand...

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what Larry Pickering is cr@pping on about.
When he's on a roll, he makes even Bolt appear moderate.

Just read this for a bit of balance: http://www.altmedia.net.au/a-demagogue-creeps-out-from-under-his-rock/98256

orr said:

As Christopher Hitchens goes to great pains to explain, in about half an hour of your time you'll hear a utter demolition... not evil Just Stupid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCHHfBeu0QE

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Thanks for posting this Orr. Hitchens is better known for his masterful demolition of Christian theology, dogma and the various demagogues who promote it, but he has also engaged in many debates with Muslims and skillfully demolished them and the Islamic tradition as well. The following debate with Tariq Ramadan is one such example. The whole debate is interesting but the opening 10 or so minutes from Hitchens is just excellent oratory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CGFMwtJTyE

Not only is Islam inherently evil in itself by almost any definition of the term, it inspires evil in others on a scale that dwarfs rival belief systems in imaginary celestial dictators. Islam's all encompassing vision for human society is a totalitarian's paradise where even seemingly benign statements can earn one a death sentence and where religious leaders rule with abject tyranny.

I have encountered many nice, well mannered Muslims and had pleasant conversations with them. However, I am under no illusion that underneath this calm, pleasant demeanor many of them would like to see Islamic Law imposed on everyone and Islam become the dominant religion of the land. They represent a kind of Trojan horse that if ignored, will undermine many of the freedoms we now enjoy (this erosion of freedoms has already occurred due to the terrorist threat). Islamic democracy is more than just an oxymoron, they are incompatible ideas and apologists for this religion need to clearly understand this.

bellenuit said:

The letter below is a response from a Muslim lady to the Ben Affleck's ignorant interjection in the "Real Time with Bill Maher" show when Bill and Sam Harris were making very pertinent points about "Liberal's" double standards when it comes to the bad side of Islam, that part of Islam as a religion (not Muslims as people) that is inherently evil. First is a video of the relevant segment:


An open letter to Ben Affleck

Dear Ben,

I am writing to you today as a woman who was born and raised in Islam. I saw your discussion with Bill Maher and Sam Harris, and I must say you did me a great disservice that day. Your heart was in the right place, of course, and it was lovely of you to step up and defend ‘my people’.

What you really did though, perhaps inadvertently, was silence a conversation that never gets started. Two people attempted to begin a dialogue and you wouldn’t even listen. Why should any set of ideas be above criticism, Ben?

Why are Muslims being ‘preserved’ in some time capsule of centuries gone by? Why is it okay that we continue to live in a world where our women are compared to candy waiting to be consumed? Why is it okay for women of the rest of the world to fight for freedom and equality while we are told to cover our shameful bodies? Can’t you see that we are being held back from joining this elite club known as the 21st century?

Noble liberals like yourself always stand up for the misrepresented Muslims and stand against the Islamophobes, which is great but who stands in my corner and for the others who feel oppressed by the religion? Every time we raise our voices, one of us is killed or threatened. I am a blogger and illustrator, no threat to anyone, Ben, except for those afraid of words and drawings. I want the freedom to express myself without the very real fear that I might be killed for it. Is that too much to ask?

When I wrote a children’s book that carried a message of diversity and inclusivity for everyone, my life changed. My book, ‘My Chacha (uncle) is Gay’ has the innocent anti-homophobia message, ‘Love belongs to everyone’. This was not palatable to many of my Muslim brothers and sisters.

Since that project I have been declared an ‘enemy of God’ and deemed worthy of death. All because I want to help create a world where South Asian children too can have their stories told, so they too can know that love comes in all forms, and that that’s okay. My Muslim brothers and sisters were hit hard by this work because it addresses the issue of homophobia within our own community. It is not something they can pass off as ‘Western’ immorality. Just like they deny that any issues exist within the doctrine of Islam, many deny that homosexuality exists amongst good, ‘moral’ Muslims. Just like that, millions of people’s existence is denied. Please do not defend people who think this way, and let me tell you Ben, many ‘good’ Muslims do think this way.

What you did by screaming ‘racist!’ was shut down a conversation that many of us have been waiting to have. You helped those who wish to deny there are issues, deny them. You became an instant hero, a defender of Islam. It’s kind, it really is. I understand because I too am plagued and affected by the issues brought about by actual Islamophobia. I have a Muslim name and brown skin, my peaceful relatives have been pushed in the subway and called ‘terrorist’ for no reason.

I get that.

We must distinguish critiquing an ideology from being hateful towards a group of people. And for this reason I think that tackling the issues within Islam should be two-pronged. They must be brought up, but simultaneously we should stress that blame for these issues cannot be placed on individuals.

In the interest of being politically correct and ‘liberal’, we silence the voices of millions. I am turning to you because you were instrumental in starting this conversation. Those of us who want reform are muted by extremists, as well as the liberals who betray us in the name of multiculturalism.

ISIS paints a horrific picture, so I understand the knee-jerk reaction to deny any link. Most Muslims choose to interpret scripture in a peaceful way, but that doesn’t mean the raw material isn’t there for those who choose the path of violence. That material must be addressed.

Can we talk about the blatant double standards and violation of human rights, for a second? Mosques are built throughout western countries, usually without much issue. But in the hub of Islam, the heart of Islam, Saudi Arabia, no one but Muslims are allowed to officially practice their faith. There are no churches, temples or synagogues because Saudi Arabia will not permit any non-Muslim place of worship to exist. Who will hold them accountable for such injustice if we hush everyone who speaks out against Islam?

What is so wrong with wanting to step into the current century? There should be no shame. There is no denying that violence, misogyny and homophobia exist in all religious texts, but Islam is the only religion that is adhered to so literally, to this day.

In your culture you have the luxury of calling such literalists “crazies”, like the Westboro Baptist Church, for example. In my culture, such values are upheld by more people than we realise. Many will try to deny it, but please hear me when I say that these are not fringe values. It is apparent in the lacking numbers of Muslims willing to speak out against the archaic Shariah law. The punishment for blasphemy and apostasy, etc, are tools of oppression. Why are they not addressed even by the peaceful folk who “aren’t fanatical, who just want to have some sandwiches and pray five times a day? Where are the Muslim protestors against blasphemy laws/apostasy? Where are the Muslims who take a stand against harsh interpretation of Shariah? These sandwich-eating peaceful folk do not defend those suffering in the name of Islam, Ben, and therein lies our problem.

Maybe the points Maher and Harris were trying to make are more easily digested when coming from within the community, I can appreciate that. That is why I am writing to you, as someone who has personally been hurt by the lack of acknowledgement of these issues.

If Muslims do not critique their own atrocities, then people on the outside will and their message will not be listened to simply because of who they are. It’s a vicious cycle, one that can only break if indeed, like Harris said, true reformers are empowered.

I ask you and anyone reading this to make an effort to seek out reformers from within our community, and support them in any way you can.

If I were allowed to meet a man that is not my father, brother or husband unchaperoned, I would have loved to discuss this over drinks (which I am also not allowed to have) with you. So, you see, things must change.

Sincerely,

Eiynah

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2014/10/25/comment/an-open-letter-to-ben-affleck/

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Bill Maher is a Liberal? He's a racist that's what he is. During the recent "operation" in Gaza I heard him asked rhetorically how many Nobel laureates are Muslims or Arabs? How many are Jewish? Practically saying Muslims are idiots and Jews are all intelligent and enlightened people. And if he believe in God, he would have said they are God's chosen people too.

Have you ever criticised anyone? How did they take it? Have you ever swear and disrespect people's kids, or spouse or parents? They took it well? But you somehow think they should be OK with you making fun of their God, their Creator, the being they pray to 5 times a day? Are you insane?

Try and criticise any faith, any religion, try doing that to the followers' face and I bet you most often you will be booed and get ignored... and more than likely there's one or two with anger issue who will beat you to a pulp.

All religions are nuts... and the only reason "we" can criticise the Christian/Jewish God (as opposed to the same being called Allah) is because most of these critics live in states that have a thing call the separation of Church and State, have laws that forbid people from being executed or imprisoned for making free speeches.

How are women treated by the nobel Christian societies? From memory, women were considered the property of their father, then their husband... and considered so until around the 1900s; When were women allowed to vote in our fair democracies? Since its inception or less than 100 years ago? How about women in the workforce? Or women wearing bikinis? I think women were only allowed to play Baseball in the US during WW2 - mainly because the men are all away fighting.

How about "the gays"? Only a handful of states in the US just recently recognise same sex marriage; In Australia, Senator Shirley Wong - a Lesbian - was forced to say that she, even though she is a homosexual, does not believe marriage and its privileges be extended to people like herself. How sick is our moral value when it is political suicide to say that maybe the country I serve, whose high office I hold, whose laws I debate and make... that country and that people should treat me less because of who I love and choose to marry.

So get off your high horse and see things for what they are. By all mean criticise Islam and anything and anyone else... just when you do, apply the same sharp wit and morality to your own faith... just to be fair.. that's what a Liberal would do.

SirRumpole said:

How are they "forcing" people to apply for this certification ?

If companies don't want the certification they don't have to have it.

More mindless rhetoric from Pickering.

Click to expand...

Australian manufacturers and importers of food and drink are actually paying Islamic halal certifiers up to $30,000 per month for the honour of displaying this littleArabic sign.
So, who are these Islamic bastards who are adding to my grocery bill? Well, the "Indonesian Council of Ulama", MUI, (which also orders Fatwa rulings) is the Mafia style Islamic body organising the multi-million dollar racket that forces Australian companies to pay outrageous amounts to have their food certified as halal.
One major Aussie meat processor, who refused to be identified, claimed he had been told to pay $27,000 a month for halal certification, which of course was expected to bepassed on to the consumer.
Mr Stephen Kelly, anexecutive of the Japanese-owned Nippon Meat Packers in Queensland, said last year that MUI had banned his abattoirs from selling meat into Indonesia because he had dealt with MUI’s opposition for certification.
MUI’s opposition is the Australian certifier, "Halal Food Services" (AHFS), who had undercut MUI’s price for certification and the Indonesian company apparently calls the tune when it comes to blackmailing Australian food companies.
From what I can discover there are halal certifiers in all countries with South East Asia being regulated from Indonesia and the governing body’s world headquarters are encamped in Saudi Arabia. There are State branch halal authorities operating in Australia
Islamic websites claim all money (estimated in the billions) goes to building Islamic schools but where it actually goes after leaving Australia I shudder to guess.
The funny thing is a couple of years ago Aussie shoppers woke up to the scam and began avoiding halal certified food, so all these little Arabic motifs started disappearing.
Thinking this might lead to some sort of Fatwa I called a few food manufacturers. None was prepared to speak to me, except Arnott’s, who said they were attempting to resist some "standover tactics".
One distributor, who asked not to be named, was prepared to offer an opinion: “They really don’t care if the halal sign is there or not, they only insist it’s on the exported product and as long as the supplier pays the monthly fee everything’s sweet. If they refuse to pay, then their exports are at risk.”
Local clerics arrange for Muslims to flood Aussie food processors with intimidating letters and phone calls threatening that unless they pay fees to become halal certified, some, “pretty bad stuff will happen”.
When contacted last year over the scam, the Federal Department of Agriculture said it had, “no power over religious certifiers”. But another spokesman said, and get this one:


If that is not applying force, I don't know what else you would call it.

noco said:

Australian manufacturers and importers of food and drink are actually paying Islamic halal certifiers up to $30,000 per month for the honour of displaying this littleArabic sign.
So, who are these Islamic bastards who are adding to my grocery bill? Well, the "Indonesian Council of Ulama", MUI, (which also orders Fatwa rulings) is the Mafia style Islamic body organising the multi-million dollar racket that forces Australian companies to pay outrageous amounts to have their food certified as halal.
One major Aussie meat processor, who refused to be identified, claimed he had been told to pay $27,000 a month for halal certification, which of course was expected to bepassed on to the consumer.
Mr Stephen Kelly, anexecutive of the Japanese-owned Nippon Meat Packers in Queensland, said last year that MUI had banned his abattoirs from selling meat into Indonesia because he had dealt with MUI’s opposition for certification.
MUI’s opposition is the Australian certifier, "Halal Food Services" (AHFS), who had undercut MUI’s price for certification and the Indonesian company apparently calls the tune when it comes to blackmailing Australian food companies.
From what I can discover there are halal certifiers in all countries with South East Asia being regulated from Indonesia and the governing body’s world headquarters are encamped in Saudi Arabia. There are State branch halal authorities operating in Australia
Islamic websites claim all money (estimated in the billions) goes to building Islamic schools but where it actually goes after leaving Australia I shudder to guess.
The funny thing is a couple of years ago Aussie shoppers woke up to the scam and began avoiding halal certified food, so all these little Arabic motifs started disappearing.
Thinking this might lead to some sort of Fatwa I called a few food manufacturers. None was prepared to speak to me, except Arnott’s, who said they were attempting to resist some "standover tactics".
One distributor, who asked not to be named, was prepared to offer an opinion: “They really don’t care if the halal sign is there or not, they only insist it’s on the exported product and as long as the supplier pays the monthly fee everything’s sweet. If they refuse to pay, then their exports are at risk.”
Local clerics arrange for Muslims to flood Aussie food processors with intimidating letters and phone calls threatening that unless they pay fees to become halal certified, some, “pretty bad stuff will happen”.
When contacted last year over the scam, the Federal Department of Agriculture said it had, “no power over religious certifiers”. But another spokesman said, and get this one:


If that is not applying force, I don't know what else you would call it.

Click to expand...

I think that's just capitalism at work. See, they're not so different.

FxTrader said:

Thanks for posting this Orr. Hitchens is better known for his masterful demolition of Christian theology, dogma and the various demagogues who promote it, but he has also engaged in many debates with Muslims and skillfully demolished them and the Islamic tradition as well. The following debate with Tariq Ramadan is one such example. The whole debate is interesting but the opening 10 or so minutes from Hitchens is just excellent oratory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CGFMwtJTyE

Not only is Islam inherently evil in itself by almost any definition of the term, it inspires evil in others on a scale that dwarfs rival belief systems in imaginary celestial dictators. Islam's all encompassing vision for human society is a totalitarian's paradise where even seemingly benign statements can earn one a death sentence and where religious leaders rule with abject tyranny.

I have encountered many nice, well mannered Muslims and had pleasant conversations with them. However, I am under no illusion that underneath this calm, pleasant demeanor many of them would like to see Islamic Law imposed on everyone and Islam become the dominant religion of the land. They represent a kind of Trojan horse that if ignored, will undermine many of the freedoms we now enjoy (this erosion of freedoms has already occurred due to the terrorist threat). Islamic democracy is more than just an oxymoron, they are incompatible ideas and apologists for this religion need to clearly understand this.

Click to expand...

Seriously, blaming other people for our deeds is a bit childish... even my four year old know better.
Those evil terrorists! Forcing my Captain to systematically remove my privacy, erode my freedom!
Those terrorist! Wearing scary black masks, controlling my oil fields and then forcing me to have to send in the jets and drop the bombs and waste $500 million at moderate bombing rates for a year... uuurgggg!!

I don't feel so bad now not making small talks and polite conversation at work if I could help it.

luutzu said:

Seriously, blaming other people for our deeds is a bit childish... even my four year old know better. Those evil terrorists! Forcing my Captain to systematically remove my privacy, erode my freedom!
Those terrorist! Wearing scary black masks, controlling my oil fields and then forcing me to have to send in the jets and drop the bombs and waste $500 million at moderate bombing rates for a year... uuurgggg!! I don't feel so bad now not making small talks and polite conversation at work if I could help it.

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It's entirely unclear how such gibberish constitutes a intelligible reply to my post but given your previous posts here a more intelligent and thoughtful reply was expected. Try listening to the debate link posted, perhaps your reply to it will be less dismissive and misdirected. In doing so try to avoid silly straw man arguments.

Do I think the world would be a safer place without brainwashed maniacal Muslims, who view martyrdom to obtain paradise their highest calling in life, finding new ways to butcher people in the name of Allah? Of course.

Has the activity of these religious morons been a causative force in the dilution of freedoms and increase in surveillance activity by governments? Absolutely.

Is the threat overstated? Only if you mistakenly think Islam is really a religion of peace with no goal toward world wide dominion. I don't.

FxTrader said:

It's entirely unclear how such gibberish constitutes a intelligible reply to my post but given your previous posts here a more intelligent and thoughtful reply was expected. Try listening to the debate link posted, perhaps your reply to it will be less dismissive and misdirected. In doing so try to avoid silly straw man arguments.

Do I think the world would be a safer place without brainwashed maniacal Muslims, who view martyrdom to obtain paradise their highest calling in life, finding new ways to butcher people in the name of Allah? Of course.

Has the activity of these religious morons been a causative force in the dilution of freedoms and increase in surveillance activity by governments? Absolutely.

Is the threat overstated? Only if you mistakenly think Islam is really a religion of peace with no goal toward world wide dominion. I don't.

Click to expand...

Yea, what Hitchen said was pure logic and oratorical excellence. Give me a break man.

Name me one religion that doesn't control its followers' entire life and action. I heard that Judaism cut little boys' foreskin in some ceremony; Christianity deemed all its followers as sinners, even newborns whose only sin might be to wake their parents up every couple hours... and of course we all know the insanity of Islam, what with forcing its followers to pray at 5AM each day?

I love how Hitchen said that all the evils and crimes of the Christian states, with its Christian Emperors - except France or something... how all these empires and their evil ways like slavery, genocide and colonisation... all that ended after WW1. All except Islam and its empire. That's quite something... you would really have to ignore a whole lot of history and a whole lot of common sense to say stuff like that.

I thought I was rude to think there is no God.

Amazing how something without form or substance can be blamed for all sorts of human behaviours.

Goes to show how willingly humans attach themselves to tribes for comfort and conformity. Even Hitchens tries to garner a following of his own belief system masquerading as temporal and he has many faithful willing to go out and witness those beliefs.

Personally I like the idea of some all powerful entity who can roll some dirt into a planet and tractor beam it into orbit using magnetism, throw some seeds on it, dowse in water and heh presto in six days there's a habitat for nudists. In fact it wasn't too long ago the earth was a deflated disc, then around the medieval times warming started and it popped out into a globe.... for this reason alone the old tall stories found in religious texts became out dated over night...., but still they persist, rallying the not so bright, albeit studious, into more primate stupidness.

How clever do you have to be to read 790k or 77k words? That's about 12 novels or one book a month if you like to take your time. But some people spend everyday for their entire drone existence reading one book, cherry picking snippets to justify their primitive emotional chains that bind them or others. Similarly sized books of Sudoku would be mind shattering to these people it seems.

And who's doing all the innovation, industry and wealth creation while God's troglodytes are out there destroying civilisations for the hell of it.... the USA and China that's who.

Tisme said:

Amazing how something without form or substance can be blamed for all sorts of human behaviours.

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Of course. Most of the time they are just naughty boys.

noco said:

But another spokesman said, and get this one:

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Was there supposed to be something after this ?

luutzu said:

I think that's just capitalism at work. See, they're not so different.

Click to expand...

That just does not make any sense......I really don't know what message you are trying offer.

Tisme said:

Amazing how something without form or substance can be blamed for all sorts of human behaviours.

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Of course the reverse is the case, human invented religious myth and legend taken to seriously can and should be blamed for whacky human behaviours. You can't blame imaginary sky gods for any human behaviour.

Goes to show how willingly humans attach themselves to tribes for comfort and conformity. Even Hitchens tries to garner a following of his own belief system masquerading as temporal and he has many faithful willing to go out and witness those beliefs.

Click to expand...

That you would seriously suggest that Hitches (a harsh critic of religious myth) had a "belief system" on par with religious drones is absurd - a "non-belief" system perhaps. Hitchens views were "temporal" in nature, certainly nothing masquerading as knowledge of the eternal. While I have a deep respect for many of his well articulated and researched views and arguments (not all), I certainly don't worship or deify him and I seriously doubt many do. Implying that Hitchens is something akin to a religious prophet and those who share his views on poisonous religious myth as "faithful" sheep, is insulting rhetorical excrement.

SirRumpole said:

Was there supposed to be something after this ?

Click to expand...

If you had read my full post # 21 you would have read all about it.

FxTrader said:

Implying that Hitchens is something akin to a religious prophet and those who share his views on poisonous religious myth as "faithful" sheep, is insulting rhetorical excrement.

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As insulting as questioning another's beliefs and opinions?

Tisme said:

As insulting as questioning another's beliefs and opinions?

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What a pathetic retort, as if the very act of questioning belief in religious myth is inherently an insult. The more extreme form of such reasoning leads to a justification for killing cartoonists for insulting the prophet or ordering a fatwa against the author of a book of fiction. This kind of false victimization is frequently deployed by the religious and their fearful apologists, don't question bad ideas or things like the existence of fictional deities because you may cause offense and thus motivate a violent response.

Damn those free socities with offensive ideas like free speech and the open expression of critical, rational thought, heretics! Beliefs and opinions that are poisonous to human society must be challenged and if that leads to some duped relegious drones taking offense then so be it.

noco said:

That just does not make any sense......I really don't know what message you are trying offer.

Click to expand...

What they're doing is what any capitalist would do - use the power you've established and squeeze what you can out of those that need your services/goods.

Woolworths and Coles aren't very nice to the farmers and the suppliers - there's a case against Coles at the ACCC right now I read. Something about forcing suppliers to pay extra because the goods were sold but not at the margin Coles was expecting, so pay up or else.

Then there's a Buddhist temple I know well that charges extra if you want an image of your beloved closer to Buddha - the closer to his statue, the more it will cost. They also have a pagoda - paid for from donations - where the ashes of the deceased are kept, and again, the higher up the pagoda you want your beloved, the more it will cost.

Then there's what Norman Finkelstein called the Holocaust industry that did a shake down on the Swiss banks and got some billions in compensation for Holocaust survivors who lost their money to the Swiss banks - apparently those rich Jewish people didn't have the sense to take out their money and buy a few seats on the next plane or boat out of Germany and Nazi Europe... and those billions? Only some 20 million goes to the survivors.

Then there's the Pope back then selling forgiveness or something... that if you're rich enough, you can buy forgiveness for sins and be closer to God. Then there's the more modern examples of the Church having billions in their trust accounts, spending millions on high end properties all over the world... and their world is one without poverty or the poor and the hungry?

I heard from a recent documentary that the Italian Mafia wanted Pope Francis gone because of the reforms he instituted - opening the books on the Vatican banks and donations... thus making it harder to launder money.

As Pixel and Tisme said in their posts, people often just do what they do and grab whatever convincing symbolism they can get away with to further that purpose. So if you want to criticise anyone, let alone 1.4 or so billion people, at least be honest about the way you do it... else you'd just be preaching to the choir as they say, and while it makes you feel good, it also make you and your fellow idiots.

luutzu said:

What they're doing is what any capitalist would do - use the power you've established and squeeze what you can out of those that need your services/goods.

Woolworths and Coles aren't very nice to the farmers and the suppliers - there's a case against Coles at the ACCC right now I read. Something about forcing suppliers to pay extra because the goods were sold but not at the margin Coles was expecting, so pay up or else.

Then there's a Buddhist temple I know well that charges extra if you want an image of your beloved closer to Buddha - the closer to his statue, the more it will cost. They also have a pagoda - paid for from donations - where the ashes of the deceased are kept, and again, the higher up the pagoda you want your beloved, the more it will cost.

Then there's what Norman Finkelstein called the Holocaust industry that did a shake down on the Swiss banks and got some billions in compensation for Holocaust survivors who lost their money to the Swiss banks - apparently those rich Jewish people didn't have the sense to take out their money and buy a few seats on the next plane or boat out of Germany and Nazi Europe... and those billions? Only some 20 million goes to the survivors.

Then there's the Pope back then selling forgiveness or something... that if you're rich enough, you can buy forgiveness for sins and be closer to God. Then there's the more modern examples of the Church having billions in their trust accounts, spending millions on high end properties all over the world... and their world is one without poverty or the poor and the hungry?

I heard from a recent documentary that the Italian Mafia wanted Pope Francis gone because of the reforms he instituted - opening the books on the Vatican banks and donations... thus making it harder to launder money.

As Pixel and Tisme said in their posts, people often just do what they do and grab whatever convincing symbolism they can get away with to further that purpose. So if you want to criticise anyone, let alone 1.4 or so billion people, at least be honest about the way you do it... else you'd just be preaching to the choir as they say, and while it makes you feel good, it also make you and your fellow idiots.

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There is no comparison and you are totally wrong.....there is difference between competitiveness and extortion.