Company tax flat rate vs. individual tax brackets

[SirRumpole]

Why do companies pay a flat rate of tax while individuals have tax brackets ?

Surely a bracketed company tax based on say, ROI would be an effective super profits tax that would apply to all businesses, not just miners ?

[Sorry the title meant to say

Company tax flat rate vs individual tax brackets]

 

[pinkboy]

Yes, lets tax the guts out of companies.

• 
  Income Tax
  Payroll Tax
  Quarterly BAS
  Land Tax

Those are the main taxes companies pay, by no means an exhaustive list. Not so flat rate now is it?


pinkboy

 

[SirRumpole]

Yes, lets tax the guts out of companies.

• 
  Income Tax
  Payroll Tax
  Quarterly BAS
  Land Tax

Those are the main taxes companies pay, by no means an exhaustive list. Not so flat rate now is it?


pinkboy

Apart from the fact that most big companies pay less than 20% in tax anyway.

Hardly "taxing the guts" out of them is it ? And the poor consumer pays income tax, gst, rates and expenses incurred in earning an income (fuel and transpor, parking fees, child care) for which they get no deductions at all.

Cry, cry for businesses.

 

[pinkboy]

Apart from the fact that most big companies pay less than 20% in tax anyway. How? You have quoted a 'flat rate of 30%' net of all business related deductions.

Hardly "taxing the guts" out of them is it ? And the poor consumer pays income tax As do companies....
gst As do companies.....
rates Are not a tax, but companies pay these too, either as they own their freehold, or generally as outgoings to their landlord
and expenses incurred in earning an income (fuel and transport Actually, you get a deduction for this.....
parking fees Cost of living expense.....
, child care) Another cost of living/earning expense......which is subsidised I might add. Also the vast majority paying childcare will be probably receiving some form of family benefit

for which they get no deductions at all.

Cry, cry for businesses. Are the Directors of companies not paying income taxes as well? More like a double dip which has unfortunately been a long term accepted burden of managing your own company.

In red above.

pinkboy

 

[SirRumpole]

In red above.

pinkboy

Companies get a rebate of gst.

Individuals can't get a deduction for travel to and from work expenses

Rates etc, companies get a deduction for

 

[pinkboy]

Companies get a rebate of gst. They get a rebate, but a company that invoices more GST then credits will be paying GST in their BAS.

Individuals can't get a deduction for travel to and from work expenses Move closer to work, work closer to home, commute by cheaper method

Rates etc, companies get a deduction for A deduction yes. It is still $1 spent to save 30c tax.

Sounds like you are having a whinge more about the cost of living than about the amount of tax a company pays. You cant have your cake and eat it too.


pinkboy

 

[SirRumpole]

Sounds like you are having a whinge more about the cost of living than about the amount of tax a company pays. You cant have your cake and eat it too.


pinkboy

No, I'm whinging about companies not paying a fair share of tax. This has been a known problem for many years which even our esteemed Treasurer Sloppy Joe has realised. The revenue problem does not come from the average taxpayer who has very few ways of avoiding tax, it comes from corporations and wealthy individuals using tax dodges. Something has to be done to close these loopholes or we will all be worse off.

 

[Julia]

Surely a bracketed company tax based on say, ROI would be an effective super profits tax that would apply to all businesses, not just miners ?

So as profit increases, so does tax rate?
Sounds like a massive disincentive to me.

 

[pinkboy]

No, I'm whinging about companies not paying a fair share of tax. This has been a known problem for many years which even our esteemed Treasurer Sloppy Joe has realised. The revenue problem does not come from the average taxpayer who has very few ways of avoiding tax, it comes from corporations and wealthy individuals using tax dodges. Something has to be done to close these loopholes or we will all be worse off.

Guess what will happen if you raise company tax? Companies will raise prices, increasing profit margin to cover the extra taxation.....which of course leads to further GST paid by the end consumer.

Raise company tax and you'll have more to whinge about.

What are these loopholes you speak of? High net worth individuals spread their earnings and legitimately lower their taxable income by doing so. Don't think for one second there is some imaginary loophole that only a select few people can access. It costs money to save money.

Joe Hockey has inherited the current system from all treasurers put before him, from both parties. He cant be to blame. He can only do so much to leave his mark for the next person, and by doing so, hopefully for the good at the time.

There will NEVER be a definitive taxation system where one size fits all for forever future generations. Ever changing economies will mean ever changing taxation structure. We have to deal with today, what was decided yesterday, and what we decide today, we will have to deal with tomorrow.


pinkboy

 

[Value Collector]

I think a 30% tax rate is fine, Why should they pay more.

just means less money to be reinvested into growth, or paid out as dividends, which get taxed at the bracket rate anyway.

 

[SirRumpole]

I think a 30% tax rate is fine, Why should they pay more.

Most don't even pay that.

 

[SirRumpole]

So as profit increases, so does tax rate?
Sounds like a massive disincentive to me.

There is a point where companies increase profits by ripping off consumers.

Sounds good to me to provide a disincentive for them doing that.

 

[Value Collector]

Most don't even pay that.

Care to expand on that?

 

[pinkboy]

There is a point where companies increase profits by ripping off consumers.

Sounds good to me to provide a disincentive for them doing that.

Companies are not here to help you get through life ok. Again, sounds like you are using company tax to scape goat your whinge about high cost of living.

Of course its about profit! Why would someone go into business without profit being their number #1 priority for doing so? I get a kick out of a profitable job! How I get that profit is none of any consumers concern, as for large corporations it's the same.

pinkboy

 

[SirRumpole]

Care to expand on that?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-...lian-companies-pay-less-than-10pc-tax/5775870

 

[pinkboy]

Care to expand on that?

I feel SirRumpole is confusing companies paying 30% of their turnover in tax instead of 30% of their net profit.

pinkboy

 

[Value Collector]

There is a point where companies increase profits by ripping off consumers.

Sounds good to me to provide a disincentive for them doing that.

High profit margins is how you encourage new entrants into a market, Why do you think we have an over supply of iron ore now, if the government intervened to subdue profit, the market would still be undersupplied, paying high prices except the government would have just been raping the system.

All that would happen under your theory is that companies that have operated well to the point where they do get higher profit margins, would have the government take it away through taxation.

I would much rather have the company pay 30% tax, keep the bulk of their "super" profits and then let the high profit margin be eroded by the free market as more competitors come into play.

 

[SirRumpole]

I feel SirRumpole is confusing companies paying 30% of their turnover in tax instead of 30% of their net profit.

pinkboy

Thanks, I'm quite aware of the difference between turnover and net profit.

In fact a turnover tax (at say 10%) instead of profit tax could be a better way of collecting taxes from business.

What do you think ?

 

[SirRumpole]

High profit margins is how you encourage new entrants into a market, Why do you think we have an over supply of iron ore now, if the government intervened to subdue profit, the market would still be undersupplied, paying high prices except the government would have just been raping the system.

All that would happen under your theory is that companies that have operated well to the point where they do get higher profit margins, would have the government take it away through taxation.

I would much rather have the company pay 30% tax, keep the bulk of their "super" profits and then let the high profit margin be eroded by the free market as more competitors come into play.

With a market as small as ours the chances of new entrants coming in to high profit margin businesses isn't that great. It's just not worth their while.

Why do we only have four big banks ?

 

[drsmith]

I think Rumpy's a little bored today.