Where is/can Donald Trump take US (sic)?

[noco]

There is little doubt in my mind Obama has tricked Turnbull in Turnbull's desperation to remove asylum seekers from Manus and Nauru.
Perhaps Turnbull should have been more astute and checked to see if Trump approved before accepting Obama's deal.

Latham: Obama has played dreadful role

Former federal Labor leader and now political commentator Mark Latham has told Seven’s Sunrise program that Barack Obama “put a little ticking time bomb in the White House desk”.

“It is very, very important to get the full picture here. Everyone is talking about Trump and Turnbull. What about the third person in this deal, Obama?” Latham said.

2Mark Latham.
2Mark Latham.
“He played a dreadful role in the handover period from Trump selection to the inauguration. And Obama has gone out of his way to put a little ticking time bomb in the White House desk, for Donald Trump, by forcing him to either break his election promise to the American people with this sort of refugee intake not coming into the United States, or for Trump to disappoint the Turnbull government and loosen some of the relations with a longtime ally in Australia.

“So Obama here has played dreadful role in forcing his successor into making an awkward choice between an election promise, a commitment to the American people, or a commitment to Australia…

“The problem for Malcolm Turnbull was, he went along with Obama’s trick. He went along with the trick without ever getting a guarantee from the incoming president, the more important person, that he would be able to honour it.”

Meanwhile former Victorian Liberal premier Jeff Kennett told Sunrise program that “Trump is only reflecting the view that most of us hold”.

Jeff Kennett.
Jeff Kennett.
“When this deal was announced here in Australia, I am quite sure there would not have been one Australian who didn’t ask themselves the question, why has the United States agreed to take our issue? Why? Why have they done it?” he said.

“So I think President Trump is only reflecting the view that most of us hold. We would not take refugees from other parts of the world. So why are they taking our issue?

“We have to deal with this problem ourselves, and have a way of more quickly processing it. I think you will find that this issue, we are not going to see anyone go to America. … The President gave Australia the opportunity and the recognition to be talked to along with Germany and Russia and others, so he had us in his top five, and I don’t know the damage that this is going to do to our relationship but I tell you what, we are not off to a good start.”

Sam Buckingham-Jones

Trump Turnbull phone call on refugee deal
7.50am: Latham: Obama has played dreadful role
theaustralian.com.au

 

[luutzu]

Excellent analysis by Michelle Grattan, I think she is spot on. If Trump does us a favour this time, what will he expect in return down the track ?

Grattan on Friday: Malcolm Turnbull should walk away from refugee deal

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-...-turnbull-walk-away-from-refugee-deal/8238458

Is that Trumbull? Trumbella? Turnball...

Heard our Mal got an earful from el presidente God Emperor Trump too.

We went with the yank into Vietnam and years later its Defence chief couldn't be asked to mention us as an ally. And now this? Have to say, as an Aussie I'm being made to feel real small.

Bush Jr. did gave our Howard a lot of love though. I guess they're trying to tell us that we have to get really excited about following orders.

 

[luutzu]

Of course it is. I know the answer.



Many years ago I recall a guy at uni who was Indian. In those days universities were pretty much white and no one really associated with him (that was the norm). But he was quite a funny guy and I'd sometimes knock about with him in tutes, though not socialize. One day he asks me to a party at his house. I go and am met with maybe 150 Indians crowded into this small house. I was the only white. I didn't like the food, the music, the conversation, the throng of cousins, aunties and uncles. What are you saying, I should have made more of an effort? I know what I like, and it wasn't that.

Maybe the Indians were nervous and can't socialise seeing a White guy in their house. Minds were focused on whether they've nailed down the tea, the diamonds and other collectibles.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Obviously, your common ground was your association at uni. If you didn't like his parties you didn't have to go, but I don't see that as a reason to dump him completely. You could have invited him to a party where he was the only Indian.

What I learned from that and a few other experiences is that cultures are mechanisms of identity, and as such, they seek to dominate and spread their influence. It's a competition and there's just no getting around that fact. A competition for space and resources; a place where if you don't dominate, you're being dominated. It all looks friendly on the surface, but cultures are simple expressions of mass egoic drive.

So getting back onto Trump - he is clearly seeking to promote and maintain Anglo-Celtic culture. He recognizes it's a competition. If we had Ellen Degeneres as President, she would be even more extreme in pushing her culture which is one of female superiority and lesbianism. Like Hillary, she would promote herself as egalitarian, then discriminate against everyone who is different to her. Human nature is pretty ugly. I'm not excusing Trump, but at least he is up front about what he's doing.

 

[luutzu]

What I learned from that and a few other experiences is that cultures are mechanisms of identity, and as such, they seek to dominate and spread their influence. It's a competition and there's just no getting around that fact. A competition for space and resources; a place where if you don't dominate, you're being dominated. It all looks friendly on the surface, but cultures are simple expressions of mass egoic drive.

So getting back onto Trump - he is clearly seeking to promote and maintain Anglo-Celtic culture. He recognizes it's a competition. If we had Ellen Degeneres as President, she would be even more extreme in pushing her culture which is one of female superiority and lesbianism. Like Hillary, she would promote herself as egalitarian, then discriminate against everyone who is different to her. Human nature is pretty ugly. I'm not excusing Trump, but at least he is up front about what he's doing.

Don't think Hillary is an egalitarian.

Trump got a fair bit of German blood in him right? Shouldn't we all get a bit nervous when a German want to make anything great again? Ah crap, I don't have any German friend to say I'm not racist

While great powers and their warmongers all want to dominate and annex other (weaker) states, that's an old and outdated model that will do a lot more harm than "good".

The world has run out of easy pickings and so it'll make more economic sense to make peace rather than make war to make peace.

So for Trump and other empire builders to be upping the ante on nuclear arms; build up military might; extract and exploit natural resources that will soon run out, or will kill all of us and run out... these are not what a rational, realistic, thinking leader ought to do to preserve and protect their people's interest and survival.

Not that any colonial war of conquest had ever really been about enriching the plebs... but at least during the time of Rome and such, you can kinda make that case.

In this nuclear age where great powers cannot directly hit each other; and where softer targets do fight back or potentially fight back (forcing you to protect everywhere, at extrememly high costs)...

So it's all for self-aggrandisement and personal greed rather than anything sort of noble intent to benefit "his" brother of a different mother.

 

[Ves]

What I learned from that and a few other experiences is that cultures are mechanisms of identity, and as such, they seek to dominate and spread their influence. It's a competition and there's just no getting around that fact. A competition for space and resources; a place where if you don't dominate, you're being dominated. It all looks friendly on the surface, but cultures are simple expressions of mass egoic drive.

That's one attitude towards it.

Another one is that culture is a function of refinement, or expression, or even an elevation of the best actions and thoughts found within a given society or group of people.

 

[Ves]

By the way, the internet is a fascinating place for many reasons, but pertinent to this conversation is the fact that you really have no idea in a lot of cases the identity of the person you are conversing with. It's interesting because any of us could be having a civil discussion with someone else of a completely different race/culture. In other spheres you may consider them 'incompatible' but on the internet a lot of people barely blink an eye unless their attention is drawn towards it.

 

[McLovin]

Excellent analysis by Michelle Grattan, I think she is spot on. If Trump does us a favour this time, what will he expect in return down the track ?

Grattan on Friday: Malcolm Turnbull should walk away from refugee deal

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-...-turnbull-walk-away-from-refugee-deal/8238458

I agree with that. We don't need to get on Trump's merry-go-round.

 

[noco]

I agree with that. We don't need to get on Trump's merry-go-round.

Turnbull should never have walked into the deal in the first place....He got caught with his pants down around his ankles....Fancy falling for a three card trick by Obama.

 

[Tisme]

There is little doubt in my mind Obama has tricked Turnbull in Turnbull's desperation to remove asylum seekers from Manus and Nauru.
Perhaps Turnbull should have been more astute and checked to see if Trump approved before accepting Obama's deal.

Latham: Obama has played dreadful role

Former federal Labor leader and now political commentator Mark Latham has told Seven’s Sunrise program that Barack Obama “put a little ticking time bomb in the White House desk”.

“It is very, very important to get the full picture here. Everyone is talking about Trump and Turnbull. What about the third person in this deal, Obama?” Latham said.

2Mark Latham.
2Mark Latham.
“He played a dreadful role in the handover period from Trump selection to the inauguration. And Obama has gone out of his way to put a little ticking time bomb in the White House desk, for Donald Trump, by forcing him to either break his election promise to the American people with this sort of refugee intake not coming into the United States, or for Trump to disappoint the Turnbull government and loosen some of the relations with a longtime ally in Australia.

“So Obama here has played dreadful role in forcing his successor into making an awkward choice between an election promise, a commitment to the American people, or a commitment to Australia…
...blah blah
theaustralian.com.au

In Sept Obama announced he would increase the intake from 85k to 110k. The Nauru and Manus prisoners were ideal because they had already been vetted by numerous authorities.

In December there were various articles about Trump probably reneging on the deal.

 

[luutzu]

In Sept Obama announced he would increase the intake from 85k to 110k. The Nauru and Manus prisoners were ideal because they had already been vetted by numerous authorities.

In December there were various articles about Trump probably reneging on the deal.

Vetting, yes.

By numerous authorities, yes.

But were they "extreme vetting"? The Donald's high standard of vetting that led to always overpaying for properties and loses running casinos.


Some American comedian on YouTube made a point that all these years, we've either starve or bomb the crap out of all these countries and not too much noise was raised about it.

But to ban people from these countries. Now that's just too much.

Come on man, we all know that beside refugees from those countries, those who can afford to fly in bring in dollars and business. Can't be racist and mean like that. That's outrageous. [that's not to say it's a good thing]

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Vetting, yes.

Some American comedian on YouTube made a point that all these years, we've either starve or bomb the crap out of all these countries and not too much noise was raised about it.

Yeh it's alright to murder in cold blood, but don't ever deny anyone access to your country, even if they suck the lifeblood out of social services and plot to bring down western civilization. Goes to show how f#cking dumb lefties are.

 

[Tisme]

Yeh it's alright to murder in cold blood, but don't ever deny anyone access to your country, even if they suck the lifeblood out of social services and plot to bring down western civilization. Goes to show how f#cking dumb lefties are.

You reckon "peace loving" religions like Islam is the Trojan horse and the west is Troy?

 

[Gringotts Bank]

You reckon "peace loving" religions like Islam is the Trojan horse and the west is Troy?

Not sure if I'd put it like that. Most Muslims are simply after a better life, more money and a peaceful existence. They come to Aus and the US because, aside from a few well-known exceptions, the M.E. is a sh1thole and no one would in their right mind would choose that over Western civilization. They get here and find these enormous cultural differences. Welfare services get overwhelmed and they become totally segregated from the rest of the population. It's just the most idiotic process. The UN, who never seem to lift a goddamn finger to help anyone, leave conflicts to the US army to sort out. US forces shouldn't even be there in the first place, but the UN is happy for them to do the dirty work because the UN is gutless and irresponsible.

 

[noco]

Not sure if I'd put it like that. Most Muslims are simply after a better life, more money and a peaceful existence. They come to Aus and the US because, aside from a few well-known exceptions, the M.E. is a sh1thole and no one would in their right mind would choose that over Western civilization. They get here and find these enormous cultural differences. Welfare services get overwhelmed and they become totally segregated from the rest of the population. It's just the most idiotic process. The UN, who never seem to lift a goddamn finger to help anyone, leave conflicts to the US army to sort out. US forces shouldn't even be there in the first place, but the UN is happy for them to do the dirty work because the UN is gutless and irresponsible.

The UN is bankrupt and disorganized and when the USA pull out they will disintegrate.

 

[McLovin]

In Sept Obama announced he would increase the intake from 85k to 110k. The Nauru and Manus prisoners were ideal because they had already been vetted by numerous authorities.

In December there were various articles about Trump probably reneging on the deal.

What seems to have been lost is that this was a refugee swap. Australia wasn't just handing over it's dirty laundry, we we're taking some refugees bound for the US.

 

[luutzu]

You reckon "peace loving" religions like Islam is the Trojan horse and the west is Troy?

Mythical Troy is now part of Turkey right?

See? The Muslims have already taken Troy. Wait... Weren't the Arabs the Trojans then? Trojans flee the Greeks and found what came to be Rome. Rome built the Western world (Christian Rome that is )... So the Arabs built the Western world?

 

[luutzu]

Not sure if I'd put it like that. Most Muslims are simply after a better life, more money and a peaceful existence. They come to Aus and the US because, aside from a few well-known exceptions, the M.E. is a sh1thole and no one would in their right mind would choose that over Western civilization. They get here and find these enormous cultural differences. Welfare services get overwhelmed and they become totally segregated from the rest of the population. It's just the most idiotic process. The UN, who never seem to lift a goddamn finger to help anyone, leave conflicts to the US army to sort out. US forces shouldn't even be there in the first place, but the UN is happy for them to do the dirty work because the UN is gutless and irresponsible.

There are welfare services in 'merka? Not for the poor and refugees dude. Maybe 6 months.

 

[luutzu]

Yeh it's alright to murder in cold blood, but don't ever deny anyone access to your country, even if they suck the lifeblood out of social services and plot to bring down western civilization. Goes to show how f#cking dumb lefties are.

Wanting to end wars, save lives and money, remove the need to have to grudgingly take in refugees and foreign contractors and allies... that sounds very clever to me.

 

[Bill M]

I found this on YouTube.