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Where is/can Donald Trump take US (sic)?

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McLovin said:
Of course it will. It's a tax on US consumers. Who do you think will be the first to complain about the rising cost of products? The prez has pretty limited scope to raise taxes without congressional approval, so I'd put it more in the sabre rattling column at the moment.

Maybe Mexico could lease some land to China for a military base along the border to recoup some of the money they miss out on. ;)
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Can't be military base though, that'll lead to WW3 overnight. Only the US can have military bases right up to anybody's door.. that's just for their security. For them to think about US security, that's asking for it.

Though the Chinese can move in to teach Trump how to build that Great Wall of 'Merka. He can conscript any Mexican trying to get in for the job... free and cheap labour. Once the fence is built, America will be great again.

Imagine the poor kids a couple generation away attending Donald J. Trump High School. Fark me.
 
McLovin said:
Maybe Mexico could lease some land to China for a military base along the border to recoup some of the money they miss out on. ;)
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Not as silly as it sounds. They may take some hints from the Philippines . There could be another Bay of Pigs fiasco.
 
McLovin said:
Maybe Mexico could lease some land to China for a military base along the border to recoup some of the money they miss out on. ;)
Click to expand...

Speaking to a few friends from US the other night... they remain convinced that Trump can't afford to build the wall without using illegal immigrants.

I suppose he could order the wall be built by illegal labourers and simply have them paint the Mexican side of the wall at the end of it.
 
SirRumpole said:
President Duterte seems to be aligning himself with China, although that was when Obama criticised him for shooting drug dealers.

Trump may have a different view.

https://www.rt.com/news/369956-duterte-china-philippines-arms/
Click to expand...

Yea, Duterte is playing with fire.
Though maybe he's playing both sides. See how far he can get free stuff from both sides before one of them call it in. Then it'd be some other new president's problem as he either disappear completely or off to some resort island somewhere.

I heard that Obama's admin funded the guy's Judge Dredge campaign. Providing systems and surveillance to Phillippine's police force specifically for this clean-up. Then they call him nasty when he shifts toward China.

Makes sense, I mean international politics don't care much about human rights and other niceties. Whoever makes you the most money win your support.
 
So high I can't get over it
So low I can't get under it
So wide I can't get round it
Oh, rock my soul
 
SirRumpole said:
The college system is BS. Clinton won the popular vote.
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the United States is a federation, Horace . The president is not selected via a popular vote and the system was designed specifically to prevent the more populus States dominating via their greater numbers. Therefore it is not BS, and as intended. the college system work absolutely perfectly
 
wayneL said:
the United States is a federation, Horace . The president is not selected via a popular vote and the system was designed specifically to prevent the more populus States dominating via their greater numbers. Therefore it is not BS, and as intended. the college system work absolutely perfectly
Click to expand...

That's the populous anti-populous argument. Doesn't make much sense once you think about it though Sifu, not from a democratic point of view.

First, in a democracy, the majority ought to have their say, no? All votes are equal and what not.

Second, this electoral college rule was design not to protect the interests of the people of the less populous state as is claimed, but was designed so that slave-owning states, having agreed that slaves are 2/3rd human and other non-White Male are not citizens... well, they too ought to have two Senators etc. etc.

The thing I like about a Democracy as we know it today is that when the populous are sick of one party, whoever happen to be their current leader get to be scapegoated, booed and shipped off to some nice retirement village. Then the population are told that it was all the other side's fault and so get to pick the same alternative.

Then the "new" alternative do the same bs, screw the population to serve their own class (or if they happen to be from new money or no-money come good, serve their masters)... then once the plebs get upset at being screwed again... new ads, new elections and it repeats.

It's a great system, the kind wise (and wiley) kings and emperors play when they pick some idiot with a big ego, give him a grand title then set him about doing what's needed to be done. Then of course you chop his head off if the population become angry enough.

So it's not new... and as history have repeatedly shown, it can only last so long until the ruling elite run out of idiots convincing enough to play the lead role.

So now we have a new dirty word in politics: Populous.

When a politician do what is popular in a democracy, they're label a "populous" i.e. sneeky little unprincipled liar doing what the population want.

Not only is that wrong - i.e. how many politician do we know who truly do what the majority of the people want anyway. And wrong in that the kind of stuff they're proposing aren't at all what the population want - it's just sold that way, made to appear that way.

Let's take "free trade".

If trade is truly free, if the market are level and consumers are given free choice from well informed and equally competitive suppliers... who wouldn't want free trade?

Anyway...
 
skc said:
Speaking to a few friends from US the other night... they remain convinced that Trump can't afford to build the wall without using illegal immigrants.

I suppose he could order the wall be built by illegal labourers and simply have them paint the Mexican side of the wall at the end of it.
Click to expand...

What are the actual running costs of a wall that size? It's got to be in the billions of dollars and will it actually stop people coming across the border? I reckon NAFTA has done more to slow the number of border jumpers down than a wall would.

According to this from Pew the number of illegal immigrants has been falling...I guess not surprising that it was highest during the 1990s when Mexico was an economic basket case. Perhaps a strong economy prevents economic migration. ;)
PH_2016.09.20_Unauthorized-02.png
 
luutzu said:
That's the populous anti-populous argument. Doesn't make much sense once you think about it though Sifu, not from a democratic point of view.

First, in a democracy, the majority ought to have their say, no? All votes are equal and what not.

Second, this electoral college rule was design not to protect the interests of the people of the less populous state as is claimed, but was designed so that slave-owning states, having agreed that slaves are 2/3rd human and other non-White Male are not citizens... well, they too ought to have two Senators etc. etc.

The thing I like about a Democracy as we know it today is that when the populous are sick of one party, whoever happen to be their current leader get to be scapegoated, booed and shipped off to some nice retirement village. Then the population are told that it was all the other side's fault and so get to pick the same alternative.

Then the "new" alternative do the same bs, screw the population to serve their own class (or if they happen to be from new money or no-money come good, serve their masters)... then once the plebs get upset at being screwed again... new ads, new elections and it repeats.

It's a great system, the kind wise (and wiley) kings and emperors play when they pick some idiot with a big ego, give him a grand title then set him about doing what's needed to be done. Then of course you chop his head off if the population become angry enough.

So it's not new... and as history have repeatedly shown, it can only last so long until the ruling elite run out of idiots convincing enough to play the lead role.

So now we have a new dirty word in politics: Populous.

When a politician do what is popular in a democracy, they're label a "populous" i.e. sneeky little unprincipled liar doing what the population want.

Not only is that wrong - i.e. how many politician do we know who truly do what the majority of the people want anyway. And wrong in that the kind of stuff they're proposing aren't at all what the population want - it's just sold that way, made to appear that way.

Let's take "free trade".

If trade is truly free, if the market are level and consumers are given free choice from well informed and equally competitive suppliers... who wouldn't want free trade?

Anyway...
Click to expand...
Rubbish, Grasshopper.

It's not an argument, it's the constitution.

Our system is not dissimilar where all sorts of situations can occur where the the popularly voted for candidate loses a seat, or a party loses an election. Think about it.

It's a system with a reason, it worked as intended, the left should stop squealing, protesting, smashing peoples cars and shop windows, putting up torturers and murders as representatitives of the "womens movement".

The celebrity cabal should also STFU and stop proving what morons they are. I now have a long list of "artists" whom I can no longer enjoy.

The left should grow up, stop with the faux offense and enter into discussion and debate... and stop behaving like infants
 
wayneL said:
Rubbish, Grasshopper.

It's not an argument, it's the constitution.

Our system is not dissimilar where all sorts of situations can occur where the the popularly voted for candidate loses a seat, or a party loses an election. Think about it.

It's a system with a reason, it worked as intended, the left should stop squealing, protesting, smashing peoples cars and shop windows, putting up torturers and murders as representatitives of the "womens movement".

The celebrity cabal should also STFU and stop proving what morons they are. I now have a long list of "artists" whom I can no longer enjoy.

The left should grow up, stop with the faux offense and enter into discussion and debate... and stop behaving like infants
Click to expand...

You're arguing over the wrong issue there Sifu.

You are right about protests over Trump's win; right about celebs and Democratic politicians protesting Trump for winning... you're bang on there. With celebs, heck, I couldn't watch Colbert anymore once I saw him paling around with Henry Kissinger. Seriously, how in the world can anyone dance and crack jokes with that war criminal?

But while you're right about all these bs celebs and politicians protesting, you're wrong to call the movement a Lefty sour grape, faux anger crap.

Whenever there are real, genuine popular movement calling for change... opportunists and politicians will do what they do best: they stay back, watch to see where the tide goes, and then take the winning side, riding it for all its worth.

The movement against Trump is real, opportunists aren't the movement even though they're the ones getting all the attention and credits.

Important not to muddy the people's anger and fear with those opportunists. I mean, the Women's March against Trump in Washington got that DNC chairwoman - Schultz - the one who not only just support and favour Clinton, but caught redhanded (thanks Wikileaks, you Russian stooge) using the DNC and its organisation to screw the popular Sanders movement... she was there protesting Trump even though she plays a heck of a big part in Trump winning.

So yea, lots of self-interested opportunists. They're not the movement.

-----

With regard to the Constitution, the US, ours, any country you care to name, country from the beginning of time to today and tomorrows... they're all designed to protect the wealth and power of the ruling elite.

No constitution, be it the rule of Divine Authority or Democratic or whatever... they're all designed to keep the plebs in their place.

So there really is no Right or Left in the established political parties. They're all different flavour of the one party. All design to give voters the impression of choice and freedom and whatever.

To then pick one party over another, one politician over another thinking that one care for you or those you care about more... that's just delusional. That's playing right into their game.
 
Specious nonsense. You think there is a bona fide leftist movement? Let me tell you, there is a massive movement on the the other side. You just don't know it's there because of the echo chamber that is the media, the arts and the bureaucracy.

Middle America is very ####ing angry, and they are ready for civil war, believe me on that one. Trump embodies that anger and though he will most l likely not be truly representative of them,

You watch, if as the left prophesized (and even implored in some cases), Trump coos a bullet to the head, the poo will really hit the propeller.

I for one hope Trump serves as catalyst for the de-gradualism of the poisonous gradualist brain washing and social engineering, the awakening of critical thought and escewing of the pathological "virtuenza" that is plaguing the West and handing economic (and eventually military) hegemony to the Far East.

This is the panic evident in the socialists, that people are staying to wake up.
 
wayneL said:
I for one hope Trump serves as catalyst for the de-gradualism of the poisonous gradualist brain washing and social engineering, the awakening of critical thought and escewing of the pathological "virtuenza" that is plaguing the West and handing economic (and eventually military) hegemony to the Far East.
Click to expand...


What ?
 
wayneL said:
I for one hope Trump serves as catalyst for the de-gradualism of the poisonous gradualist brain washing and social engineering, the awakening of critical thought and escewing of the pathological "virtuenza" that is plaguing the West and handing economic (and eventually military) hegemony to the Far East.
Click to expand...

Based on what I've seen and heard thus far I'm no fan of Trump but I do hope you're right on that point.

If there's one thing the West desperately needs it's to get the concept of critical thought back in action. Everything else flows from that.
 
skc said:
Speaking to a few friends from US the other night... they remain convinced that Trump can't afford to build the wall without using illegal immigrants.

I suppose he could order the wall be built by illegal labourers and simply have them paint the Mexican side of the wall at the end of it.
Click to expand...


There won't be any illegal labourers to built the wall,
as they will all have been deported back to Mexico.

Mexico could offer to built the wall for half the price,
money up front of course. Then Mexico engage the Chinese to supply and build
the wall for half price (half of Mexico's price).
After all the Chinese have the most experience and knowledge of building
the Great Wall of China.

Trump will look smart and the Mexicans & Chinese will be happy.
 
wayneL said:
Specious nonsense. You think there is a bona fide leftist movement? Let me tell you, there is a massive movement on the the other side. You just don't know it's there because of the echo chamber that is the media, the arts and the bureaucracy.

Middle America is very ####ing angry, and they are ready for civil war, believe me on that one. Trump embodies that anger and though he will most l likely not be truly representative of them,

You watch, if as the left prophesized (and even implored in some cases), Trump coos a bullet to the head, the poo will really hit the propeller.

I for one hope Trump serves as catalyst for the de-gradualism of the poisonous gradualist brain washing and social engineering, the awakening of critical thought and escewing of the pathological "virtuenza" that is plaguing the West and handing economic (and eventually military) hegemony to the Far East.

This is the panic evident in the socialists, that people are staying to wake up.
Click to expand...

There's never been a "left" or a "right" movement. There's only ever been revolutionary ones.

Show me one example of a Leftist movement and I'll show you how it's just your ordinary "People are pizzed off" movement.

Yes, Middle America are angry, but they're not angry because they're Left or Right. They're pizzed because they've been screwed by the establishment and that is the only reason "an outsider" like Trump who seriously have no business running anything other than some scam, managed to become president.

So while Trump and his other jokers want to think that he got in because of his racist, protectionist speaks. He and the DNC, RNC and media got it horribly wrong thinking that as long as they beat up on Mexicans and Muslims, business can carry on as usual. It better not. But for some reason it's about to be accelerated.

Again, it's not "Socialism" or hippie dippy welfare state and abandoning Christian value, or migrants and refugees, or PC and the "liberal" mainstream media... those are not what brought America (and Europe, Australia and other great and noble Western democracies) to its current position.

It's the same old problem of centuries and empires past that does it. i.e. the established power elite and their courtiers are screwing over the stupid plebs and peasants - putting them in their place, showing them who own the dam place.

Just that in multi-cultural democracies, these psychos have ready-made, weak and defenceless scapegoats to blame. i.e. the poor (welfare cheats), the poor coloured coolies who come over to steal jobs, the poor refugees who flee from countries our masters of war are liberating coming over to blow us all up.

So while they tax and take from the plebs, their own skin and blood, point their fingers to the other impure parasites... well, how long can they keep doing that before people wisen up? Or if not wisen up, just upset enough to just burn something.

That's how Imperial Russia got burnt and their Czars family got shot and burried somewhere; that's how the the last Manchurian Emperor became a common gardener (and thankful for it)... and that's how Theodore Roosevelt got smart enough and be convincing enough to his fellow blue blood that they better cut this bs corporate welfare fat cat stuff before they too are stuffed.

A democracy is great in that it permit the peaceful transfer of power between parties - to better serve the need of the common people.

What this system has become of late is simply a bait and switch between the same single party, doing the same bs under different branding: serving the corporate monied interest at the massive expense of the poor and working class.

Can't keep pulling that off forever.
 
The Fabian society is a Left-wing movement Grasshopper.
 
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