The Turnbull Government

[SirRumpole]

Some of the finest minds in our history in that list, we should be proud.

To think that they committed the horrendous crime of wanting a more equitable society, unlike your mates on the looney far Right and the IPA who just want corporate power.

I know what I prefer , any day of the week.

 

[McLovin]

You certainly did not research very far did you?

It took me just one minute for the link below and I will send you more progressively.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Fabian_Society

The Australian Fabians have historically had close ties with the Australian Labor Party, also known as the ALP. This is evidenced by the number of past ALP prime ministers, federal ministers and state premiers who were active members of the Australian Fabians while in office. The role of patron of the Australian Fabians is currently vacant, but ceremonially filled by former Australian prime minister, the late Gough Whitlam.[3] This is a temporary arrangement and the position will be filled when an appropriate person to fund and uphold the society's values is found.

The Australian Fabians have had a significant influence on public policy development in Australia since the Second World War,[citation needed] with many of its members having held influential political offices in Australian governments.[citation needed]

Notable members of the Fabian Society.

Notable members
This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (January 2011)

Gough Whitlam (ALP Prime Minister 1972–75)
Bob Hawke (ALP Prime Minister 1983–1991)
Paul Keating (ALP Prime Minister 1991–1996)
John Cain (ALP Premier of Victoria)
Jim Cairns (ALP Deputy Prime Minister)
Don Dunstan (ALP Premier of South Australia)
Geoff Gallop (ALP Premier of Western Australia)
Neville Wran (ALP Premier of NSW 1976–86)
Frank Crean (ALP Deputy Prime Minister)
Arthur Calwell (ALP Former Leader)
Race Mathews (ALP MHR and Victorian MLA)
John Faulkner (ALP Senator and National President)
Julia Gillard (ALP Australia's first female Prime Minister)
John Lenders (ALP Treasurer of Victoria)
Clarrie Martin (ALP Attorney General of New South Wales)
Tanya Plibersek (Federal member for Sydney (ALP) 1998 - )
Henry Hyde Champion (Journalist)
Nettie Palmer (Writer)
Charles Strong (Clergyman)
Charles Marson (Clergyman)
David Charleston (Trade Unionist)
Bernard O'Dowd (Writer)
Phillip Adams (Broadcaster)



https://www.laborherald.com.au/politics/8-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-fabians/

6. Some of your favourite Labor identities are Fabians

Did you know that four of the last five Labor Prime Ministers were Fabians? Or that state Premiers like Geoff Gallop, John Cain and Don Dunstan were also Fabians?

We count amongst our members Tanya Plibersek, Chris Bowen, Jenny McAllister, Tim Watts, Stephen Jones, Wayne Swan, Andrew Leigh, Julie Collins, Claire Moore Luke Foley and many more.

1. The Fabian motto is ‘educate, agitate and organise’

Radical Irish playwright George Bernard Shaw helped found the Fabians and famously described the Fabian mission as “educate, agitate, organise”.

You just don't get it do you, noco? No one disputes those people are members of the Fabian Society, it's the premise that Fabians are all communists or it's some sort of secret free masonesque society. Paul Keating a communist?

 

[Tisme]

Some of the finest minds in our history in that list, we should be proud.

.

You can add all those others like, Benjamin Disraeli, Charles Darwin (oh the irony), Ralph Waldo Emerson, William Gladstone, George Bernard Shaw, Oscar Wilde, etc

 

[galumay]

You certainly did not research very far did you?

Did you bother reading what I wrote to try and help you?

If so why did you then link to a wikipedia page about Fabians in Australia?

It seems entirely counter to your use of it as a derogatory term, "fabian" is not an insult!

It's simply a group of people that share similar basic human values and morals, again if you had researched further than relying on Wikipedia you might have see the great minds of history that have been members of the fabian society.

You contiue shrill out 'fabian' as if it is some powerful insult.

Its a logical fallacy to suggest because someone is a member of the ALP and a member of the Fabian Society, then they are a Communist, because some Fabian Society members may possibly be Communists.

Its also a logical fallacy to suggest that because some ALP members are also Fabian Society Members and maybe some Fabian Members are Communists - that there is some conspiracy to overthrow Australia's political system by the wicked communists you imagine are controlling the ALP!

 

[noco]

Did you bother reading what I wrote to try and help you?

If so why did you then link to a wikipedia page about Fabians in Australia?

It seems entirely counter to your use of it as a derogatory term, "fabian" is not an insult!

It's simply a group of people that share similar basic human values and morals, again if you had researched further than relying on Wikipedia you might have see the great minds of history that have been members of the fabian society.

You contiue shrill out 'fabian' as if it is some powerful insult.

Its a logical fallacy to suggest because someone is a member of the ALP and a member of the Fabian Society, then they are a Communist, because some Fabian Society members may possibly be Communists.

Its also a logical fallacy to suggest that because some ALP members are also Fabian Society Members and maybe some Fabian Members are Communists - that there is some conspiracy to overthrow Australia's political system by the wicked communists you imagine are controlling the ALP!

So you want to help me???????........My gawd.....What a lot of gobbledygook...I don't need your help...I am old enough and mature enough to think for myself thanks.....You are the one that needs help.

Wake up sonny......You just won't come to terms in the way the Labor Party is heading.......Their membership has dropped from 370,000 to 50,000 and will face distinction if they continue on their present path.



Wake up sonny, the Fabian society is the think tank for the LUG party......The LUG party try to disguise it as democratic socilaism

 

[galumay]

...I don't need your help...

Well if you dont want my help thats fine, although after that last spray I suspect I misread the problem!

It may be medical help you need, perhaps its dementia or senility that is causing your delusional paranoia and wackjob conspiracy theories?

I am going to leave you to prep for the communist holocoust that is secretly been hatched by a squad of fabians after infiltrating the ALP and turning it into the FUG, intent of destroying civilisation as we know it!

I have done my best to try to help you to see why no one here takes you seriously and to encourage you to engage in some genuine self reflection about what you have been posting. From your responses I doubt you even read it, or bothered to go back and read what you have been posting and genuinely consider some of the many points various posters here have made rebutting your thinking.

I think we can safely say its a lost cause, and I shall add the first entry ever in my ignore list - usually I am very happy to discuss issues with those who have come to differing views to my own, but there needs to be some level of intellectual engagement or its just wasting my time and everyone else on the forum who has to read the ongoing drivel. Enough is enough!!

Sorry to all those who have tired before me of this debate, please return to normal broadcasting!

I see that the first polls are in showing a swing of +12% to the LNP since Turnbull took over. I think Little Bill has another sleepless night ahead!

 

[sptrawler]

I see that the first polls are in showing a swing of +12% to the LNP since Turnbull took over. I think Little Bill has another sleepless night ahead!

Well I think it was mentioned years ago, that Labor were making it all about Abbott, rather than the Coalition.

Now that Abbott has gone, Labor are left with a vacuum, now what.

Labor made it appear, the only problem with the Coalition was Abbott.

Dumb politics.IMO

 

[noco]

Well if you dont want my help thats fine, although after that last spray I suspect I misread the problem!

It may be medical help you need, perhaps its dementia or senility that is causing your delusional paranoia and wackjob conspiracy theories?

I am going to leave you to prep for the communist holocoust that is secretly been hatched by a squad of fabians after infiltrating the ALP and turning it into the FUG, intent of destroying civilisation as we know it!

I have done my best to try to help you to see why no one here takes you seriously and to encourage you to engage in some genuine self reflection about what you have been posting. From your responses I doubt you even read it, or bothered to go back and read what you have been posting and genuinely consider some of the many points various posters here have made rebutting your thinking.

I think we can safely say its a lost cause, and I shall add the first entry ever in my ignore list - usually I am very happy to discuss issues with those who have come to differing views to my own, but there needs to be some level of intellectual engagement or its just wasting my time and everyone else on the forum who has to read the ongoing drivel. Enough is enough!!

Sorry to all those who have tired before me of this debate, please return to normal broadcasting!

I see that the first polls are in showing a swing of +12% to the LNP since Turnbull took over. I think Little Bill has another sleepless night ahead!

Man oh Man you are getting desperate aren't you to make these personal attacks on my mentality just goes to show how sick you are...For a person who likes his own way and God help those who disagree with you,you could not get any lower.....you are disgusting and I do hope Joe Blow pulls you into line for such a vicious attack.

 

[galumay]

Well I think it was mentioned years ago, that Labor were making it all about Abbott, rather than the Coalition.

Now that Abbott has gone, Labor are left with a vacuum, now what.

Labor made it appear, the only problem with the Coalition was Abbott.

Dumb politics.IMO

I guess there is an element of truth to that, although it would be hard for them to do otherwise, Abbott was a gift to the ALP as a PM.

I think thats why Little Bill did and said so little in the last 12 months, it was obvious Abbott would never be able to win another election so the ALP didnt want him to lose the leadership before the election.

In a way Labor turned out to be correct in their campaigning - it was all about Abbott, just that at the last election not quite enough of the voters believed them!

It certainly makes Labor's job in opposition harder, Turnbull is much more likeable and being more moderate will placate a lot of voters disturbed by the extremism of Abbott.

I suspect what Labor will have to do is wait a bit firstly and see whether the change in leader actually translates into better government or not.

If not then the honeymoon will quickly turnaround, if so then Labor will need to redefine itself, start to stand up for some issues that they have been morally bankrupt on and I dont believe they can do that with Little Bill at the helm.

Turnbull has a great opportunity to drag the Liberal Party back to its true values and regain control from the extremists. He has a chance to actually create what Tony promised and could never deliver - good government.

I wish him the best of luck!

 

[SirRumpole]

Labor made it appear, the only problem with the Coalition was Abbott.

The government's problem in the main was and still is their policies. If they don't change all the flowery talk from Turnbull means nothing.

 

[SirRumpole]

Man oh Man you are getting desperate aren't you to make these personal attacks on my mentality just goes to show how sick you are...For a person who likes his own way and God help those who disagree with you,you could not get any lower.....you are disgusting and I do hope Joe Blow pulls you into line for such a vicious attack.

Given that two of the people on your Fabian list (Hawke and Keating) did more to open up Australia to international competition (whatever we may think of whether that was good for us or not) than any of your Liberal heroes who were more apt to lean to protectionism, indicates that your thinking regarding an underlying communist conspiracy is (to be kind) not exactly rational.

So, the advice to settle down a bit is probably in your own interest, given your recent medical problem. We don't want you blowing a pressure valve do we ?

 

[noco]

Given that two of the people on your Fabian list (Hawke and Keating) did more to open up Australia to international competition (whatever we may think of whether that was good for us or not) than any of your Liberal heroes who were more apt to lean to protectionism, indicates that your thinking regarding an underlying communist conspiracy is (to be kind) not exactly rational.

So, the advice to settle down a bit is probably in your own interest, given your recent medical problem. We don't want you blowing a pressure valve do we ?

Rumpy, I am now feeling 10 years younger since my procedure and all has gone well.

You mentioned Hawke and Keating being members of the Fabians and I do agree Hawke was closer to the ground roots of the Labor movement than is the current Labor Party now in opposition....The opposition led by Bill Shorten has veered too far to the left, are too closely associated with corrupt unions and may well be interpreting the Fabian rules to the extreme which may be their undoing...I mentioned extreme as I relate in comparison to the Islamic movement where some elements interpret the Koran one way and others to a different way.....I do hope you understand my drift....There are also different forms of socialism and some can be very disturbing.

You could also make a comparison between Hawke and Whitlam, where Whitlam wanted to buy back the farm with his outrageous dealing to borrow $billions from A fellow named Clemlani...Whitlam was certainly heading for central control...Hawke was far more moderate and did bring in some good reforms....I read a speech bu Chris Bowen and I regard Bowen as more in the mold of Whitlam.....

My concern is the current Labor party are moving too far to the left which embraces central control....Central control by the state of all our resources....Can you really imagine how the state could manage our mines when they had trouble running the pink bats and the NBN...It will not work.

 

[SirRumpole]

Rumpy, I am now feeling 10 years younger since my procedure and all has gone well.

Good to hear that

My concern is the current Labor party are moving too far to the left which embraces central control....Central control by the state of all our resources....Can you really imagine how the state could manage our mines when they had trouble running the pink bats and the NBN...It will not work.

I can't really see any evidence of that. What makes you think they are moving to "central control" of resources ?

The resources belong to you and me anyway, we own them and we just sell mining companies the right to extract and sell the resources. The price we charge to allow them to do that should be at the discretion of our representatives.

 

[Tisme]

The resources belong to you and me anyway, we own them and we just sell mining companies the right to extract and sell the resources. The price we charge to allow them to do that should be at the discretion of our representatives.

Yes if we didn't want central control, we should just open the boarders and let anyone in or out to do whatever they want to do.

Obviously those idiots back in the day didn't think about how unionising the states into a federation would result in forming government to govern......

 

[Logique]

..Turnbull has a great opportunity to drag the Liberal Party back to its true values and regain control from the extremists. He has a chance to actually create what Tony promised and could never deliver - good government.
I wish him the best of luck!

If you define an increase in the GST to 15% as good government, then I suppose so.

I don't know if the Coalition will be game to run on it at the next election, but if returned, 15% GST with probable widening of the base, is all but guaranteed. As would be a reduction in the top marginal tax rate.

As for the big end of town paying a fair share - Turnbull just sacked the Small Business Minister, Bruce Billson, one of the best performers in the Cabinet. So it's happy days for big business.

Labor's best chance is to run against the GST increase (and to replace the leader).

 

[basilio]

So exactly how long will this turncoat, free thinking, socialist sympathiser last as leader of the Liberal Party ? I think (I'm certain...!) I can see a deeeep, dastardly plot in the offing.

Scenario 1

Malcolm Turnball is allowed to win the next election - probably in a landslide - and also gain control of the Senate. In fact an election is called a bit earlier in March next year to avoid another budget. A few weeks after the election one way or another Malcolm falls under a bus. Could be literal. Could be an accident. Could be some created scandal. Plenty of guys in the shadows who excel at such pursuits.

Of course there has to be sweep of Malcolm fellow travellers as well. Women back to the kitchen etc

Scenario 2

Noco help me out here please. I'm running out of suitably imaginative ways to expose Malcolm as a doctrinaire Comintern Fabian who .............

 

[McLovin]

If you define an increase in the GST to 15% as good government, then I suppose so.

I don't know if the Coalition will be game to run on it at the next election, but if returned, 15% GST with probable widening of the base, is all but guaranteed. As would be a reduction in the top marginal tax rate.

As for the big end of town paying a fair share - Turnbull just sacked the Small Business Minister, Bruce Billson, one of the best performers in the Cabinet. So it's happy days for big business.

Labor's best chance is to run against the GST increase (and to replace the leader).

If the only change is an increase in the GST and a reduction in the top marginal rate then I will be very disappointed. The tax system worked a generation ago, wholesale reform is needed. I'd be really happy to see some sort of pooled development fund brought back for STEM investments especially around renewables, but I know I'm dreaming!

 

[SirRumpole]

If you define an increase in the GST to 15% as good government, then I suppose so.

I don't know if the Coalition will be game to run on it at the next election, but if returned, 15% GST with probable widening of the base, is all but guaranteed. As would be a reduction in the top marginal tax rate.

As for the big end of town paying a fair share - Turnbull just sacked the Small Business Minister, Bruce Billson, one of the best performers in the Cabinet. So it's happy days for big business.

Labor's best chance is to run against the GST increase (and to replace the leader).

If the Libs try an impose and increased or widened GST on the voters without fixing the top end perks and tax rorts, then they are dead meat imo.

 

[Logique]

If the Libs try an impose and increased or widened GST on the voters without fixing the top end perks and tax rorts, then they are dead meat imo.

Right there with you on that!

 

[basilio]

If the Libs try an impose and increased or widened GST on the voters without fixing the top end perks and tax rorts, then they are dead meat imo.

It will be interesting to see what happens. If one was trying to create a fairer, equitable broad based tax system you would look at international companies getting away with overseas tax havens, the rorting of super by the very rich, the use of aggressive tax avoidance measures as well as broadening the GST.

But I have never seen the business community suggesting anything other than increasing the GST and reducing income and company tax levels starting at the top tiers. It would be major achievement for Malcolm Turnball to reform tax along the broader lines I suggested.