Let us spare a thought for our Victorian ASF Members

[Knobby22]

Wilful ignorance.

 

[wayneL]

Wilful ignorance.

Of what?

 

[Knobby22]

Don't worry about it.

 

[moXJO]

Really, do what 41 deaths, there are 25 Million people in Australia, do the figures, so no one dies at anytime, we all live foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Try every 3.15minutes, there is a death in Australia, did you care or even try and understand the figures before this.

Really.

I understand all that. And agree to a point. From a purely economic view you would let covid run through and wipe out the oldies. No more strain on pensions, jobs, or healthcare. But the mental health of the public would suffer to much imo. That's a lot of loss on top of an already depressed population.

If the lockdown was still producing that amount of deaths then it would have been failing. But it was a rogue stat. And yes, the economic cost was greater then what was probably achieved in lives.

However there are so many layers that I don't like throwing my opinion in.

We have outside agitators that would capitalise on an severe outbreak.

We have a general public disconnecting from the realities of work.

We have extremism on the rise.

And the list goes on.

Imo you can only lockdown so many times before the masses start to riot. There is already the start of some civil unrest against the state.

Business is at a point where many will lose everything.
I would not want the governments job right now.

I think NSW has the right model for now. Contact tracing works well when the numbers are low.

I do think we need to keep numbers low for now though. If we are playing a global game, then knowing we are relatively virus free may be to our benefit later on.

Its very hard to pick a way through.

 

[Smurf1976]

Really, do what 41 deaths, there are 25 Million people in Australia, do the figures, so no one dies at anytime, we all live foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Try every 3.15minutes, there is a death in Australia, did you care or even try and understand the figures before this.

That is the number of deaths in spite of the lockdown.

Obviously the number of deaths would be higher without it.

The argument seems akin to saying that because you own a portfolio of ASX200 stocks which has gone up over time that is proof that speculative small caps aren't in any way risky.

Or because you caught the train to work every day for 20 years, that shows that the risk of cyclists being run over is really very low.

Avoiding something and not getting hurt by it doesn't prove that it's safe. All it shows is that avoiding it means you don't get hurt by it.

 

[Smurf1976]

If we are playing a global game, then knowing we are relatively virus free may be to our benefit later on.

As a case in point just compare the Australian states.

Look on property forums or other places where real estate, where to live, cities, towns etc are being discussed and the situation in Victoria does seem to be tipping the balance somewhat.

It'll only be at the margin of course, there won't be a mass exodus, but look back some years from now and I'm pretty sure that the inflection point will be there. 2020 will be the year when population growth dropped down a notch in Victoria, Melbourne in particular, and went up a notch in SA and Tas.

No mass exodus but there'll be some at the margin, those with no strong attachment to any particular place to live, who are motivated to move by the whole thing. Where that matters is that mostly these people are the ones who either have money and don't need to work or who can call the shots.

 

[Smurf1976]

From a purely economic view you would let covid run through and wipe out the oldies. No more strain on pensions, jobs, or healthcare. But the mental health of the public would suffer to much imo. That's a lot of loss on top of an already depressed population.

As a general observation, with a few exceptions once someone has money they become far more concerned about non-financial things.

Or in other words a society that focuses only on money is a society which will over time drive out much capital and talent.

Money's important but it's not the whole game.

 

[satanoperca]

Really what can I say:
"Senior doctors across Melbourne are urging politicians not to support a state of emergency extension, saying the move threatens to “destroy” the health and wellbeing of fed-up Victorians.

In a letter to Premier Daniel Andrews, seen by NCA NewsWire, 13 medical practitioners outlined their concerns about the State Government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic."

Dan the man is not a leader

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...l/news-story/477352005ec852b6dd4b0e8f31f97441

 

[spooly74]

And of those 20% of the population, how many die from the DIRECT result of being infected from Covid.

Numbers start to get smaller and smaller.

CDC estimated that approx 6% of the US deaths had no existing conditions or comorbidity.

 

[satanoperca]

CDC estimated that approx 6% of the US deaths had no existing conditions or comorbidity.

Hi Spooly74, do you have a link?

I am reading it correctly, of all the deaths associated with Covid, only 6% were healthy of body.

If this is correct, this has been the largest overreaction of all time.

 

[spooly74]

Hi Spooly74, do you have a link?

I am reading it correctly, of all the deaths associated with Covid, only 6% were healthy of body.

If this is correct, this has been the largest overreaction of all time.

Here's a few

https://www.westernjournal.com/cdc-...&utm_content=2020-08-31&utm_campaign=memelink

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/ron-paul-cdc-bombshell-only-6-covid-deaths-only-covid

 

[spooly74]

If this is correct, this has been the largest overreaction of all time.

The Chinese put on the Greatest Show on Earth.
Mass street disinfection, convulsing people on the street, Killing Dogs etc etc etc
Spain blinked and the rest of the world followed .....bar one.

Thank God Sweden did what they did or we'd have this shoved down our throats for several years.
Likely witnessing the evolution of the newest common cold.

 

[Klogg]

Hi Spooly74, do you have a link?

I am reading it correctly, of all the deaths associated with Covid, only 6% were healthy of body.

If this is correct, this has been the largest overreaction of all time.

2020 will be the largest over-reaction the world's seen in some time.

A shame really, even if the asset price inflation about to occur does suit me.

 

[IFocus]

Mean while Gulag Australia

Australia's outbound travel ban is one of the strictest coronavirus public health responses in the world


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08...nd-international-travel-ban-morrison/12605404

 

[basilio]

Would be well worth reading past the distorted headlines of this reference to the CDC report.

COVID 19 causes a range of other illnesses that effectively contribute/cause the final demise.

The respiratory failures, pneumonia etc were triggered by COVID.

The report showed that in 18,116 of 42,587 deaths in the 75-84 age group, the individual who died also had the flu or pneumonia, while in 15,100 cases the underlying condition was respiratory failure.


Overall, of the 161,392 deaths covered by the report, 42 percent (68,004) of those who died also had the flu or pneumonia while 34 percent (54,803) had an underlying condition of respiratory failure.

https://www.westernjournal.com/cdc-...&utm_content=2020-08-31&utm_campaign=memelink

 

[bellenuit]

CDC estimated that approx 6% of the US deaths had no existing conditions or comorbidity.

I don't think that figure on its own points to an overreaction. What one also needs to know (apart from what Bas mentioned above) is what percentage of the 94% would have survived were it not for the COVID. Many people have pre-existing conditions like heart disease, diabetes, obesity, asthma etc. and live long lives with those conditions kept in check by medication and lifestyle choices.

 

[qldfrog]

I don't think that figure on its own points to an overreaction. What one also needs to know (apart from what Bas mentioned above) is what percentage of the 94% would have survived were it not for the COVID. Many people have pre-existing conditions like heart disease, diabetes, obesity, asthma etc. and live long lives with those conditions kept in check by medication and lifestyle choices.

Which is why it will be easy to see the real covid death number by looking at annual death numbers from 2018 to 2021(lets say)
Sadly it will also include the deaths such as suicides undetected untreated illness etc which are linked to the response, not covid itself.
But overall, give it a year and you will have a very accurate image
I doubt it will be much publicized

 

[spooly74]

What one also needs to know (apart from what Bas mentioned above) is what percentage of the 94% would have survived were it not for the COVID. Many people have pre-existing conditions like heart disease, diabetes, obesity, asthma etc. and live long lives with those conditions kept in check by medication and lifestyle choices.

Impossible to know that. The conditions are mentioned in Table 3
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm
Hard to think Covid played a part for these people :Intentional and unintentional injury, poisoning and other adverse events: 5133, but it's a small number relative to previous respiratory illnesses.

 

[satanoperca]

"
Victoria's Chief Health Officer says less than 50 per cent of people with mild symptoms are getting tested.

Some 13,000 Victorians were tested yesterday, an increase of 3000 on the previous day.

Professor Brett Sutton is urging people to get tested even if they have mild symptoms.

He said this will mean health authorities will have a full understanding of how much infection is in the community before reopening."

Really, I can explain to a child how to build a robust system, based on data, that is dynamic and changes.

No **** Brett, people aren't getting tested, just imagine if we played the same b---llshit over the last decade, Sir you have a sniffle go to the doctors, medical system overwhelmed.

Tired of people living in ivory towers/bubbles.

 

[Smurf1976]

Which is why it will be easy to see the real covid death number by looking at annual death numbers from 2018 to 2021(lets say)

Trouble is, that shows the Sweden model to be a failure with the highest death rate in many years (on an annualised basis obviously given the year isn't over yet).