Let us spare a thought for our Victorian ASF Members

[Smurf1976]

we will all have the figures in a couple of years, but we have none and can not yet

Agreed.

I just wish though that false claims of Sweden having done well would stop being made.

Thus far, Sweden has seen a result that's considerably worse than Australia with substantially more deaths and a greater decline in GDP during the second quarter with -7.0% for Australia versus -8.6% for Sweden.

We probably could do better than we've done but of all places we could copy, Sweden is hardly a role model at least in terms of performance to date.

 

[sptrawler]

It will need a trigger event for people to get off their fat arses. At the moment it's still controllable. Lot of outside agitators may take advantage though.

The fat arses will quiver when the money dries up, everyone on the teat will go balistic.
I go to my local to catch up with mates on Friday, I have noticed an absolute dero(not being funny, he is a nice guy) has started betting on the TAB, it has happened since the increased payments.
There will be a lot off withdrawl symptoms when it stops IMO.
Unless Victoria can get a handle on the spread and Australia can open up, this will become a real multi generational mess IMO.
Forget about inter generational wealth transfer, start and think about inter generational debt transfer, if this goes on for a few years.
There are a lot of baby boomers coming to retirement with debt, if this continues they wont be able to pay it, let alone have a comfortable retirement.
So that means reverse mortgage, or selling, or passing debt on.

 

[moXJO]

I thought there's always a requirement to state name and address if asked by police?

You don't need to carry proof of that, you don't need to be carrying "ID" in the way it is commonly taken to mean a driver's licence or similar, but you do need to answer the question.

I was unaware they could come onto your property and arrest you in such a manner. Are these old or new laws just for COVID-19?

 

[moXJO]

Agreed.

I just wish though that false claims of Sweden having done well would stop being made.

Thus far, Sweden has seen a result that's considerably worse than Australia with substantially more deaths and a greater decline in GDP during the second quarter with -7.0% for Australia versus -8.6% for Sweden.

We probably could do better than we've done but of all places we could copy, Sweden is hardly a role model at least in terms of performance to date.

Not many positives out of Sweden except for the freedom. I wonder what the debt due to coronavirus looked like compared to other countries?

 

[Smurf1976]

I was unaware they could come onto your property and arrest you in such a manner. Are these old or new laws just for COVID-19?

I'm no cop or lawyer but my understanding has always been that you are required to identify yourself if asked by police. I could be wrong, that's just always been my understanding.

Identify as in tell them your name and address. That's a verbal answer to the question - you are not required to carry any form of written proof except under specific circumstances (eg some states require carrying a drivers licence whilst driving and you need a passport to travel overseas).

If police turn up on my doorstep then I've no reason to not tell them who I am so long as I've first satisfied myself that they're legit police.

 

[moXJO]

I'm no cop or lawyer but my understanding has always been that you are required to identify yourself if asked by police. I could be wrong, that's just always been my understanding.

Identify as in tell them your name and address. That's a verbal answer to the question - you are not required to carry any form of written proof except under specific circumstances (eg some states require carrying a drivers licence whilst driving and you need a passport to travel overseas).

If police turn up on my doorstep then I've no reason to not tell them who I am so long as I've first satisfied myself that they're legit police.

Unless they have a reason to be on your property (reasonable suspicion, warrant, etc) then they shouldn't be there, well that's what I thought.

Obviously, suspicion of visiting your neighbour is the current law as mentioned above by cyn. Draconian it is indeed. This is not something they will be able to use for long.

 

[moXJO]

Watch what is going on in Vic

This video went worldwide pretty quick and is now being used as a warning against rising authoritarianism.
Definitely trending with the conspiracy crowd.
Good one Victoria.

 

[Smurf1976]

Unless they have a reason to be on your property (reasonable suspicion, warrant, etc) then they shouldn't be there, well that's what I thought.

Only time I've had police turn up they claimed that a truly bizarre crime had been reported and they were here to investigate. This was around 3am by the way.

I always assumed that was an excuse and that whatever had been reported wasn't what they said it was and they just needed a reason to come in and have a look. Someone must've reported something far more serious I assume. They don't normally bang on doors at 3am after all and there were 6 of them standing on the doorstep.

There's another street nearby with a very similar name - my guess was they got the wrong address.

 

[qldfrog]

We are witnessing a very fast descent into totalitarianism.be
always wary of people locking you or bashing you for your own good.go back 12 months:
Which country on this planet was preventing people from leaving their home place when the destination was ready to accept them?
And obviously when not under a crime arrest notice etc
Now Australia is the first to do it for our own good...
Is this country too afraid of its citizens looking at the outside world?
Next we will block internet...

 

[IFocus]

Agreed.

I just wish though that false claims of Sweden having done well would stop being made.

Thus far, Sweden has seen a result that's considerably worse than Australia with substantially more deaths and a greater decline in GDP during the second quarter with -7.0% for Australia versus -8.6% for Sweden.

We probably could do better than we've done but of all places we could copy, Sweden is hardly a role model at least in terms of performance to date.

I honestly don't get the Sweden thing at all other than the so called freedom part which still requires following government guide lines that restrict movement and gatherings.

Its seems to be the conservatives that have this enthralment which further baffles me as its the socialist aspects of the society that has the support measures allowing for people to follow the rules and trust government departments.

Unlike here where government department messages are usually in front of hidden agendas driven by ideological politics Robo debt being a lovely example.

 

[wayneL]

 

[Knobby22]

The Swedes went and got tested as soon as they had any symptoms and didn't try to hold rallies. The first wave wedidwell too.
But now we have a second wave due to gov incompetence.

This time have too many brainwashed selfish nuftys here not getting tested and trying to cause rallies. Slowing the process down. Sweden doesn't have as many.

 

[wayneL]

The Swedes went and got tested as soon as they had any symptoms and didn't try to hold rallies. The first wave wedidwell too.
But now we have a second wave due to gov incompetence.

This time have too many brainwashed selfish nuftys here not getting tested and trying to cause rallies. Slowing the process down. Sweden doesn't have as many.

If you look all over the world, those with unreasonable lockdowns have had similar protests, most not, or under, reported.

People are noticing the overreach and inconsistencies and getting very p1ssed.

I personally won't be attending rallies, but understand their frustration.

 

[basilio]

Police response to arrest of Ballarat woman

The video of the Ballarat woman arrested because she was attempting to organise an illegal demonstration (against the lockdown) has created its own sturm and drang.

So what was the reasoning and why weren't BLM organisers treated similarly ?

Given the numbers at the Black Lives Matter protest, can Luke Cornelius (Police Chief) say they obeyed the social restrictions?

Here’s the thing - the organisers of the Black Lives Matter protest were on record saying we’re telling people who are coming to protest to comply with the directions.

We’re saying to people, observe social distance, we’re saying to people, wear masks, we’re saying to people, gathering in groups of no more than 10 and keep 100m apart.

Now that’s what they were saying.

OK? In this case, stage four, where protest is unlawful, leaving home to protest is unlawful, you have got no basis upon which you can say to people, leave home to protest.

Back to Luke Cornelius and the planned Victorian protests.
He is asked what the difference is between the Black Lives Matter protest and whatever this is.

There’s a huge difference. So, during the Black Lives Matter protest, we were operating under a very different set of rules. Under the Black Lives Matter protest, when that was on, leaving home to protest was a permitted activity.

There were restrictions on it, so the restriction was you can leave home to protest with a group up to 10 people, and in multiple groups, so long as there’s a 100m distance between each of those groups.

Now, in stage four, and also in stage three, which applies to regional Victoria, when those restrictions came in, public protest was removed as a permitted reason.

So, at the moment, across the state, in any context, in any location, you cannot leave home to protest.

Now, that’s the rule that applies now. That’s the rule that applied to the individual that we arrested yesterday. That’s the rule that applied when I stood here last week and warned everyone about what the rules were. Those rules did not apply during the Black Lives Matter protest.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-5f5053cb8f08277a6c07dc07#liveblog-navigation

 

[basilio]

More from Luke Cornelius re arrest of the Ballarat women for inciting an illegal march.

You'd have to be on Mars' not to know about anti-protest directive
Then we get this from Luke Cornelius:

I’d also make this observation, we take offenders and suspects as we find them. You know, we do to a certain extent have access to information about people, but in the end, we have to take people as we find them.

And that doesn’t detract of course from our obligation to hold people to account. I mean, if we started to say, we can’t possibly hold this person to account because of a particular attribute, where do we draw the line? The key piece here is we’re focusing on behaviour.

In this case, we are alleging this individual engaged in serious criminal behaviour, inciting a public protest at a time when public protest is unlawful.

And we have been very clear about that. I mean, I don’t think I could have been clearer last week.

We said we would be coming out and we would be holding people to account and that’s exactly what we’ve done.

You have to have been on Mars not to know that.

I have to say if someone looked me in the eye and I was out dealing with an individual and they said, “I didn’t know I couldn’t protest.” I have to say, “Come on, don’t take me for a fool. You have to be on Mars not to know that.”

 

[basilio]

'Be the keyboard warrior'
Victoria police’s Luke Cornelius says people can bitch and protest online, ‘as normal’.

By all means, protest online. Be the keyboard warrior.

Say all sorts of unpleasant and uncharitable things about people urging you to behave sensibly, but do it online.

Don’t leave home to do it. Don’t compromise the safety, health and wellbeing of other Victorians.
----------------------------------

You can read the full transcript of Assistant Commissioner Luke Cornelius Press Statement on line.

Goes into detail about police efforts to identify, warn and stop organisers of illegal public gatherings as well as people who want to chance their arm at becoming COVID heroes.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-5f504b8a8f086d7ec333412c#liveblog-navigation

 

[wayneL]

What a surprise.

 

[basilio]

Daniel Andrews saw a group of doctors who believe Victoria should open up .
The Premiers response was IMV reasoned and respectful.

Asked about the doctors who have called on the government not to extend stage four restrictions, Daniel Andrews says:

We take into account all the impacts of fundamentally changing the way Victorians live their lives.


Whether that be in employment, in accessing services, and we’ve stood here many times, I think, talking about many of those issues. The issue of cancer screening has been raised at national cabinet.


Every effort is being made to drive those rates back up to closer to normal levels. I don’t want to be seen to be commenting on those doctors. They’re free to have a view.


They put their view yesterday. They essentially tried to make the case that the death numbers are quite low, therefore we should open up. I just have to respectfully find fault with that logic.


The notion that a death rate, whilst you’re locked down, can be assumed to continue with some stability once you open up, I just don’t think that makes a lot of sense. But I honour the work that they do. I completely support their right to have a different view to me and a different view to other doctors who are working with us. I would also make the point that, as committed and as passionate – and I have more than some personal experience with those who provide cancer care - and I’ve got nothing but the highest regard for them. And I, indeed, know many of the doctors that have signed that letter.


There will be no room for any of their patients if our hospital system is completely overrun. And that’s what will happen if this thing gets away for us again, and the third wave is potentially worse in terms of numbers than what the second wave has been.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-5f5047b78f086d7ec333410f#liveblog-navigation

 

[basilio]

'Sorry for my bimbo moment': Woman apologises after being arrested live on Facebook over coronavirus lockdown post

A Victorian woman whose live-streamed arrest for allegedly organising an anti-lockdown protest went viral has apologised for her "bimbo moment".

Key points:

• Zoe Buhler says she thought she was being kidnapped and was "fully freaking out"
• Police concede the arrest of a pregnant woman did not look good, but say officers behaved appropriately
• Eighty people have been spoken to by officers in the past week about planned protests, police say

Zoe Buhler said she did not realise she was doing anything wrong by starting a Facebook event asking people to meet in Ballarat, west of Melbourne, to protest against lockdown restrictions.

"Sorry about my bimbo moment," she said this morning.

"I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to."

Police arrived at the 28-year-old's home in Ballarat yesterday afternoon.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-03/coronavirus-lockdown-protest-facebook-arrest/12624318

 

[wayneL]

Your brownshirt is in the mail, bas.