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Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.0%
  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.5%
  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 80 40.0%
  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 38 19.0%
  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.5%
  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.0%

  • Total voters
    200
Tesla .... now working with Lidar (after a change of heart by Musk) so probably understand the problems.

Would have liked the Waymo Level 4 system in the test. They have much more real life experience and would have shat it in I believe.

Unless I have missed some recent news, Tesla only use LiDAR as a calibration tool to help its AI learn depth perception.

LiDAR stands for Light Detecting and Ranging – essentially using lasers to measure distances. A laser pulse is sent out, and the time it takes to return is measured – providing extremely accurate distance measurements.
Tesla uses it exactly how it's described – they use it to gather ground-truth data. This data is then used to feed Tesla’s Full Self Driving system – which helps validate its vision-only system's accuracy. LiDAR provides very accurate measurements to help ensure that FSD’s perception of space is accurate – and is only used by Tesla to ensure that its AI technology which is the brains of FSD is capable of accurately interpreting depth from just visual data.


 
Yes, I heard they are only using it in limited ways also along with the cameras due to cost.
If they can get it working together they might have a big advantage on the competition.
 
Yes, I heard they are only using it in limited ways also along with the cameras due to cost.
If they can get it working together they might have a big advantage on the competition.

Tesla are not trying to get their FSD working with both cameras &LiDAR. They are using LiDAR to teach the AI how to learn to accurately interpret (judge) depth from just visual data. Just like a child learns to walk and judge distance.

There will be no LiDAR on consumer based Tesla's
 
Not what I heard.
We shall see.
 
Like I said, I may have missed the latest news on this.

Can you post a link or send me the info you read or heard?
I can't remember where I heard it.
Possibly through the engineering community.

It's just the litigation. They have had issues with phantom breaking.
The vision has to work out what is ahead, sometimes with dirty cameras, fog, glare, etc. The Ai has to recognise elements in the environment when Lidar would just tell you its there.

Also, lidar is becoming cheaper and less conspicuous. Maybe I am wrong but I really can't see its partial use not happening. I understand Musk pushing the envelope, if he can achieve it he will be a legend again I just think it's a big ask.
 
Coz videos take a long time to watch. Only tesla shareholders allowed. more likely to keep quiet if something goes wrong

  • Tesla’s Robotaxi service is now live in the San Francisco area.
  • This is the second city where Tesla’s driverless Model Ys can now be hailed, after Austin, Texas.
  • That said, because Tesla doesn’t have all the necessary regulatory approvals in California, San Francisco Robotaxis have safety drivers behind the wheel.
Tesla has expanded its Robotaxi service to a second city today, opening its ride-hailing service to a limited part of San Francisco. The driverless taxis first went live in Austin, Texas, last month.

Just like in Austin, though, the service area in San Francisco is quite small, as shown in the official image posted earlier today by the automaker’s AI arm on its official X page. Furthermore, not everyone will be able to hail a Tesla Robotaxi in the Bay Area, as access is currently on an invite-only basis. Tesla owners, influencers and investors are among the first to get invites.

 
A little off topic.

Caught up with my friend that I sold my Tesla M3 to, he loves the whole package, including how it has helped him cope with driving as he goes through the hassle of Multiple sclerosis. The only issue has been his neighbours.

The neighbor and his husband have been good friends since they moved in 20 years ago, but they did not take well to my friend having a Tesla in the driveway. They gave him a blast about supporting Musk, a "right wing nut job", that supports Trump... blah blah.

Funny thing, they both drive VW's, I wonder if they know the contribution to WWII and the holocaust.

Oh well, at least my friend is able to drive safely again. He has lost the feeling in both feet and has trouble walking and feeling brake and accelerator pressure. Special physio helps but each week I see him slowly struggle. The amazing thing about him, he has not stopped smiling and is positive every day.


 
Some questions that come to mind -
  • How long will the Chinese government continue to subsidise their EV industry?
  • When it stops, will all the manufacturers be able to survive in real world cost structures?
  • If some manufacturers go broke who covers the warranty and parts supply?

The European Union made headlines last year when it applied tariffs of up to 35.3 per cent on Chinese-built electric vehicles sold in the region, after an in-house investigation concluded they were being unfairly subsidised by the Chinese government to make them cheaper to buy in Europe. It said they are "causing a threat of economic injury to EU BEV [battery-electric] vehicle producers."

 
long enough to ensure any competition is dead?
 
long enough to ensure any competition is dead?
Exactly, China is running a huge trade surplus so will easily be able to outlast Western subsidies, so the West subsidising their manufacturing wont work.

That is why adding a tax to negate the subsidy is really the only option, if the price of the Chinese car with the tariff, is the same price as the home grown product.

It then is up to the manufacturers, to ensure their product is more attractive to the purchaser than the Chinese product, which will cost the same.
It might not be efficient, but it is the only option, unless China agree to a level playing field by not subsidising their product.
 
even wo subsidizing, it will not be a level playing field...
We are structurally uncompetitive
 
even wo subsidizing, it will not be a level playing field...
We are structurally uncompetitive
That's true, but people still buy badges eg BMW, Merc, Ford etc, to give them any chance of competing they either have to drop their input costs or raise the Chinese input cost, if China wont do it the West doesn't have many options other than more and more unemployment and less and less income.
 
the West doesn't have many options other than more and more unemployment and less and less income.
Not really really, the West can just divert their Labour and capital to more productive industries, and use the profits from those industries to purchase the other stuff at lower prices.
 
Not really really, the West can just divert their Labour and capital to more productive industries, and use the profits from those industries to purchase the other stuff at lower prices.
If you look at it from a purely commercial aspect, you may be correct, from a strategic aspect, when China destroys all the West's manufacturing capability they can dictate terms on what the West gets and when.

Not a good outcome for us.

What "more productive" industries do you suggest that the West invest in ?
 
1. In the system I describe, all countries become more reliant on each other, and its probably a safer would than having super powers that don't really need each other.

2. Why isn't it good for us? we get to supply ourselves and other countries with all the goods and services we are good at producing and get to import the ones we aren't good at producing in return. There is a reason a Butcher buys his bread from the baker rather than try and bake it himself.

3. The list is endless and we are already investing in them all the time, and it happens automatically, capital and labour will naturally flow to where it produces the most value, we don't have to command it a central government. The global economy is so diverse and industries so specialised you can't even understand some peoples job titles of products they make/supply.
 
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