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Dump it Here

Discussion in 'Beginner's Lounge' started by Skate, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. Skate

    Skate

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    Ann, reading chart patterns & researching the fundamentals of a company is subjective & is wholly in the eye of the beholder as the interpretation can differ from one trader to another.

    Fundamental analysis (No - it's not for me)
    Fundamental analysis is no (fun) to carry out & it's time consuming, basically a background check of how company has performed and operated in the past assuming the information passed on is accurate.

    The problems with Chart Patterns (I don't know what will happen tomorrow let alone using hindsight to determine it)
    Patterns looks good in the middle of the chart when you can only trade at the hard right edge. We all tend to be experts looking at chart patterns in hindsight.

    Coding (yes, I can relate to this method of trading as it gives me confidence to place a trade - a mechanical trading system)
    Coding a trading idea stands head & shoulders above all the other tools available to me in my trading tool box.(IMHO)

    Coding a strategy works for me & for others it's probably a different kettle of fish.

    What's the nice thing about people
    They are all different

    What's the nice thing about traders
    They are all different

    Skate
     
  2. Ann

    Ann

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    Pretty much everything in life is subjective and can be interpreted in a multitude of ways, why should TA and FA be any different Skate? So where is the problem with this?

    One only needs to find those few critical pieces of information and have them presented in a way which can be interpreted by the individual to offer insight and value, but that will be subjective. If a person has no idea what they are looking for, they will rarely find it. One needs to work out what is being looked for and then go after that information, disregarding all else.

    Not so Skate, as long as you can draw support/resistance lines going up, across and down you will see the potential direction and there will be warning levels from which to trade regardless of which side of the mountain you are looking. You just need to practice. I can see the potential future of TLS quite easily, I bet a lot of people who can't even chart will see what I can see. But as with all things in the future, stuff happens and there are no guarantees in life, same with a chart. However if you are watching the road ahead you can see the white lines either side, or yellow in this case.

    tls updown.png
     
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  3. tech/a

    tech/a No Ordinary Duck

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    Id like to comment on fear of failure.

    This was something as a youngster I often faced.
    I learnt why. (I had fear).

    Financially it was because I was risking a very large % of net wealth.
    Having chosen to work for myself and create my own future it was always with me.

    Failure meant a definite change in my plan for life.
    I made my own wage for many years and at 40 found the power of leverage and compounding in property.
    Suddenly I had a buffer—-equity in properties so expanded infrastructure in business including premises.

    Always with my safety net.

    Funny thing is I never used it
    Never had to
    That sense of safety in shackled me!

    So now I have safety plans from insuring all projects over $100k and we do many in the 7 figure relm.To stops in trading and management plans for everything.

    I’ve not felt that fear for many many years.
     
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  4. Skate

    Skate

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    tech/a, this is exactly how others learn. (from your experience)

    Skate.
     
  5. Ann

    Ann

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    What was your personal take away lesson from tech/a's comments Skate?
     
  6. Smurf1976

    Smurf1976

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    Using any and all tools which bring benefit seems like the sensible approach to me so agreed there. It's not FA versus TA, they're not mutually exclusive.

    Human minds work differently however, sometimes very differently. You see FA and visualise it on a chart. I see one of your charts, change it into words and go and think about it well away from any visual reference (eg go for a walk).

    Different approaches suit different people. :)
     
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  7. tech/a

    tech/a No Ordinary Duck

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    Fundamental or Technical
    Same result according to brokers figures
    Over 90% fail

    So you need something different
    Standard F/A and T/A are hopeless.
     
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  8. Ann

    Ann

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    A poor workman blames his tools tech/a. How many of your trades fail?
     
  9. Skate

    Skate

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    Ann, thank you for the opportunity to unpack tech/a heartfelt post, I trust you ask with interest.

    tech/a shoes
    Most who have owned a business would be nodding in agreement when reading tech/a's post, most business owners have been his shoes.

    Crippling
    The fear of failure is crippling & no better demonstrated when venturing into business for yourself.

    Business Loan
    To be successful in securing a business loan it's needs to be secured by your family home. The first sign of worry comes from a lack of cash flow, arguments start with your suppliers, banks, you even start becoming delinquent on your rent not to mention the stress the family relationship is under - Ann, when your relationship breaks down its all over.

    What do you lose
    Your Marriage
    Your family home
    Your Car
    You lose everything (& sometimes your own life)

    HINT
    Most marriages fall apart because of money & the lack of it, (I've never seen a relationship fall apart from having too much money) financial stress can tear the most loving relationships apart.

    Business happiness is a positive cash flow
    In business, happiness is a positive cash flow. Business revolves around money, that's it in a nutshell.

    Put yourself in tech/a shoes
    Ann, if you have started a business from scratch or even purchased a business you would have understood tech/a post, a post from this heart - if not you wouldn't understand.

    Fear of failure
    Ann, everybody has a fear of failure at some level - at times we’ve all been fearful that perhaps we are not enough. Even when we know what to do, our fear can keep us from executing our plans.

    Fear related to trading
    We all feel that sinking feeling in our guts after we enter a trade and that trade go slightly against us our emotions kick in and if the fear is strong enough, we might cut the trade short to escape the unpleasantness, hijacked by our emotions encouraging us to do the wrong thing at the wrong time.

    Fear stops us from having a go
    Many people never start trading because they’re worried about losing their money. It feels like you have to spend a lot of time and energy to get it right and if you don’t, then you might lose all of your money. So fear or self-doubt keep you from getting started. The very act of getting started is much more important than getting it right.

    Ann, with additional information, please re-read tech/a post

    Skate.
     
    Faramir likes this.
  10. satanoperca

    satanoperca

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    So you have never failed?

    Or have reduced your fear of potentially failing?
     
  11. Skate

    Skate

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    Why I lean towards a coded strategy ?

    Removing your emotions
    Mechanically removing your emotions from your strategy is a big reason why systems trading is becoming so popular. Trading outside market hours also helps avoid the mania of the open market.

    Trendfollowing
    I use a weekly trendfollowing strategy & place my orders before the market opens hoping to be settled at the opening price of the day.

    It also makes backtesting simulations much easier. There are so many more advantages of a mechanical trading system than those few points listed.

    I'll be back trading on Monday, sitting on the sidelines takes its toll.

    Skate.
     
  12. Ann

    Ann

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    I don't have emotions when I trade Skate. I have my entry and exits in place before I even commit a dollar.

    I like to be in control, I would never concede my control to a mechanical program created by a third person.

    I am happy to sit and wait, patience can be its own reward. I like to circle my prey before bringing it down.
     
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  13. Skate

    Skate

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    Ann, let me repeat myself..

    What's the nice thing about people
    They are all different

    What's the nice thing about traders
    They are all different

    Skate.
     
  14. tech/a

    tech/a No Ordinary Duck

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    Discretionary index trading short and long 30-40%

    Systematic
    When it’s turned on long and short
    60% for 1 and 48% the other

    Failed heaps of times
    No fear of failure it’s expected
     
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  15. Ann

    Ann

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    I asked a simple question of you... "What was your personal take away lesson from tech/a's comments Skate?"

    I was not expecting a diatribe from you just a simple response. Addressing me by name once is sufficient, twice is permissible any more than that sounds condescending. Avoid over using someone's name, it is rude and sounds manipulative.

    I did.

    My father owned an engineering company. It convinced me it is a fool's path.

    I learnt from my father running your own business was totally rdiculous and not worth the effort.

    Loans are poison, you dance to another man and the economies tune.
    When the relationship breaks down, often your family have no where else to go and no means to leave because all your assets are 'in the business'.

    Unless you always seem to manage to find another line of credit, there is always a con to be had....my sociopathic father's teachings.

    Money has nothing to do with a good relationship. Buffet's first marriage failed, his wife complained he was too interested in making money, Amazon's owners marriage has just failed, in fact the more money one has the greater the risk for multiple marriage failures it appears....how many wives has Trump had?

    Bingo, that is my #1 FA indicator for a strong business. See FA isn't so hard if you think about it Skate!

    You have no idea how much I know about the harrowing existance of running your own business, I lived in the nightmare from birth.

    There are some emotions I can't feel. Fear is one of them, it just converts to the feeling of power. I quite welcome failure, it is a great teacher.

    However I do understand that fear can paralyze but maybe that is a good thing, it may be a person's protector.

    As I said before, I don't have emotions when I trade, I have an entry and a stop-loss level which I stay with. I am never too injured by a reversal. Although, these days they rarely occur unless I am just mucking around with a test trade, which I do sometimes.

    If you have fear, you clearly don't have confidence you know what you are doing. If you don't know what you are doing, don't trade. If one wants to trade, give yourself a budget of money you are prepared to commit to losing in order to train yourself. This then is not a loss it is an investment in education and should be regarded as such. If you are still not confident after you have invested your education fund, find another area of investment or just go for a LIC or an ETF.

    I read it slowly and carefully the first time. You have given me no additional information to warrant a re-read.
     
    Skate likes this.
  16. Ann

    Ann

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    Crikey, I would have spat the dummy and flounced off a long time ago with losses like that! More power to you for sticking with it! :)
     
  17. Skate

    Skate

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    I apologies again for being really rude to you, it was never my intentions to be manipulative.
    I have refrained from using a members [name/user] in any of my posts since you brought this to my attention & in future I'll refrain from addressing you more than once.

    Thank you Ann for bring this to my attention once again..

    Skate.
     
  18. tech/a

    tech/a No Ordinary Duck

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    All good.

    Discretionary

    6/10 at 3R wins
    4/10 at .7R losses

    Pretty tough I know!

    Systematic

    4/10 at 5.6 R wins and
    6/10 a5 1 R losses

    Tough again but long and short trading I’m happy.

    Others may do better.

    I’ve not seen any of your trades Ann so can’t comment on your trading ability.
    You seem to have a good handle on vanilla T/A

    :sneaky::sneaky:
     
  19. Value Collector

    Value Collector

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    The book is much better than the movie, the movie is for entertainment, but the book is educational.
     
  20. ducati916

    ducati916

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    While Skate, I'm sure is quite capable of defending himself if he so chose, I will do so as in my short time of reading his posts I have found him to be exceptionally polite and patient.

    Also there are some rather obvious lessons to be learned.

    So:

    "I was not expecting a diatribe from you just a simple response. "

    I suggest you look up the meaning of the underlined word.

    "Addressing me by name once is sufficient, twice is permissible any more than that sounds condescending. Avoid over using someone's name, it is rude and sounds manipulative."

    I would disagree.

    "My father owned an engineering company. It convinced me it is a fool's path."

    As a 'trader' you are self-employed. You are a 'business', unless you are employed to trade for someone [bank/hedge fund/etc].

    On a bigger picture basis: without those who engage in business, we are back to hunting/gathering. Only through specialisation/diversification of production can we continue to consume: which by definition means someone has to create and run businesses. If you are an 'employee' you are employed by a business owner.

    "I learnt from my father running your own business was totally rdiculous and not worth the effort."

    Such a generalisation is both ill-informed and disrespectful to those that do.

    "Loans are poison, you dance to another man and the economies tune.
    When the relationship breaks down, often your family have no where else to go and no means to leave because all your assets are 'in the business'."

    A 'loan' is a tool like any other. It can be prudent, it can be dangerous. Again, simply a generalisation without merit.

    "Bingo, that is my #1 FA indicator for a strong business. See FA isn't so hard if you think about it Skate!"

    As has been demonstrated on another thread, recognising legitimate cash-flow from simply cash-flow, is not as straightforward as one might imagine.

    "There are some emotions I can't feel. Fear is one of them, it just converts to the feeling of power. I quite welcome failure, it is a great teacher."

    Possibly you are unique in the human race.

    "If you have fear, you clearly don't have confidence you know what you are doing. If you don't know what you are doing, don't trade."

    Skate is referring to a 'business', not to trading. Even if it were 'trading' as a business, if you have quit your job, have taken your savings/loan/whatever and undertaken the business of trading, if your trade expectancy is below that initially contemplated and the rent/mortgage/bills/etc are due [as they always are], I would argue it is only natural to feel stress/fear.

    I would seriously consider tendering an apology to Skate.

    jog on
    duc



     
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