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Where is/can Donald Trump take US (sic)?

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Another view of The Great Trump




That was awesome. Then it got scary that he actually say all that. Then it got really really fricken scary that you're saying he now has the best of winning the Republican nominee for POTUS.

But on the bright side, if he wins the Republican will lose. They would right?
 
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Sifu can never wrong, it is just not Tao.

Grasshoppers, on the other hand..... ;)

Subjectivism is not objective, Grasshopper.

Certainly Sifu. Sifu is never wrong - just facts tend to either do not support Sifu's interpretation, or it has yet to support Sifu's insight. :D

Subjectivism [new word there Sifu?] is not Objectivism... Indeed it is not. But thy grashopper's paraphrasing of economists, political scientists and historians (and documentarians such as Ken Burns) kinda not make it Grasshopper's subjective interpretation but a widely proven and accurate account of history as we it was lived and now barely breathing.
 
Certainly Sifu. Sifu is never wrong - just facts tend to either do not support Sifu's interpretation, or it has yet to support Sifu's insight. :D

Subjectivism [new word there Sifu?] is not Objectivism... Indeed it is not. But thy grashopper's paraphrasing of economists, political scientists and historians (and documentarians such as Ken Burns) kinda not make it Grasshopper's subjective interpretation but a widely proven and accurate account of history as we it was lived and now barely breathing.

History is *always* subjective, Grasshopper. You, of all people should know that.

The predominate economic theory taught in our leftist universities is Keynesianism. Economic history is viewed through that prism, but refraction distorts the view.

Open your mind Grasshopper, this is Tao. ;)
 
History is *always* subjective, Grasshopper. You, of all people should know that.

The predominate economic theory taught in our leftist universities is Keynesianism. Economic history is viewed through that prism, but refraction distorts the view.

Open your mind Grasshopper, this is Tao. ;)

True, history is always subjective. Might have climbed the right mountain after all Sifu, ahaha.

So what do you attribute the great boom following WW2 to Sifu?

In America, we can attribute the fact that it's the only great powers left intact - Australia and NZ being the other [great powers? :D]. So with victory comes the booty and Nazi gold and world domination and all the goodies that goes with such might.

But what else? American manufacturing supplying and lending to Europe for reconstruction.

How does Europe got back on its feet? Well there's the colonies that kind of help along... but there's only so much Europe could extract from its savages right?

I think it all boils down to gov't spending and investment, thus employing the masses and building small and medium enterprises; and reaping dividends in terms of new infrastructure, new technology and innovation, a well employed and educated population... all paying their taxes and having something to pay the taxes with.

All these results in three decades of unprecedented economic growth, making Western democracy and lifestyle the envy of the world.

Things start to shift Right since Reagan and Thatcher, and now we're all about Austerity, paying more taxes, doing more sacrificing and the country can't afford anything. What the...
 
Economics is stuffed at the moment.
The world has been practicing neo classical theory and when that has failed starting to use Keynesian mechanisms to pump prime and negative interest rates (under classical theory( to start inflation. Both won't work.
The way Keynesian is meant to work is that he country saves the money and then spends it to limit the dips. If the country prints money or borrows it then this counteracts the stimulus. Its just stupid.

At least Trump doesn't seem to be a slave to this muddle headedness and the establishment who do nothing for the middle class.

If you look at the Republican options, now that Bush has gone, Trump is probably the second best after Kasich, then third Rubio. Lastly Carson and Cruz, .. what a poor choice.
in my view the only person who can knock off Hilary is Kasich. Trump will lose.
 
Then it got really really fricken scary that you're saying he now has the best of winning the Republican nominee for POTUS.
He takes trash talking to a whole new level and sends the message that it is okay to do it. It's a wonder no one has tried to bop him off.
 
He takes trash talking to a whole new level and sends the message that it is okay to do it. It's a wonder no one has tried to bop him off.

He promises things that are just impossible to do. He says things that are sheer rubbish. He denies events that have happened. He makes up events that never happened.

All the while he demands to be made leader of Great New Powerful USA.

The theory at the moment is that even if he wins Republican nomination he won't be electable. To be honest they said the same about Hitler in 1932. Didn't work out that way. Overwhelming power hungry people usually don't let details like election results stop them.

IMV the question is whether the Republican machine will allow and then get behind Trump or whether he is too ugly even for them. I fear that they will hold their nose and if he is the nominee do everything they can to get him elected and hope he can be restrained/recalibrated as a President. But if he does get in I think Trump would find/create a trigger for a State of Emergency and assume a range of autocratic powers that would let him clear away opponents and policies he doesn't want.
 
I think you have it summed Bas.,

Repeat of 1930s in political moves and markets. The freightening fact is that it embraces the whole planet this time with nowhere to hide.
 
Just making it up...

Yep politicians tell porkies. They can be creative with facts. They even lie. But Donald Trump takes this to a another universe and when he has finished his supporters or even neutral people have been mind xucked.

Example
A day after a black activist was kicked and punched by voters at a Donald Trump rally in Alabama, Trump tweeted an image packed with racially loaded and incorrect murder statistics. Clearly it was designed to take peoples minds off the image of a black guy being beaten up at one of his rallies. Looked like this
2015-11-23 11_56_07-Donald J. Trump on Twitter_ __@SeanSean252_ @WayneDupreeShow @Rockprincess81.jpg

In the real world what actually happens ? Well firstly the Crime Statistics Bureau in San Francisco doesn't exist
So the first lie starts with fabricating a non existent "official sounding" organization as your reference.

None of the numbers are supported by official sources. The figures on black-on-white homicides and white-on-white homicides are wildly inaccurate.

Check out just how much of a liar Donald Trump is on the site.

Trump's Pants on Fire tweet that blacks killed 81% of white homicide victims

By Jon Greenberg on Monday, November 23rd, 2015 at 3:35 p.m.

The most glaring lie? Trump said 81% of White were killed by blacks. (Scary stuff what) The reality (as far as could be determined) 15% of whites were killed by blacks

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...mp/trump-tweet-blacks-white-homicide-victims/
 
I would no more trust Trump than Turnbull if elected.

Trump has a real chance in the US, because it's about getting voters to turn out and vote voluntarily.

There are a lot of US voters fed up with H.Clinton.
 
He takes trash talking to a whole new level and sends the message that it is okay to do it. It's a wonder no one has tried to bop him off.

The US populace is by and large conditioned to admire individuals of fame, no matter how vulgar they may be. They crave incipient causes, thus their penchant for fads..... we aren't much better. Brain washing on a massive scale via the media.

I remember being taught that birds flock because of some magnetic this and that and blah blah, then someone fed a chaos algorithm into a superdupa computer and lo and behold if it didn't simulate the birds apparently all following the leader in some organised structure. Americans are like that, dancing to a self perpetuating entropic cadence IMO. ;)
 
Only to those who lack objectivity of that history ..... Tismeism :rolleyes:

Yea well, we can't all be Irish and see the British for what they are [that kinda make sense, if you really think about it :D ].

Recall this paragraph in some undergrad psycho text where the author was saying how it is hard to imagine that one of the most culturally advanced and civilised country in the world - Germany - could commit such heinous crime against humanity.

At the time I thought that's true. Following the guy's argument about how a country that produce Beethoven, Carl Marx [:D] and the Volkswagen could see no wrong in waging war and genocide. Must be the evil Hitler and his demonic grip on the depressed and fallen people in their weakest hour etc.

No doubt Hitler is all messed up and Nazi Germany was not the place you'd want to be unless you're of pure blood. But beside the singling out of European Jewry for extermination, all the crimes and debauchery of the Third Reich are simply things all Imperial Powers throughout the ages do. That's just messed up when you think about it.

Caesar the first climbed to fame mainly because of his victories against the Gaul - wiping out about 1/3 of the population; Then Rome kinda continue on expanding as it has and civilising Egypt and take its grains for the fee, repeat the process all over the region. There's the Chinese starting with a small state way up North somewhere and now count over 100 different ethnic groups as its people - the majority being the Han (and they were kept busy for the last couple hundred years dealing with the Europeans, the Japanese, and the American).

Then of course there's the Europeans, slavery, colonialism and Great Power politics and so call grand strategy destroying entire countries and people.

In the Nuclear age with easy travel, easy access to guns and firepower (in America) - the old way of politics and empire is probably not as profitable (and safe) for the imperial power as it used to be. But these politicians and their planners somehow doesn't seem to think about it.

The current strategy seem to be - let's do what all powers have done, only do it deadlier; and if there's blowbacks well we'll monitor everybody, abandon these pesky civil rights and legal principles so that those who do no wrong have nothing to worry about (they hope and pray) and blowback will be kept at a minimal. Then goes billions to hundreds of billions a year to keep a sharper eye out for a needle in a bigger more complicated haystack - at home; abroad more deadlier weapons, better bases and armoured vehicles and drones and robotics to do the dirty work (and create more enemies and dead people).

All for what? It's insane. Forget about the idea of killing people or causing their death indirectly.

It's quite stupid. It's like me being a billionaire and instead of using money to buy stuff I use it to buy guns, hire and recruit goons and go break down the local deli to take their stuff home. Then to prevent retaliation I spend more money to hire security guards, post them every couple metre around my massive fence perimeter and all over the grounds. Then to keep the little kids happy so that they won't see their old man as a violent crazy lunatic I'd have to pay the media and a few comedians to tell stories of my virtue and glory and benevolent.

Whatever happen to just buying things? Especially when you have the money and it keep your hands clean.

Yet these idiotic politicians talks about security and wiping out people and us and them - all in the same breath.
It's amazing humans are still around. Maybe not for much longer the way it's going.
 
Bob Dylan

Masters of War
Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain.

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud.

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins.

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do.

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul.

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead.



 
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Yea well, we can't all be Irish and see the British for what they are [that kinda make sense, if you really think about it :D ].

Recall this paragraph in some undergrad psycho text where the author was saying how it is hard to imagine that one of the most culturally advanced and civilised country in the world - Germany - could commit such heinous crime against humanity.

At the time I thought that's true. Following the guy's argument about how a country that produce Beethoven, Carl Marx [:D] and the Volkswagen could see no wrong in waging war and genocide. Must be the evil Hitler and his demonic grip on the depressed and fallen people in their weakest hour etc.

No doubt Hitler is all messed up and Nazi Germany was not the place you'd want to be unless you're of pure blood. But beside the singling out of European Jewry for extermination, all the crimes and debauchery of the Third Reich are simply things all Imperial Powers throughout the ages do. That's just messed up when you think about it.

Caesar the first climbed to fame mainly because of his victories against the Gaul - wiping out about 1/3 of the population; Then Rome kinda continue on expanding as it has and civilising Egypt and take its grains for the fee, repeat the process all over the region. There's the Chinese starting with a small state way up North somewhere and now count over 100 different ethnic groups as its people - the majority being the Han (and they were kept busy for the last couple hundred years dealing with the Europeans, the Japanese, and the American).

Then of course there's the Europeans, slavery, colonialism and Great Power politics and so call grand strategy destroying entire countries and people.

In the Nuclear age with easy travel, easy access to guns and firepower (in America) - the old way of politics and empire is probably not as profitable (and safe) for the imperial power as it used to be. But these politicians and their planners somehow doesn't seem to think about it.

The current strategy seem to be - let's do what all powers have done, only do it deadlier; and if there's blowbacks well we'll monitor everybody, abandon these pesky civil rights and legal principles so that those who do no wrong have nothing to worry about (they hope and pray) and blowback will be kept at a minimal. Then goes billions to hundreds of billions a year to keep a sharper eye out for a needle in a bigger more complicated haystack - at home; abroad more deadlier weapons, better bases and armoured vehicles and drones and robotics to do the dirty work (and create more enemies and dead people).

All for what? It's insane. Forget about the idea of killing people or causing their death indirectly.

It's quite stupid. It's like me being a billionaire and instead of using money to buy stuff I use it to buy guns, hire and recruit goons and go break down the local deli to take their stuff home. Then to prevent retaliation I spend more money to hire security guards, post them every couple metre around my massive fence perimeter and all over the grounds. Then to keep the little kids happy so that they won't see their old man as a violent crazy lunatic I'd have to pay the media and a few comedians to tell stories of my virtue and glory and benevolent.

Whatever happen to just buying things? Especially when you have the money and it keep your hands clean.

Yet these idiotic politicians talks about security and wiping out people and us and them - all in the same breath.
It's amazing humans are still around. Maybe not for much longer the way it's going
.

Nations act through their politicians, the politicians interpret the pulse of the nation and react. The Germans were humiliated at having lost WW1 then having their old foe, the French insist, on punishing them with reparations.

It's the poms who gave the Germans impetus in warfare by hiring them from the Holy Roman Empire and giving them the "Hessian" troop title in the fight with the British colonials in the civil war that has since been renamed the "American Revolutionary War". Once they learned how to fight they could see the opportunities for empire unfold.
 
I think the American people and Trump are being treated a bit histrionically in this thread.

Trump is popular because:
(a) He is not part of the Republican establishment which is pro war and paid for by arms manufacturers. I mean they want to go Iran again!
(b) Has stated that wars are a waste of money.
(c) Appears to say what he means and is not owned by big corporations.
(d) Is more moderate than many of the opposition candidates.

Sure, he is a bit of a demagogue but under the democratic system he will be forced to make policies if he wants to beat Hilary. Comparing him to Hitler is tosh.
 
Nations act through their politicians, the politicians interpret the pulse of the nation and react. The Germans were humiliated at having lost WW1 then having their old foe, the French insist, on punishing them with reparations.

It's the poms who gave the Germans impetus in warfare by hiring them from the Holy Roman Empire and giving them the "Hessian" troop title in the fight with the British colonials in the civil war that has since been renamed the "American Revolutionary War". Once they learned how to fight they could see the opportunities for empire unfold.

Pretty sure the Romans would have given the German their start. What with Augustus losing a couple of his Legions to them Germanic tribe and thought it's best not to expand beyond the Danube or something.

That probably gave those barbarians some propaganda towards doing what Romes only did. Hail Hitler and Hail Caesar and Czar and Kaiser all came from Rome right?

Aren't White people glad to have Muslims being the punching bag for that storied Clash of Civilisation stuff?

What was the rationale when them cousins were at each other's throat I wonder.
 
Pretty sure the Romans would have given the German their start. What with Augustus losing a couple of his Legions to them Germanic tribe and thought it's best not to expand beyond the Danube or something.

That probably gave those barbarians some propaganda towards doing what Romes only did. Hail Hitler and Hail Caesar and Czar and Kaiser all came from Rome right?

Aren't White people glad to have Muslims being the punching bag for that storied Clash of Civilisation stuff?

What was the rationale when them cousins were at each other's throat I wonder.

The British Empire was different to the past empires in that while it started out to have a piece of the Spanish/Portuguese action, it became the first industrial focus empire and didn't mind training and financing foreign armies if it meant wealth creation. WW1 was the first of the mercantile wars where cornering trade was the prize. The Brits didn't want to cripple Germany after it because they wanted a strong trading partnership to remain.
 
The British Empire was different to the past empires in that while it started out to have a piece of the Spanish/Portuguese action, it became the first industrial focus empire and didn't mind training and financing foreign armies if it meant wealth creation. WW1 was the first of the mercantile wars where cornering trade was the prize. The Brits didn't want to cripple Germany after it because they wanted a strong trading partnership to remain.

Aren't all empires about wealth creation? Just a few barbarians got to be chained or whipped or sent to meet their makers if that's what it takes.

I thought the Brits have to train and finance colonised subjects as foot soldiers because there aren't that many Brits around to do the footing. Especially so during WW1 when a fair number of them were shipping in from all over the world to help the motherland against the Kaisers and Turks.

I don't know the detail of WW1, but from some economic book I heard that Keynes, as part of the British delegate to Versailles were so upset by the treaty and terms put on Germany that he quit and wrote some treatise - which Hitler later use to justify tearing it up and start the Third Reich. So i don't think the Brits, or at least its high command at the time, were caring too much about the burden on the Germans. Much like Greece and Spain today... crippling the heck out of those countries, forcing them to sell their national assets to repay the bankers.

But yea, maybe the Brits back in post WW1 didn't mean to cripple Germany, it just work out that way. Though a few smarter Brits knew it would but weren't listened to.
 
I think the American people and Trump are being treated a bit histrionically in this thread.

Trump is popular because:
(a) He is not part of the Republican establishment which is pro war and paid for by arms manufacturers. I mean they want to go Iran again!
(b) Has stated that wars are a waste of money.
(c) Appears to say what he means and is not owned by big corporations.
(d) Is more moderate than many of the opposition candidates.

Sure, he is a bit of a demagogue but under the democratic system he will be forced to make policies if he wants to beat Hilary. Comparing him to Hitler is tosh.

Trump is big corporations. He should be the poster child for corporate welfare seeing how he suk at his businesses and declare bankruptcies more than a few times. I heard the dude's casino filed for bankruptcy three times over six years... Must take a lot of talent and trying to go bankrupt that often operating a casino.

He might be more moderate than, say Cruz; and I did heard him saying let's get out of Syria and let Russia bomb ISIS etc. But that does not mean he's a peacenik and not a warmonger. Given his ego and his ability to "delegate", it doesn't take a Machiavelli to influence the guy and get him to push a couple buttons.

While I don't think anyone is comparing Trump to Hitler, I think it's true that the current political and economic climate is very very close to the conditions that led to the rise of Hitler and fascism. I mean, the fact that an idiot like Trump is leading tells us a lot.

That not many Republican voters trust the current establishment - they want change; they know they're getting a raw deal and all the established and typical candidate are in the pockets of big money. That's a dangerous place to be in a democracy, or in any gov't. You do not want the population to mistrust and find the established order working and serving the elite while neglecting the masses like them.

Though in a democracy with well established rights, it might end with a peaceful revolution - like the Civil Rights movement, maybe. But if we look at the rights and legal principles guaranteed under the US constitution... a fair number of those have been abandoned or removed completely in favour of war, of "security" and for corporate power and influence. Such as the US Supreme Court ruling on those SuperPac and allow pretty much unlimited money into politics - that money is free speech or something; then Corporation as people; or ruled recently that a gov't agency cannot enforce an EPA order that big power plants curb their emission to protect the environment - a law that currently exists and the court agreed with the corporations' lawyers that it shouldn't be implemented until after they sue the EPA/Gov in court first. It's an existing law but it shouldn't be permitted?

Anyway... most of the safeguards against internal revolutions and civil unrest have been systematically removed past few decades. It better be reinstated or else it will follow what had followed only some 90 to 100 years before all over Europe and the world. I mean, Czar Nicolas was still alive and his Russian empire was still his 100 years ago. Don't think he or anyone would have guessed in a couple year's time it's all over.

I think it was Han Fei Tzu that said that it is the people that carry the ship of state. Just as the water carry the ship, it too could flip it.

When you have somehting like 162 families donating more than half of all political contributions; or some 1 percent owning more than half the wealth of the US; or 62 individuals owning more wealth than half the world... I don't think it's going to be safe the way it's going. Something have to change, and hoping that there's enough smart people with power right now to kinda do something about it before a few hundred million people have to die to spin the world around.
 
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