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And I was talking about a job for services rendered while a person was in politics, an example you asked for but as usual you try and divert or stretch the boundaries.
Anyway this discussion is...
Electric cars?
- Thread starter tothemax6
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Anyway this discussion is...
Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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And I asked for an example of where this has happened, so far you haven’t shown one.
it’s almost like suggesting the only boards that need lawyers are those that plan of breaking the law, it’s a crazy assumption
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Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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I didn't ignore it, I thoroughly explored the idea, did some research into it and couldn't see how it was true, I then presented you with the facts and you chose to ignore them.
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I'm not going to argue anymore unless you pay.
Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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cool, just don't accuse me of ignoring your example, when I spent multiple posts talking about it.I'm not going to argue anymore unless you pay.
JohnDe
La dolce vita
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It has been a month since I picked up the new Model Y, and I can see why it is fast becoming a big seller. My wife drives it 80% of the time, and we both love it. Smooth, quiet, practical, the electric fold down rear seats is a great addition that we use every week.
Despite only offering two models locally, the Model 3 and Model Y, Tesla still outsold brands like Audi (1662 sales), BMW (2641 sales), Honda (1511 sales), LDV (1581 sales), Mercedes-Benz (2570 sales), MG (3896 sales), Nissan (3468 sales) and Volkswagen (2954 sales) last month.
This makes the Model Y the third best-seller car for the month, behind only the Ford Ranger (6293 sales) and Toyota HiLux (6195 sales).
Tesla demolishes Chinese brands in Australia: US electric car brand posts best sales in Australia this year with the updated 2025 Tesla Model Y only outsold by the Toyota HiLux and Ford Ranger
Tesla has clawed itself out of its sales slump in Australia, achieving its best monthly sales figure in the past 12 months.
According to the sales data from the Electric Vehicle Council (EVC), the US electric vehicle (EV) specialist sold a total of 4589 vehicles during June 2025. It’s worth noting that this is technically down 2.0 per cent year-on-year.
Despite only offering two models locally, the Model 3 and Model Y, Tesla still outsold brands like Audi (1662 sales), BMW (2641 sales), Honda (1511 sales), LDV (1581 sales), Mercedes-Benz (2570 sales), MG (3896 sales), Nissan (3468 sales) and Volkswagen (2954 sales) last month.
Chinese car brands like BYD (8156 sales) and GWM (5464 sales) did outsell Tesla for the month, but both of these offer many more models, as well as ones with internal-combustion engines.
In the first half of 2025 Tesla sold a total of 14,146 vehicles. This is down 38.8 per cent from the same period last year.
The majority of Tesla’s June sales were for the popular and recently updated Tesla Model Y electric SUV. In June a total of 3547 examples were sold, which is up 18.96 per cent year-on-year.
This makes the Model Y the third best-seller car for the month, behind only the Ford Ranger (6293 sales) and Toyota HiLux (6195 sales).
o far this year a total of 10,431 examples of the Model Y have been sold, which is down 16.6 per cent from the same period last year.
Tesla sold 1132 examples of the Model 3 electric sedan in June. This is down 36.3 per cent year-on-year.
Despite this sales dive, the Model 3 still outsold the BYD Seal (627 sales), Hyundai Ioniq 6 (9 sales), MG4 (251 sales), Polestar 2 (135 sales) and Polestar 4 (174 sales) for the month.
In the first six months of 2025 Tesla sold a total of 3715 Model 3 examples, which is down a steep 64.95 per cent from the same period last year.
The updated Model 3 has been on sale for over 18 months now and hasn’t received any significant changes since. This could likely explain why sales have dropped off so steeply.
Looking to the future it’s unclear where Tesla will expand from its two model line-up locally. The Model X and Model S electric flagships are no longer produced in right-hand drive, along with the Cybertruck pickup.
The latter is still being evaluated for a local launch, however, with the team seeking a briefing on what changes would be required to meet market-specific Australian Design Rule (ADR) regulations.
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Playing catch-up here, but this link gives more detail.
Key is the 6-minute battery swap time plus ability to operate effectively in temperatures down to minus 40 celsius.
So operating this EV fleet is 20% more efficient than its former units, and increase incrementally as AI continues to optimise route planning and traffic flows as it replaces a further 200 of its human driven, diesels unit.
Knobby22
Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast
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China in trouble. Xi Jinping admits they have over capacity problems in a number of industries caused by government at all levels being too involved in supporting manufacturing.
Article in the Age behind paywall but this is my favourite line.
While the number of EV manufacturers has fallen from about 500 five years ago to about 60 today, only three of them are profitable, and they rely on exports for that profitability. Earlier this year, market leader BYD – the world’s biggest EV maker – slashed domestic prices by up to 34 per cent,
Article in the Age behind paywall but this is my favourite line.
While the number of EV manufacturers has fallen from about 500 five years ago to about 60 today, only three of them are profitable, and they rely on exports for that profitability. Earlier this year, market leader BYD – the world’s biggest EV maker – slashed domestic prices by up to 34 per cent,
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With a population of one billion China should be able to support a number of manufacturers of virtually anything.
That they rely on exports indicates to me that there are two distinct classes, the ultra rich who can afford to buy multiple Lamborghinis and the much more extensive and repressed under class who are just managing to eke out a living.
China's "success" is only for the very few it seems.
Knobby22
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No, it is just over capacity.
30 firms competing too hard. Xi will reduce them by removing some, you watch.
When the article is released from the paywall I will publish it.
JohnDe
La dolce vita
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Some good advice -
Knobby22
Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast
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link
The home-grown threat to China that has rattled Xi Jinping
Donald Trump’s trade war is not the only thing on Xi Jinping’s mind.
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An American shipping company has banned electric vehicles from travelling on its vessels following a series of fires at sea.
The latest fire saw the Morning Midas car carrier burn at sea for three weeks with more than 3000 cars on board before capsizing and sinking to a depth of more than 16,000 feet near Alaska.
A statement issued by the company said that “due to increasing concern for the safety of transporting vehicles powered by large lithium-ion batteries, Matson is suspending acceptance of used or new electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid vehicles for transport aboard its vessels,” it said.
“Effective immediately, we have ceased accepting new bookings for these shipments to/from all trades.”
The company says it “continues to support industry efforts to develop comprehensive standards and procedures to address fire risk posed by lithium-ion batteries at sea and plans to resume acceptance of them when appropriate safety solutions that meet our requirements can be implemented.
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So we have to wonder if the supply of EVs coming here is under threat, as well as concerns about their general safety.
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Good story on Electrek about a real world test of self driving cars. How would these self driving cars respond to tricky but quite realistic scenarios o0n the road.
Intriguing read.
Jameson Dow | Jul 26 2025 - 6:00 am PT
377 Comments
Chinese media outlet Dongchedi closed down a real highway for a multi-day test of 36 different car driver assist systems in complicated, dangerous real-world driving situations, and most came up severely lacking – though Tesla escaped the tests relatively unscathed.
electrek.co
Intriguing read.
Chinese real-world self-driving test: 36 cars, 216 crashes, with Tesla on top
Jameson Dow | Jul 26 2025 - 6:00 am PT 377 Comments
Chinese media outlet Dongchedi closed down a real highway for a multi-day test of 36 different car driver assist systems in complicated, dangerous real-world driving situations, and most came up severely lacking – though Tesla escaped the tests relatively unscathed.
Chinese real-world self-driving test: 36 cars, 216 crashes, with Tesla on top
Chinese media tested the driver-assist systems of 36 cars in real highway situations and had a wide range in results, but Tesla fared well.
electrek.co
Knobby22
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EV sales now over 10% in Australia despite no subsidies unlike giant Ute's which are subsidised. eg Ram Trucks.
Getting closer to the tipping point. Still slightly too pricy for me.
thedriven.io
Getting closer to the tipping point. Still slightly too pricy for me.
Australian EV sales surge to record 10.3 pct share, as Tesla, BYD and Geely dominate
Australian EV sales surge to new highs, hitting record market share of 10.3 per cent in June on the back of increasing competition and EOFY incentives.
thedriven.io
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Tesla's affordable EV is 'just' a stripped-back Model Y, Musk confirms
Tesla CEO Elon Musk has confirmed its incoming, affordable electric car is "just" a cheaper Model Y SUV, rather than a completely new model.
20% cheaper, without a sunroof, now they are talking sense, all they need to do now is put a small instrument pod in front of the driver and I may buy one.
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I want to highlight this critical issue with AI and here specific to self driving..which is not EV only but discussed mostly here
From Basilio self driving test article
--
given systems showed wildly differing results in the same situation, it makes one think that some of the systems might have just had a good or bad day, and that a future test could flip the results completely. The problem is, we don’t know exactly what went wrong, because we can’t examine the rules in the code that led to these decisions… because there is no ruleset behind the machine learning models used by ADAS systems these days.
Every car except the Model X failed to avoid the boar, though a few cars slowed enough for a minor collision
In the video, DCAR interviewed Lu Guang Quan, from the Beijing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics, who pointed out this behavior as a concern with today’s ADAS systems. Since so many of them use machine learning to learn the rules of driving, when mistakes happen it’s impossible to figure out what rule in the computer’s programming might have led to the error.
“A learning model is just collecting experience. It knows how to drive but not why,” said Lu. “These so-called ‘long tail scenarios’ barely ever happen, but the risk is sky high. You won’t find them in any training dataset. The systems straight up haven’t learned this stuff.”
Lu said that “rule based models would provide stronger failsafes,” because then it would be possible to correct errors in the code, rather than the black box that machine learning models currently offer
From Basilio self driving test article
--
given systems showed wildly differing results in the same situation, it makes one think that some of the systems might have just had a good or bad day, and that a future test could flip the results completely. The problem is, we don’t know exactly what went wrong, because we can’t examine the rules in the code that led to these decisions… because there is no ruleset behind the machine learning models used by ADAS systems these days.
Every car except the Model X failed to avoid the boar, though a few cars slowed enough for a minor collision
In the video, DCAR interviewed Lu Guang Quan, from the Beijing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics, who pointed out this behavior as a concern with today’s ADAS systems. Since so many of them use machine learning to learn the rules of driving, when mistakes happen it’s impossible to figure out what rule in the computer’s programming might have led to the error.
“A learning model is just collecting experience. It knows how to drive but not why,” said Lu. “These so-called ‘long tail scenarios’ barely ever happen, but the risk is sky high. You won’t find them in any training dataset. The systems straight up haven’t learned this stuff.”
Lu said that “rule based models would provide stronger failsafes,” because then it would be possible to correct errors in the code, rather than the black box that machine learning models currently offer
Knobby22
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Good points. Machine learning, how is the knowledge fed back from the field? I don't think it generally is, just the test cars used by the companies. Maybe rules would be better but maybe they can't define them well enough?
There is a lot of problems with recognition that Lidar is supposed to solve and doesn't seem to have done a good enough job. Also the indecision by the systems was quite worrying. you would think they would be faster but they are second guessing.
The cars were level 2 autonomy, they were not claiming level 4 and the ability to self drive (but I am sure they meant to do better).
Tesla shouldn't be that happy with that result. If they are releasing soon they should be doing better but I know that system only uses cameras and they are now working with Lidar (after a change of heart by Musk) so probably understand the problems.
Would have liked the Waymo Level 4 system in the test. They have much more real life experience and would have shat it in I believe.