The state of the economy at the street level

[wayneL]

possibly Wayne but what's hard about numbering 1-7 or 1-12 or 1 above the line to give the party of choice to distribute the preferences as they see fit.

I agree it's not hard if you have an understanding of the low level complexity of the system, yet walk down Midland Gate and interview people; how many truly understand or are even remotely interested? I've actually done this and IME it it less than 10%.

How much discussion in the media is there on the policies of minor parties, apart from strawmanning their platform?

Who knows the complete platform of any of the minors, or indeed any of the Majors apart from the headline promises ( which are 99% lies anyway)?

But I come back to me original point, most people have NFI.

 

[divs4ever]

possibly Wayne but what's hard about numbering 1-7 or 1-12 or 1 above the line to give the party of choice to distribute the preferences as they see fit.

the hard bit is in the tallying

somebody ( like me ) will cherry-pick individual candidates and even zig-zag across party lines

i might despise the top ranking and vote him/her absolutely last ( or maybe just last in that party list )

 

[wayneL]

Albanese won the the election fair and square whether right wing voters accept reality or not. get over it!.

Labor won in a landslide this time, Dutton wasn't a popular choice for opposition leader.

When did I dispute that? I fact I often have pointed out that I'm not a supporter of the current iteration of the Liberals... and I am allowed to be disappointed with the result without disputing it, or not accepting it. I would be equally disappointed with a Liberal win TBH.

If you're paying attention I haven't said anything disparaging about Labor voters, merely pointing out that there is little understanding of the system which is objectivity true.

 

[divs4ever]

Albanese won the the election fair and square whether right wing voters accept reality or not. get over it!.

Labor won in a landslide this time, Dutton wasn't a popular choice for opposition leader.

i didn't even like him when he was a low-ranking member in the party when i resided in that electorate .

but the Libs know how to spot talent .. and evict them

 

[farmerge]

the hard bit is in the tallying

somebody ( like me ) will cherry-pick individual candidates and even zig-zag across party lines

i might despise the top ranking and vote him/her absolutely last ( or maybe just last in that party list )

Nothing wrong with as you as exercising your vote as you want it to be.

 

[farmerge]

I agree it's not hard if you have an understanding of the low level complexity of the system, yet walk down Midland Gate and interview people; how many truly understand or are even remotely interested? I've actually done this and IME it it less than 10%.

How much discussion in the media is there on the policies of minor parties, apart from strawmanning their platform?

Who knows the complete platform of any of the minors, or indeed any of the Majors apart from the headline promises ( which are 99% lies anyway)?

But I come back to me original point, most people have NFI.

Can't answer that Wayne because in my schooling at Primary School level we were educated in the voting system, so to me its as easy as. Had a couple of school trips to Parliament House in Perth and had a pretty good idea how it worked all those years ago.

 

[Craton]

I agree it's not hard if you have an understanding of the low level complexity of the system, yet walk down Midland Gate and interview people; how many truly understand or are even remotely interested? I've actually done this and IME it it less than 10%.

How much discussion in the media is there on the policies of minor parties, apart from strawmanning their platform?

Who knows the complete platform of any of the minors, or indeed any of the Majors apart from the headline promises ( which are 99% lies anyway)?

But I come back to me original point, most people have NFI.

As the offspring of migrant parents, little was passed onto me regarding the workings of our democracy. Hell, in the strong union movement days and dad being a union member, all he'd say re. elections was something like, "...union members vote labor..."

When I was old enough to vote I had no idea that voting was complusory. My first voting experience was that I quickly learnt one has to vote because I was fined for not voting in the local council election. P!ssed me off, cost me a third of my weekly and piddly first year apprentice wage as I had NFI!

In the first instance, I blame our education system.
The preferential system et all and how our vote is counted AND complusory should be a mandatory part of the curriculum.

My POV is that our federal, state and to a lesser extent local elections have always been presented as a two horse race.
Labor or Libs, one or the other.

Of interest and FWIW, called into Mitre10 on the way to vote last Saturday and on finishing up, mentioned to the staffer to have a happy election. The young lad (early 20's) asked and I quote, "Is that today? Have I missed it?"
Told him nope, he had until 6pm. Luckily the store closed at 2.30pm.

FFS, even in this connected world where all and sundry are glued to their mobile devices, there must be so many that pass through the cracks.
The way I see it, this is a far bigger issue. Engaging the constituent in having an interest in the political parties and party policies, realising that one's vote is more than just having one's name crossed off the electoral roll and, that we have choices in where our vote goes.

I totally agree that bugger all is mentioned regarding minor parties and the policies thereof, well not until elected that is. With the internet, thankfully, those of us interested can make ourselves informed. I sure did!

But NFI, that is one hell of a sad and sorry state to be in...

 

[Craton]

Can't answer that Wayne because in my schooling at Primary School level we were educated in the voting system, so to me its as easy as. Had a couple of school trips to Parliament House in Perth and had a pretty good idea how it worked all those years ago.

Lucky you! Wished that were true for me in the far west of NSW.

 

[divs4ever]

As the offspring of migrant parents, little was passed onto me regarding the workings of our democracy. Hell, in the strong union movement days and dad being a union member, all he'd say re. elections was something like, "...union members vote labor..."

and the first union i ( was forced to join by the management ) stabbed to workers in the back ( without telling members of the changes they agreed to ) that lot got evicted ( from the entire state ) but later the replacement became equally corrupted

and that started a sequence of unhappy outcomes when a union member .. over the decades

lucky for me , not long after i was finally allowed to vote ( because they lowered the age )
not so great an outcome for the ALP

From the Archives, 1973: Australia to lower the voting age to 18

On February 28, 1973, the newly installed Labor government introduced its first piece of legislation to parliament, a bill to allow 18-year-olds to vote in Federal parliament. It was described by one government minister as “an historic occasion – an occasion too long delayed.”

www.smh.com.au

but thank you Gough i no longer had to worry about betting illegally on course ( or in the TAB )

as a side hustle

 

[over9k]

It's a problem worldwide and another factor as to why manufacturing will be difficult to ramp up; most of the young do the laborious work, and we're an aging population globally.

This is also why the trades are making the kind of money they are - they're a young man's game and young men are reducing in number.

UK has a first past the past system and suffered a similar outcome, Labour less than a third and ended up with a massive majority, so I don't think that's the answer.

The great problem with our system is that very few actually understand how it works, basically voting as if it was a first past the post system... ie believing that they may waste their vote if they vote outside of the Majors.

The cause of this is twofold.

1/ the major parties perpetuating this notion.

2/ a complete and utter failure of the AEC to educate the public on how it works.

Also I believe that mandatory voting is both illiberal and forces the politically disengaged to make a decision they have no right to make.

Nah, this is deliberate. Kind of like how even the most basic of money skills are no longer taught in school, we used to have classes explaining the systems we lived under and why and how they worked, it was called "civics", and it's now effectively non-existent.

Important stuff like economics, civics etc have been replaced with far more important subjects like new gender pronouns.

The fact that the idiots running the education system and dumbing the public down on things like economics in favour of gender pronouns cannot see that they're doing the establishment's work for them is just... ugh.

The lack of self awareness of these people is staggering.

 

[wayneL]

Nah, this is deliberate. Kind of like how even the most basic of money skills are no longer taught in school, we used to have classes explaining the systems we lived under and why and how they worked, it was called "civics", and it's now effectively non-existent.

I can't disagree that this is also a factor. I have a young client at uni studying political science (and have had a few of these over the years) and is completely ignorant of these factors.

I have to be very careful so I don't lose the client but I have completely flummoxed her with some gentle questions along these lines.

 

[over9k]

I can't disagree that this is also a factor. I have a young client at uni studying political science (and have had a few of these over the years) and is completely ignorant of these factors.

I have to be very careful so I don't lose the client but I have completely flummoxed her with some gentle questions along these lines.

If she doesn't have some kind of nepotistic ticket into being a special advisor or similiar I'd advise her to drop her degree and do something different. PoliSci or PPE are pure nepotism-track degrees.

I can't actually think of a discipline in which competence counts for less.

 

[wayneL]

If she doesn't have some kind of nepotistic ticket into being a special advisor or similiar I'd advise her to drop her degree and do something different. PoliSci or PPE are pure nepotism-track degrees.

I can't actually think of a discipline in which competence counts for less.

I laughed above because you are so spot on and her desired career path is exactly that. She's a lovely girl, I like her, but.... Sheesh!

 

[farmerge]

Lucky you! Wished that were true for me in the far west of NSW.

After reading these current posts of How to Vote, I guess iIwas lucky in that we had a "proper" teacher in those days who thought that learning how to vote and what it meant to vote was very important.
We even had "elections" to vote a leader and his/her deputy with primary and preferential votes, and then all gathered around to see how that panned out. Obviously, no classmates' names were on the ballet papers just as it is today.

 

[wayneL]

After reading these current posts of How to Vote, I guess iIwas lucky in that we had a "proper" teacher in those days who thought that learning how to vote and what it meant to vote was very important.
We even had "elections" to vote a leader and his/her deputy with primary and preferential votes, and then all gathered around to see how that panned out. Obviously, no classmates' names were on the ballet papers just as it is today.

I am not that much younger than you and arrived in Australia when I was in grade six, and we had nothing in school along those lines whatsoever.

 

[divs4ever]

We even had "elections" to vote a leader

nope , in high school , the class captain was selected because he was a devout coward ( so most of the class bullied him for 5 years ) i was one of his few friends because i didn't bully him ( despite being labeled the worst bully in the school .. for 4 of those years ) and laughably he about one and a half times my size .. well at least until he starting growing in grade `11 ( and i didn't )

so he was 'drafted' to CC

but voting/elections in a public school and in a habitual ALP electorate .. half of them in other classes only learned X so they could vote ( ALP ) later

 

[farmerge]

I am not that much younger than you and arrived in Australia when I was in grade six, and we had nothing in school along those lines whatsoever.

It wasn't in the school curriculum just this particular teacher was a "real" teacher.
We all leant so much from him.
It was a year of great learning and happiness which still resonates with me today about 65 years on.

 

[wayneL]

It wasn't in the school curriculum just this particular teacher was a "real" teacher.
We all leant so much from him.
It was a year of great learning and happiness which still resonates with me today about 65 years on.

I had a teacher in social studies who tried to teach us many things about life and law. We were terrified of him but he is the one I remember most as having try to give us such life skills. After all these years, much respect.

Unfortunately never got on to the voting system.

 

[farmerge]

I had a teacher in social studies who tried to teach us many things about life and law. We were terrified of him but he is the one I remember most as having try to give us such life skills. After all these years, much respect.

Unfortunately never got on to the voting system.

In High School In 3rd year we had one of the best teachers ever, who taught Social Studies.
He was a formidable bloke standing about 6'4'', was a ruckman for East Perth for 3 or 4 years before winning a scholarship to the USA.
When he returned he became the Vice Chancellor of Note Dame University at Fremantle.
I might add he would stay back at school until 5pm every day, and if we wanted to, he was there for 1.5 hours extra teaching.
Not too many did not take up this offer.

 

[wayneL]

In High School In 3rd year we had one of the best teachers ever, who taught Social Studies.
He was a formidable bloke standing about 6'4'', was a ruckman for East Perth for 3 or 4 years before winning a scholarship to the USA.
When he returned he became the Vice Chancellor of Note dame University at Fremantle.
I might add he would stay back at school until 5pm every day, and if we wanted to, he was there for 1.5 hours extra teaching.
Not too many did not take up this offer.

Such teachers are very rare.

My fellow, Mr Chapman was his name, was an officer in the air force reserve and got many of of us along to cadets out of respect for his benevolent authority (even if we were totally terrified of him). He is the only teacher I truly respected, or even remember their name.

Best time of my youth TBH.