Weekend at Bernie's 2020

[SirRumpole]

make a list of the countries that have tried and succeeded with socialism, which is 0.

Sweden ? Finland ? Norway ?

 

[noirua]

List of presidents of the United States by age
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States_by_age

 

[luutzu]

This guy lived through it all.
https://www.ckaleb.com/growing-up-in-revolution/

Send him some coin if you have spare change. He has been posting for years and gives insights into the madness of socialist governments.

Socialist dictators ruined the country, not sanctions. Socialism is a disease on freedom's and peoples rights once it moves past a certain point.

You're mixing Communism with Socialism.

I heard from quite a few experts' interview that Venezuela isn't really a Socialist state at all. A lot of its major enterprises are privately owned, not state run or control.

The media aren't controlled. All the rich plutocrats there still control them and they're all anti-Chavez/Maduro. Heard a couple of the papers went broke.. but it was blamed on the gov't. The spokesman said, well... we didn't shut it down at all, just nobody buy their papers so they went broke.

But the interests in Venezuela is not about democracy and peace. It's just one major, rich, piece in the American strategy to retake control of Latin America.

Maybe that's why they're going to build that wall. The refugees the coming wars will create... In the Middle East and Africa the breaking up of Libya open the flood gate into Europe. In the Americas, good luck with that wall stopping refugees.

 

[moXJO]

You're mixing Communism with Socialism.

I heard from quite a few experts' interview that Venezuela isn't really a Socialist state at all. A lot of its major enterprises are privately owned, not state run or control.

The media aren't controlled. All the rich plutocrats there still control them and they're all anti-Chavez/Maduro. Heard a couple of the papers went broke.. but it was blamed on the gov't. The spokesman said, well... we didn't shut it down at all, just nobody buy their papers so they went broke.

But the interests in Venezuela is not about democracy and peace. It's just one major, rich, piece in the American strategy to retake control of Latin America.

Maybe that's why they're going to build that wall. The refugees the coming wars will create... In the Middle East and Africa the breaking up of Libya open the flood gate into Europe. In the Americas, good luck with that wall stopping refugees.

Socialism is simply the front gate. Follow the path and you end up with zealots.

Check out every war- Russia, China on one side. We don't talk much about chinese and Russia in Vietnam.

China sent Venezuela broke when they stopped lending. Now the are calling in favors and land grabs.
Their hands ain't clean either. It's been this way for decades.

 

[luutzu]

Socialism is simply the front gate. Follow the path and you end up with zealots.

Check out every war- Russia, China on one side. We don't talk much about chinese and Russia in Vietnam.

China sent Venezuela broke when they stopped lending. Now the are calling in favors and land grabs.
Their hands ain't clean either. It's been this way for decades.

I don't think I ever defend any state. All states are violent and psychotic. Some are more so than others but they're all brutal.

China and Russia loaned to Venezuela. I think China has invested some $US50B past decade. Sure they do it for the oil and the minerals etc. Why else would they do it?

Russia also invest. I think one of the major holdings Russia got out of Venezuela was 50% of Citgo... that oil refinery and gas stations in the US.

Beside those guys, no other country could trade with Venezuela. If they do, they can't do business with the US. So they don't.

In today's global economy, it's going to be pretty tough to not be able to trade. That would send any country broke.

I think at the last election, some 60% of Venezuelan voted for Maduro. So he's more popular than Trump or any US presidents as far back as I can remember.

I mean, even that bastard Saddam whom not many Iraqis like and still a foreign power have a hard time taking it over. It's going to be heck going into Venezuela. To think that if you could just prop up some young opposition leader and hand over the country's power to him 'cause this and that... that's just asking for a war.

Imagine if, say, China decided Australia's two major parties aren't good. They wanted the Greens to take power 'cause it's good for the country... We Aussies will just take that?

----

As to China and the Soviets in VN... of course they'd send in their arms and advisors. That's how you stick it to your adversary and bankrupt them on the cheap. But VN is much more of a war for independence than a Communist for world domination.

But of course after the war where people have bled and died... those in power thought fark it, now that we're in charge, we know best and so screw everybody who doesn't like us and our kids at the top.

 

[moXJO]

I don't think I ever defend any state. All states are violent and psychotic. Some are more so than others but they're all brutal.

China and Russia loaned to Venezuela. I think China has invested some $US50B past decade. Sure they do it for the oil and the minerals etc. Why else would they do it?

Russia also invest. I think one of the major holdings Russia got out of Venezuela was 50% of Citgo... that oil refinery and gas stations in the US.

Beside those guys, no other country could trade with Venezuela. If they do, they can't do business with the US. So they don't.

In today's global economy, it's going to be pretty tough to not be able to trade. That would send any country broke.

I think at the last election, some 60% of Venezuelan voted for Maduro. So he's more popular than Trump or any US presidents as far back as I can remember.

I mean, even that bastard Saddam whom not many Iraqis like and still a foreign power have a hard time taking it over. It's going to be heck going into Venezuela. To think that if you could just prop up some young opposition leader and hand over the country's power to him 'cause this and that... that's just asking for a war.

Imagine if, say, China decided Australia's two major parties aren't good. They wanted the Greens to take power 'cause it's good for the country... We Aussies will just take that?

----

As to China and the Soviets in VN... of course they'd send in their arms and advisors. That's how you stick it to your adversary and bankrupt them on the cheap. But VN is much more of a war for independence than a Communist for world domination.

But of course after the war where people have bled and died... those in power thought fark it, now that we're in charge, we know best and so screw everybody who doesn't like us and our kids at the top.

Oil prices tanked. Apparently it was to shake out the US shale oil companies. Venezuela was overextended and China took advantage. I'm sure China just started lending again.

They have a national id card so how could you rig a vote. "Votes for butter" Baby!!!

 

[luutzu]

Oil prices tanked. Apparently it was to shake out the US shale oil companies. Venezuela was overextended and China took advantage. I'm sure China just started lending again.

They have a national id card so how could you rig a vote. "Votes for butter" Baby!!!

Oil crashed to weaken Russia, Venezuela. And yes, the shalers, other small oilers, and green alternatives too.

That's why Saudi Arabia went along with it. Well, they have to 'cause they're a colony so when the boss saids pump, you pump.

I think some 45% or 60% of the Russian economy is in energy. Some 97% for Venezuela. So when the oil price crashes... sanctions and embargoes meant the country is softened.

Though I think, and this is just me picking it out of thin air... I think the rush into Venezuela at a time when Maduro is not somewhat popular, when not enough people hate his guts yet... is because SA, OPEC and American oilers can't take the low prices anymore. That and they've taken the opportunity to scoop up all the weak tiny oilers and their reserves they wanted.

Time for the obscene profit to return. And if that mean two evil regimes need to be choked and smashed... that's just icing on the military industrial complex cake.

And we think Socialism is the problem.

 

[wayneL]

Sweden ? Finland ? Norway ?

They are mixed economies, they are not socialist.

 

[SirRumpole]

They are mixed economies, they are not socialist.

So is Canada but I bet you think it's Socialist.

 

[wayneL]

So is Canada but I bet you think it's Socialist.

Why the **** would you think I think that after what I have said in this thread? Are you for real?

Mixed economy bro.

 

[moXJO]

Mixed is fine imo. Its when zealots take control. And that can be classed as hard conservatives, eco warriors, commies etc.

One mans zealot is another mans hero though.

 

[SirRumpole]

Why the **** would you think I think that after what I have said in this thread? Are you for real?

You don't think Trudeau is Left Wing then ?

 

[DB008]

Trump just cut almost $1B to California towards its planned high speed rail project. His admin is going to sue to get the other $4.5B back.

As usual, your only telling half the story to fit your narrative luutzu.

I did some searching on the net. Gee, what a surprise....

Newsome announced that he’s cancelling the plan to build from LA to SF, but would be finishing the leg between Merced and Bakersfield since it’s near completion and they’ve already spent so much on it.
This leg is doomed to fail. There is no demand for it in that area, but they will continue to sink money into the program and subsidize the train for a while as a matter of pride. These same people, who spent $80B on a failed rail project, will turn around and say the $5B border wall is a waste of money...

Changing the train route from SF to LA to Merced to Bakersfield is a material breach of the original contract. The grant money awarded was for a route from SF to LA. The same amount would not have been awarded for a much shorter route that impacts a much smaller population. Additionally, the estimates in the original project plan were wildly inaccurate. The project is $44B over budget and 13 years behind schedule.
So you have a material breach in the scope of the original promise coupled with a misleadingly rosy original project estimate. Why should California be entitled to taxpayer money for this? Why should this wastefulness be supported?

 

[luutzu]

As usual, your only telling half the story to fit your narrative luutzu.

I did some searching on the net. Gee, what a surprise....

You know of any projects going according to plan and budget?

If a gov't doesn't want to meet their end of the bargain, sure they'll comb through and do a literal interpretation of the original agreement.

China, in literally 10 years, managed to go from having 0 high speed train to the most in the world right now. And by next year [or next few years], would have the more miles of high speed rail than the rest of the world combined.

Now, China is a relatively poor country. They're run by a bunch of commies. So what the hell.

Maybe it's easy for them since they've had their wall built thousands of years ago?

 

[luutzu]

Mixed is fine imo. Its when zealots take control. And that can be classed as hard conservatives, eco warriors, commies etc.

One mans zealot is another mans hero though.

Interesting interview with a journalist, and chief editor, who've actually been to Venezuela on many occasion. Either with the Carter election monitoring group, or just as a journalist.

 

[moXJO]

Interesting interview with a journalist, and chief editor, who've actually been to Venezuela on many occasion. Either with the Carter election monitoring group, or just as a journalist.

Thats not an impartial opinion.
TRNN
Paul Jay is a headcase pushing personal agendas. Just ask his staff...

Go to a couple of blogs and ask actual people living there.

 

[luutzu]

Thats not an impartial opinion.
TRNN
Paul Jay is a headcase pushing personal agendas. Just ask his staff...

Go to a couple of blogs and ask actual people living there.

Judging by Jay's guests and my own understanding from other sources, I'd take his agendas over other warmongering mainstream mouthpiece any day.

There's also a lot of blogs and "people who live there". Even if they're all true and they hate Maduro, who are anybody to be going into any country and overthrow their elected gov't anyway.

That'd be like Russia or China reading a few OZ blogs and thought to come on down and put Clive Palmer into power instead of the Labor party. Then we all think it's all good because the Chinese media all thought it's a good idea too.

 

[moXJO]

Judging by Jay's guests and my own understanding from other sources, I'd take his agendas over other warmongering mainstream mouthpiece any day.

You were citing Russian propaganda news before you found this mob.
You should take s good look at jay. He is just as agenda driven.

Um, they have journos and people on the ground that will give you a far better view then a leftist rag that isn't even in the country.

 

[luutzu]

You were citing Russian propaganda news before you found this mob.
You should take s good look at jay. He is just as agenda driven.

Um, they have journos and people on the ground that will give you a far better view then a leftist rag that isn't even in the country.

The Real News isn't Russian funded. It's probably Soros funded

I think we're all grown up enough to see that if the likes of Trump, Bolton, Abrams... or any country for that matter.. if they start to bringing in aids and speak of dictators, bad guys, democracy "or else!". They're bs-ing us.

The US have been doing a half dozen soft coup in Latin America past few years... yes, nobody have heard of it. Venezuela looks to be the start of a bigger, more Vietnam/Iraq-like quagmire. One that will draw in a fair few of the neighbours and cause countless millions dead, tens of millions displaced... and crapload of profit to the war profiteers.

It's either that or Trump is getting a bit soft on brown people from "sh!thole countries".

btw, saw a news clip showing an extract of former deputy of FBI's expose'... in it he wrote that at one of the earlier meetings with Trump, the dude goes on and on about Venezuela. Saying that it has lots of oil, and it's right next to us.

I kid you not.

But sure... dam Socialists tyrant have to go and the people be free.

 

[wayneL]

You don't think Trudeau is Left Wing then ?

Not only left wing, but an intersectional, postmodernist cultural vandal... and a cuck of the highest order.

But the Canadian economy, despite the leftist damage foisted upon it, remains a mixed economy, not unlike Oztraya.

It is not a socialist economy, it is a capitalism with social programs embedded, which rely on capitalism for survival.