Veganism

[StockyGuy]

I thought the Misc. bro science was a chicken a day must die to reach maximum muscle man status - ie white meat, not red My misc-steak, mea culpa Not to speak of the countless little cans of tuna (also white meat, but more rank smelling) many a newly single guy starts gobbling in an effort to appeal to the ladies again after letting himself go...

 

[Dark Knight 2.0]

This is a Vegan thread so I'll depart, but just take care Boys and Girls, supplement companies have the ethics of Trump in a whorehouse.

 

[Value Collector]

This is a Vegan thread so I'll depart, but just take care Boys and Girls, supplement companies have the ethics of Trump in a whorehouse.

Farm animals eat more supplements than humans.

 

[Dark Knight 2.0]

Farm animals eat more supplements than humans.

Yes, and the good parts are absorbed and used to build the Animal. The crap is long crapped out long before humans touch the animals.

Your knowledge in the Investment areas is obviously good VC, but in the General Chat threads you suffer a bit of overconfidence and a lack of knowledge, which really becomes a test of patience for some of us.

 

[Value Collector]

Your knowledge in the Investment areas is obviously good VC, but in the General Chat threads you suffer a bit of overconfidence and a lack of knowledge, which really becomes a test of patience for some of us.

Just click ignore then, simple.

 

[PZ.]

Want an ethical diet? It's not as simple as going vegan, says farmer Matthew Evans

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07...an-no-animals-die-says-matthew-evans/11266420

This >>> In fact, he found billions of animals are deliberately killed every year on Australian farms purely to protect fruit and vegetable crops for human consumption.

Mr Evans outlines the impact in his new book, On Eating Meat — which challenges both carnivores and vegans to consider their choices — and cites a number of examples, including:

• About 40,000 ducks are killed each year to protect rice production in Australia
• A billion mice are poisoned every year to protect wheat in Western Australia alone
• Apple growers can kill 120 possums a year to protect their orchards

"So a duck dying to protect a rice paddy for me is not much different for a cow dying to produce a steak," Mr Evans said.

"They are both animal deaths that happen in the name of us being able to eat.

"So there is nothing that we can do that doesn't have an impact on animals."

 

[Value Collector]

Want an ethical diet? It's not as simple as going vegan, says farmer Matthew Evans

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07...an-no-animals-die-says-matthew-evans/11266420

This >>> In fact, he found billions of animals are deliberately killed every year on Australian farms purely to protect fruit and vegetable crops for human consumption.

Mr Evans outlines the impact in his new book, On Eating Meat — which challenges both carnivores and vegans to consider their choices — and cites a number of examples, including:

• About 40,000 ducks are killed each year to protect rice production in Australia
• A billion mice are poisoned every year to protect wheat in Western Australia alone
• Apple growers can kill 120 possums a year to protect their orchards

"So a duck dying to protect a rice paddy for me is not much different for a cow dying to produce a steak," Mr Evans said.

"They are both animal deaths that happen in the name of us being able to eat.

"So there is nothing that we can do that doesn't have an impact on animals."

Vegans understand animals are killed to protect crops, that is actually why we are vegan.

It takes about 10 times the amount of crops to feed a meat eater, than it does a vegan.

Eg. To get a plate of bacon and eggs, you need to grow about 10 times as many crops as you do to produce a vegan meal, because the pig and chicken will consume about the equivalent of 10 bowls of corn flakes.

———

So if you wish to reduce the damage done by growing crops, then you have to reduce the meat you eat.

For example only 6% of soybeans are eaten by humans, the rest are feed to animals in factory farms.

 

[Value Collector]

• About 40,000 ducks are killed each year to protect rice production in Australia
• A billion mice are poisoned every year to protect wheat in Western Australia alone
• Apple growers can kill 120 possums a year to protect their orchards

"So a duck dying to protect a rice paddy for me is not much different for a cow dying to produce a "

You have to understand that that rice is also going into factory farms to feed chickens.

And the wheat is also being fed to cattle.

So by choosing to eat a plate of chicken you are not reducing the amount of ducks that need to be killed to protect rice crops you are increasing it.

You are saying rather than eat a bowl of rice, I will feed 5 bowls of rice to a chicken and then kill the chicken.

So you are responsible for 5 times the duck deaths as a vegan who ate the fried rice dish, plus you sent an extra chicken to the slaughter house, after you made it and it’s relatives that didn’t make it to slaughter live in a factory farm.

 

[StockyGuy]

Want an ethical diet? It's not as simple as going vegan, says farmer Matthew Evans

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07...an-no-animals-die-says-matthew-evans/11266420

This >>> In fact, he found billions of animals are deliberately killed every year on Australian farms purely to protect fruit and vegetable crops for human consumption.

Mr Evans outlines the impact in his new book, On Eating Meat — which challenges both carnivores and vegans to consider their choices — and cites a number of examples, including:

• About 40,000 ducks are killed each year to protect rice production in Australia
• A billion mice are poisoned every year to protect wheat in Western Australia alone
• Apple growers can kill 120 possums a year to protect their orchards

"So a duck dying to protect a rice paddy for me is not much different for a cow dying to produce a steak," Mr Evans said.

"They are both animal deaths that happen in the name of us being able to eat.

"So there is nothing that we can do that doesn't have an impact on animals."

The article was reasonably balanced, taking into account the verbiage at the end from Vegan Australia spokesman Andy Faulkner. Matthew Evans is a pig farmer. What do you expect him to say?

The whole thing's a bit of a straw man. Veganism is arguably a next stage; it's not an end to all pain humans cause to other life forms. I don't know who Evans is trying to appeal to with that line of rhetoric. I don't think vegans are typically ignorant of these agricultural realities.

In addition to everything VC said above, these impacts could be significantly mitigated if there was a will to do so. A vegan world with human ingenuity could do a lot to reduce these accidental and incidental deaths. If it drives food price up, then consumers being less picky about how fruit and veg LOOKS, meaning less waste for cosmetic reasons, could also drive price down.

Culling certainly may be needed at times but I would expect these people to pretty much have a tear in their eye after pulling the trigger and hitting the mark or what have you. There is an undeniable element of some just wanting to go out and kill stuff under a pretext.

There's kind of another aspect. Killing wild vermin and feral animals, usually quickly, is not the same as raising up an animal from infancy (and even the most callous farmers usually say they develop some affection for the livestock - many claim "we love our animals"), sometimes giving it a name, and then having it slaughtered at the precise moment its physical state will yield maximum value for its carcass. The first is defensive; the second is calculated and must at some level be soul-destroying to many farmers.

Anyway for the foreseeable future there will remain a massive demand for meat, so I definitely concur with Evans that it needs to be done in a more respectful way to the unfortunate animals involved.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Farm animals eat more supplements than humans.

Prescription of antibiotics to animals both domestic and farm, contributes as much to antibiotic resistance as human prescriptions.

I cannot say it is more, but it may be.

gg

 

[Value Collector]

The article was reasonably balanced, taking into account the verbiage at the end from Vegan Australia spokesman Andy Faulkner. Matthew Evans is a pig farmer. What do you expect him to say?

The whole thing's a bit of a straw man. Veganism is arguably a next stage; it's not an end to all pain humans cause to other life forms. I don't know who Evans is trying to appeal to with that line of rhetoric. I don't think vegans are typically ignorant of these agricultural realities.

In addition to everything VC said above, these impacts could be significantly mitigated if there was a will to do so. A vegan world with human ingenuity could do a lot to reduce these accidental and incidental deaths. If it drives food price up, then consumers being less picky about how fruit and veg LOOKS, meaning less waste for cosmetic reasons, could also drive price down.

Culling certainly may be needed at times but I would expect these people to pretty much have a tear in their eye after pulling the trigger and hitting the mark or what have you. There is an undeniable element of some just wanting to go out and kill stuff under a pretext.

There's kind of another aspect. Killing wild vermin and feral animals, usually quickly, is not the same as raising up an animal from infancy (and even the most callous farmers usually say they develop some affection for the livestock - many claim "we love our animals"), sometimes giving it a name, and then having it slaughtered at the precise moment its physical state will yield maximum value for its carcass. The first is defensive; the second is calculated and must at some level be soul-destroying to many farmers.

Anyway for the foreseeable future there will remain a massive demand for meat, so I definitely concur with Evans that it needs to be done in a more respectful way to the unfortunate animals involved.

As you eluded to more and more produce for human consumption is being grown in protected environments, where no animals can be harmed in any way.

Check out this ASX listed tomato farm.




Now compare that to Australian pig farms, and keep in mind that as well as the animal cruelty that’s standard in the Australia pig farms, they also require a lot of crops to be grown, and rodents killed etc around the pig farms themselves.

 

[Value Collector]

Prescription of antibiotics to animals both domestic and farm, contributes as much to antibiotic resistance as human prescriptions.

I cannot say it is more, but it may be.

gg

True, farm animals consume more antibiotics than humans, also diseases often pass from farm animals to humans living in the vicinity of factory farms, Swine flu for example has be found to spread from areas of intensive pig farms.

A modern pig farm can produce as much sewage as a small city, it is is often spread untreated polluting the air and water ways.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

True, farm animals consume more antibiotics than humans, also diseases often pass from farm animals to humans living in the vicinity of factory farms, Swine flu for example has be found to spread from areas of intensive pig farms.

A modern pig farm can produce as much sewage as a small city, it is is often spread untreated polluting the air and water ways.

Comrade you need to be careful with your wording.

From Wikipedia, I can quote articles if you like.

Swine influenza virus is common throughout pig populations worldwide. Transmission of the virus from pigs to humans is not common and does not always lead to human flu, often resulting only in the production of antibodies in the blood. If transmission does cause human flu, it is called zoonotic swine flu. People with regular exposure to pigs are at increased risk of swine flu infection.

Bruising to pig farmers who look after pigs is not unusual, but all bruising in humans is not due to pigs.

Let us keep it scientific.

gg

 

[StockyGuy]

GG, it's surprisingly complicated area. But the contribution of pigs to the big one in recent times - 2009 H1N1/09 swine flu pandemic (14,286 confirmed deaths worldwide), is well attested.

"According to the researchers, movement of live pigs between Eurasia and North America "seemed to have facilitated the mixing of diverse swine influenza viruses, leading to the multiple reassortment events associated with the genesis of the (new H1N1) strain." They also stated that this new pandemic "provides further evidence of the role of domestic pigs in the ecosystem of influenza A." ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic_H1N1/09_virus .)

It was a real devil's brew - "Analyses of the genetic sequences of the first isolates, promptly shared on the GISAID database according to Nature and WHO,[62][63] soon determined that the strain contains genes from five different flu viruses: North American swine influenza, North American avian influenza, human influenza and two swine influenza viruses typically found in Asia and Europe." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic .)

So yeah the famously deadly 2009 swine flu did not come, to the best of our knowledge, as a finished product from pig farms, but it would not have existed without them.

 

[SirRumpole]

Fake meat or fake news ?

The meat industry is getting worried about synthetic "meat" ?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08...orrying-farmers-over-definition-meat/11378282

 

[Miss Hale]

Fake meat or fake news ?

The meat industry is getting worried about synthetic "meat" ?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08...orrying-farmers-over-definition-meat/11378282

It's bizarre that everyone focuses on the taste and not nutrition. It's not meat, you won't get the valuable nutrients you get from meat by eating an impossible 'burger'. Why anyone would eat Frankenstein food even if it tastes like meat when you can eat real meat is beyond me. Anyway, the more idiots that eat this rubbish the more meat for me

 

[StockyGuy]

It's bizarre that everyone focuses on the taste and not nutrition. It's not meat, you won't get the valuable nutrients you get from meat by eating an impossible 'burger'. Why anyone would eat Frankenstein food even if it tastes like meat when you can eat real meat is beyond me. Anyway, the more idiots that eat this rubbish the more meat for me

Ah yes those "idiots" who care about other sentient beings... The bad temper you deliver your assumptions with says it all. Like you say, it's "beyond" you.

 

[sptrawler]

Getting everything you need from plant based foods is no where near as hard as you think.

It wont be long VC, before you will be driving the Tesla into the drive through, getting a Hungry Jacks Whopper.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/sma...ry-jack-s-goes-meat-free-20191001-p52wgt.html

 

[Miss Hale]

Ah yes those "idiots" who care about other sentient beings... The bad temper you deliver your assumptions with says it all. Like you say, it's "beyond" you.

What bad temper?

Can you explain why something made in a lab is better for you than a natural food?

 

[SirRumpole]

Understanding a vegan diet.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/...diet-healthy-b12-calcium-iodine-iron/11698020