I'd use hitler arguments all day if you let me.
Lets leave it at that.
Veganism
- Thread starter Value Collector
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Lets leave it at that.
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Vegan activists to step up protests.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05...-to-rage-against-the-farming-machine/11145650
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05...-to-rage-against-the-farming-machine/11145650
Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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Peaceful noncompliance has formed a big part of every social justice movement.
The protest itself doesn’t change opinions generally, but it is designed to force the topic into the public sphere and get people talking about it.
Garpal Gumnut
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As I have said before, militant veganism is a psychiatric condition approaching anti-social psychopathy.
I have no problems with someone having a philosophical position on chewing a bone or a carrot.
However when it comes to violence, destruction and trespass the authorities need to arrest and quickly assess whether the offenders are mad or bad.
They do their own cause no good and traumatise the innocent.
gg
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That's progress. Last time in this thread you did not qualify the militant form alone is worthy of your definitive classification.
Garpal Gumnut
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Value Collector
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Violence?
What is more violent that cutting some ones throat and eating their body.
Opening a farm gate and walking onto the property to draw awareness to the cruelty happening is not violence.
Watch the first 10 mins of this film and see if you think it’s the vegans that have the problems with violence.
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It amazes me how so many can watch such footage (I won't be watching that vid at the moment but I can guess - Earthlings was enough for me) and not be moved to at least consider change. I'm excluding the ones with a "psychiatric condition approaching anti-social psychopathy (sic)" who at some level positively enjoy the carnage. They are a minority. For most the power of tradition, social expectations and their own stubborn taste preferences are the reasons they will not change. For most it truly is an astonishing cognitive dissonance (yes, lol, deliberately using opposing side's term from this thread) that allows them to carry on eating animals after seeing unfiltered extended abattoir footage. In the anglophone world our language helps encourage the dissonance a bit - typically the Norman-French derived words being the foodstuff, the Anglo Saxon-derived terms being the living animal.
Value Collector
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The good part about the dominion video is that it’s all Australian footage.
Often meat eaters have his notion in their head that the Australian food system is “good to animals”, and the “bad stuff” only happens over seas.
That video blows that myth out of the water.
But yeah I recommend anyone that thinks avoiding meat is extreme watch the video, I can guarantee you won’t be ok with the footage, and will either change your mind or be forced to come up with ridiculous justifications for it.
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This is an interesting POV..
Why a hipster, vegan, green tech economy is not sustainable
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/o...tech-economy-sustainable-190605105120654.html
Why a hipster, vegan, green tech economy is not sustainable
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/o...tech-economy-sustainable-190605105120654.html
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Dianabol Mo? You're so 80s
Dianabol is for the more hardcore due to its side effects. Arnold is alleged to have been a massive user of Dbol. Most of the string beans in the vids here would be running Anavar or short ester Testosterone - no GH or Slin. Possibly Clen.
Although IFBB Pros run a heck of a more than Test.
But yes, Carnivore is the new Veganism.
Yeah the 80s early 90s was the only time I really looked at it. Big gains for big side affects. Luckily I never bothered using.Dianabol Mo? You're so 80s
Dianabol is for the more hardcore due to its side effects. Arnold is alleged to have been a massive user of Dbol. Most of the string beans in the vids here would be running Anavar or short ester Testosterone - no GH or Slin. Possibly Clen.
Although IFBB Pros run a heck of a more than Test.
But yes, Carnivore is the new Veganism.
Funny thing back in the 80s is that when you were a kid looking at these guys and thinking even half of that was attainable. I think I read brawn by Stuart mcrobert and it burst that bubble. "They're all on roids" "You'll be lucky to get 5-10kg of muscle a year".
Whole thing was a bs industry. But I did love working out.
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Yep, Joe Weider magazines using massive Roid users to sell Supplements that do nothing.
Using Steroids now is a lot safer though - not my cuppa Tea though, too great a risk.
Now we have every 60 year old on TRT, Crossfit destroying joints, and Housewives doing a short Cert course and calling themselves Personal Trainers whilst not having a clue about proper exercise programming.
The Fitness iindustry is dodgier than the Financial Planning industry.
Crossfit is insane on the joints and lack of technique. Don't they promote the whole "uncle rahbdo" thing. I knew of some of the top guys using various things. Man those guys are fit and strong though.
Those cert courses are worse in boxing. Some terrible trainers around. Agree about how dodgy it all is.
When you need to specialize I generally look to the US or Japan. Australia is just not on that level anymore. We use to be on top but then never progressed much out of the mid to early 90s.
We can get to a decent skill set but harder to make top tier.
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Anything where you are doing max Powerlifting and Weightlifting movements as fast as possible is very dangerous, both short term and long term. Control, stretch on the negative and good contraction at the top. The biggest profiteers of Crossfit were the Chiropractors and Physiotherapists. Then theres Paleo
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As a person whose lifted and trained since they were a kid, I can say that the Fitness industry is like any other industry, full of rorts. Rorts to get people to buy Supplements, the latest gym fad etc etc.
My concern with the promotion of Veganism for Athletes is how hard it is to get it all right. This leads to people looking to Supplements for convenience - perhaps an Industry tactic.
Two of the most widely accepted and studied Supplements are Whey protein and Creatine Monohydrate, yet speak to any experienced trainer/athlete and they only use these as a last resort. Athletes eat, not supplement as a general rule. (From my experience 150 grams of Whey protein ISN'T anywhere near as anabolic as 150 grams of red meat, let alone all these new protein supplements out there).
There's also two Oxford studies out there which showed Vegans have smaller Brains, thinner skin and hair etc. I assume as a result of not hitting their nutrient requirements due to the difficulty of getting Veganism right.
Save the animals YES. Some disgraceful things happen in food production. But perhaps animals foods should be banned rather than alternative diets promoted, particularly for Athletes.
My concern with the promotion of Veganism for Athletes is how hard it is to get it all right. This leads to people looking to Supplements for convenience - perhaps an Industry tactic.
Two of the most widely accepted and studied Supplements are Whey protein and Creatine Monohydrate, yet speak to any experienced trainer/athlete and they only use these as a last resort. Athletes eat, not supplement as a general rule. (From my experience 150 grams of Whey protein ISN'T anywhere near as anabolic as 150 grams of red meat, let alone all these new protein supplements out there).
There's also two Oxford studies out there which showed Vegans have smaller Brains, thinner skin and hair etc. I assume as a result of not hitting their nutrient requirements due to the difficulty of getting Veganism right.
Save the animals YES. Some disgraceful things happen in food production. But perhaps animals foods should be banned rather than alternative diets promoted, particularly for Athletes.
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Hmmm Dark Knight 2.0, I did try to find the Oxford studies you allude to, and I think I succeeded to an extent. In summary the health outcomes of vegans are overall better than the rest as one would expect - lowered obesity, lower cholesterol, lower risk for various cancers, greater longevity. These types of broad studies are generally not completely one sided, though. There are some health issues more likely encountered by vegans. But I think you can guess which side comes out on top in most areas via various health metrics
But don't get me wrong - I fully accept one can thrive on an even 100% animal based diet, like various less developed cultures have and to some extent still do.
The "thinner skin and hair" stuff sound like incomplete vegan diet, nutritionally speaking, as you say. Doesn't sound clear cut, though. Vegans tend to have clearer skin, less acne in particular.
It's your smaller brains claim that got me to respond. The brain shrinkage thing is specifically about B12 deficiency in the elderly - see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18779510 . Correct me if you were referring to a different Oxford study on brain size. It's not a study on plant based diets, AT ALL! Very important point! B12 causing bacteria is naturally in the soil - the clean modern manner our plant produce is provided removes that B12 source. Farm animals themselves receive B12 supplements. B12 is added to things like soy milk and many breakfast cereals. At the risk of giving ammunition to the other side, breakfast cereals (Kellogg's and Sanitarium) were promoted with a plant-based diet agenda, due to their connection to the Seventh Day Adventist Church ideals, which makes their supplementation efforts more understandable. Point is, vegan or omnivore, much of your B12 is derived from a supplement, direct or from an animal the farmer fed it to.
Comparing brain size and IQs across different groups and samples is kind of a "don't go there" thing, but typically vegans and vegetarians (while it's not exactly the point of the thread there's more evidence out there about vegetarians, many of whom are "almost there") have no need to be trepidatious about any such examinations.
But don't get me wrong - I fully accept one can thrive on an even 100% animal based diet, like various less developed cultures have and to some extent still do.
The "thinner skin and hair" stuff sound like incomplete vegan diet, nutritionally speaking, as you say. Doesn't sound clear cut, though. Vegans tend to have clearer skin, less acne in particular.
It's your smaller brains claim that got me to respond. The brain shrinkage thing is specifically about B12 deficiency in the elderly - see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18779510 . Correct me if you were referring to a different Oxford study on brain size. It's not a study on plant based diets, AT ALL! Very important point! B12 causing bacteria is naturally in the soil - the clean modern manner our plant produce is provided removes that B12 source. Farm animals themselves receive B12 supplements. B12 is added to things like soy milk and many breakfast cereals. At the risk of giving ammunition to the other side, breakfast cereals (Kellogg's and Sanitarium) were promoted with a plant-based diet agenda, due to their connection to the Seventh Day Adventist Church ideals, which makes their supplementation efforts more understandable. Point is, vegan or omnivore, much of your B12 is derived from a supplement, direct or from an animal the farmer fed it to.
Comparing brain size and IQs across different groups and samples is kind of a "don't go there" thing, but typically vegans and vegetarians (while it's not exactly the point of the thread there's more evidence out there about vegetarians, many of whom are "almost there") have no need to be trepidatious about any such examinations.
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I originally thought it was a 2012 Oxford study, but when I googled for it I could only find a 2009 study.
Veganism for Athletes is possible, but makes it a lot harder, making people more likely to fall into the trap of relying on Supplements.
Veganism for Athletes is possible, but makes it a lot harder, making people more likely to fall into the trap of relying on Supplements.
Value Collector
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Pretty much every meat eating person I know that goes to the gym takes supplements and protein shakes etc.
Not to mention that the animals they are eating are large consumers of supplements, eg dairy cows get fed calcium supplements among other things.
Getting everything you need from plant based foods is no where near as hard as you think.
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That's called bro science.
No need for the junk in protein supplements and believe me, there have been some huge scandals when it comes to Supplements
The number 1 supplement for any gym goer, should be Red Meat. Sorry.
No need for the junk in protein supplements and believe me, there have been some huge scandals when it comes to Supplements
The number 1 supplement for any gym goer, should be Red Meat. Sorry.
