Trump Derangement Syndrome

[Smurf1976]

Could it not be argued that OPEC is colluding and fixing prices? Is this not against the rules.

They most certainly are colluding but that is not against the rules of the countries involved.

It is against US rules yes, but what the US fails to grasp is they have no proper jurisdiction anywhere other than in the US.

Just like the laws of Australia, Canada or France don't apply in the US, so too US laws don't apply in Iran, Indonesia or Venezuela. This is the bit Americans seem to have difficulty grasping - their laws do not apply to other countries.

My point is not about the price of oil but about the arrogance of the US in thinking they have the right to enforce their laws on others. If they just want to lower the price of oil then sensible discussions with the likes of Iran, Saudi etc aiming for greater cooperation with importing countries rather than threatening them with sanctions or legal action would seem more likely to succeed.

Given that Iraq, an OPEC member, doesn't even have a properly functioning power grid I'm sure they be open to the idea of US investment and technical assistance as part of a deal. Likewise, if Trump were really skilled, he might even be able to get the Saudi's to cooperate with Qatar instead of digging a trench to physically separate the two countries. That alone has the potential to put about another million barrels per day of oil on the market.

 

[SirRumpole]

My point is not about the price of oil but about the arrogance of the US in thinking they have the right to enforce their laws on others.

I also find it ironic that the most nuclear weapon protected country in the world can preach to others about the evils of nuclear weapons and that other countries don't have the right to protect their own citizens in the same way.

 

[BlownAccount]

I also find it ironic that the most nuclear weapon protected country in the world can preach to others about the evils of nuclear weapons and that other countries don't have the right to protect their own citizens in the same way.

At least one could say they have shown great restraint with said weapons in the past. At the end of WW2 when Russia had the largest standing army the world has ever seen and was intent on keeping the ground they were on, the US showed restraint. They very well knew they were going to have to fight the Russians in the future and they didn't do what I have no doubt the Russians would have done.
I don't understand how people continually underestimate the contribution the US has made for world stability. One would be prudent to see reality for what it is. Thankfully the great US has the biggest stick by far in this world. If I were Trump I would hoist a tax on everyone else. A peace tax. 10% of the combined worlds GDP. After all why should they have to shoulder the costs of keeping the peace with their money and blood. IMO anyone who truely believes the US is an issue needs to read some history. Perhaps they could move to China.

 

[SirRumpole]

Thankfully the great US has the biggest stick by far in this world. If I were Trump I would hoist a tax on everyone else. A peace tax.

Speaking for Australia, we are one of the largest buyers of US defence equipment, so should we get a discount on that 10% ?

As I've said before, if the US pulls out of the international defence space then I think nuclear weapons will spread. Germany and Japan have the technology and Israel would certainly start producing more.

 

[Junior]

I love the insinuation of this thread. If you don't support Trump you must be deranged.

 

[wayneL]

I love the insinuation of this thread. If you don't support Trump you must be deranged.

Oh for God's sake Junior.

It isn't, the derangement is in the pathologically gross misrepresentation of the man.

 

[Smurf1976]

I don't understand how people continually underestimate the contribution the US has made for world stability.

The issue I see is that Trump is reversing much of what the US has done in the past.

Where previous US Presidents sought peace or at least a workable situation, Trump seems hell bent on starting conflict with everyone from the Middle East to Mexico.

It won't end well in my view. Sooner or later someone who matters is going to lose patience with the whole thing and implement some sort of response.

Trump wants a war and he's going to provoke pretty much everyone until he gets one.

 

[SirRumpole]

Trump wants a war and he's going to provoke pretty much everyone until he gets one.

I don't necessarily agree with that.

It might be a case of go in hard, allow others to beat you back a bit and make them relieved that it isn't as bad as it could have been.

That's probably how he worked his business deals and he thinks it a universally valid tactic.

 

[PZ.]

If the EU lowers industrial tariffs that's a win for Trump. I'll give him that one.

 

[notting]

You do realised that his two sons actually hunt rhinos, elephants etc. right?

Daddy just revoked the ban on importing such trophies back into the US so the two douche, among other douches, can feel like a real man having those hanging on their wall.

Apparently nothing shows off one's manhood like sitting far, very far, away shooting to kill.

This is Sparta!-for pansies.

Exactly! It's a sickening attempt to cheapen what his Beavis and Butthead do in their time off from raping sex slaves.

 

[moXJO]

I love the insinuation of this thread. If you don't support Trump you must be deranged.

It was similar in the dinosaur video. Its not that those people are stupid. Its as soon as the name "Trump" is uttered, people ignore the context and focus on hating trump.
Even after that video the discussion here went to bagging Trumps sons (deservedly) rather than why people get so blinded.

 

[moXJO]

Trump doesn’t want a war. If anything he has avoided them as best he can. He plays hardball but thats about it.

 

[overhang]

I actually thought Trump derangement syndrome was a label given to his staunch supporters.

It seems his supporters resentment towards the liberals shields Trump of any critique (in their eyes) providing his governance is at odds with the left even if it is moving in the fascism direction.

 

[Junior]

It was similar in the dinosaur video. Its not that those people are stupid. Its as soon as the name "Trump" is uttered, people ignore the context and focus on hating trump.

Most people don't like arrogance, big ego, or lies, and with Trump it's a relentless stream of those things.

 

[moXJO]

Most people don't like arrogance, big ego, or lies, and with Trump it's a relentless stream of those things.

True but is he just an open book about it?
Are all politicians basically trump but with a filter?

We have had wars, double crosses, human rights abuses, spying and all kinds of issues from previous smooth talking operators. Trump isn't cut from the entrenched political families and his roughness shows.

 

[notting]

If only we could get Mark Latham over the line as leader of One Nation.
It's just so entertaining.
And for once a politician is doing exactly what he was voted in to do, which in this case, was shake the baby....

 

[luutzu]

Could it not be argued that OPEC is colluding and fixing prices? Is this not against the rules. Considering fuel is important to the worlds economy is it not in every ones interests that those that control it do not fix prices? Seems reasonable to me. Look at the fines google has been hit with for anti competitive behaviour...

It's against certain country's rules, not OPEC members's national law. I think that was Smurf's point. That no country should dictate what other countries could or could not do.

And if the US or the EU do not like OPEC and its price fixing, that it's anti-competitive etc., then don't buy their oil.

But Trump is only acting with all these talks about oil being too high, OPEC should do this and that. Well, maybe he doesn't know because he's Trump... but the US got OPEC by the ballz.

They got a hold of it through Iraq and Saudi Arabia. And I'm sure I missed quite a few other members... judging by how many of them aren't sanctioned.

 

[Smurf1976]

It's against certain country's rules, not OPEC members's national law. I think that was Smurf's point. That no country should dictate what other countries could or could not do.

And if the US or the EU do not like OPEC and its price fixing, that it's anti-competitive etc., then don't buy their oil.

Yep that’s my point.

It goes further though and this is the issue I see with Trump and his irrational behaviour.

In 2016 he accused OPEC of selling oil too cheaply and putting US oil prodducers out of business.

OPEC has since raised the price of oil and now Trump’s threatening them that their price collusion is illegal.

Meanwhile Trump is also threatening sanctions on Iran, which exports about 3 million barrels of oil per day, the loss of which would do more to increase prices than anything OPEC has done in recent times.

If I were in charge of OPEC then I’d be scratching my head wondering what, exactly, Trump wants me to do?

Don’t fail to collude because that makes oil too cheap.

Don’t collude because he doesn’t like collusion.

So what do I do?

The same basic problem of their being no “correct” answer to Trump’s demands seems to affect rather a lot of things and that’s the trouble really.

Heads I win, tails you lose, either way you’re wrong seems to be the approach.

 

[luutzu]

Yep that’s my point.

It goes further though and this is the issue I see with Trump and his irrational behaviour.

In 2016 he accused OPEC of selling oil too cheaply and putting US oil prodducers out of business.

OPEC has since raised the price of oil and now Trump’s threatening them that their price collusion is illegal.

Meanwhile Trump is also threatening sanctions on Iran, which exports about 3 million barrels of oil per day, the loss of which would do more to increase prices than anything OPEC has done in recent times.

If I were in charge of OPEC then I’d be scratching my head wondering what, exactly, Trump wants me to do?

Don’t fail to collude because that makes oil too cheap.

Don’t collude because he doesn’t like collusion.

So what do I do?

The same basic problem of their being no “correct” answer to Trump’s demands seems to affect rather a lot of things and that’s the trouble really.

Heads I win, tails you lose, either way you’re wrong seems to be the approach.

Yea I wouldn't want to be in Riyald working for Trump either.

First he told me to raise it, now he said it's too high... Is he being a politician now and a US president then. What should I do... and are those our drones or the American drones circling round my compound?

Yea, sanctioning Iran and Venezuela, taking their oil off the market. Then complain about prices being high.

But then they could break a multi-lateral nuclear peace agreement with Iran then turn around saying Iran doesn't want peace. With a straight, sombre, face too. So speaking out both their azzes is perfectly normal.

Oh yea, Reuters reports how (some organisation may or may not be related to) Trump's re-election campaign is ramping up orders for posters and banners in China before the tariffs goes live.

Money is money I supposed.

The new slogan is "Keep America Great".

Nice tagline... but America couldn't have been that bad if a Trump could turn it around to greatness in under four years though.

 

[notting]

OOOPS Collusion
Hard to duck this.....
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/27/cohen-claims-trump-knew-of-meeting-with-russia-before-it-happened.html

The sick details