Trump 2.0

[StockyGuy]

I think it doesn't take away from the fact we are now celebrating people's deaths.
I get not liking, or not really having empathy. But actively cheering means complete dissociation from normal thinking.

This was a speech issue. I don't really care what he said, if it was wrong due to him inciting violence then arrest or whatever, but killing is insanity.

The cheering was sickening though. There's a difference between not liking someone's views and hating that person because of their views. I hate heaps of people views on here but I like them as humans. I also love stirring the sht when I get the chance so I bet they love me as well.

Okay but I definitely believe in the state-enforced death penalty in certain cases. I think the burden of proof though needs to be a little higher than beyond reasonable doubt. If you watch the vision of the fiend slashing Iryna Zarutska and her tiny body crumpling to the floor of the train and quickly bleeding out it's hard to doubt his case warrants a death penalty, no matter his mental issues. No doubt the lefty judiciary was partly responsible for releasing such a creature back onto the streets prior to the attack. Video footage (and it's on Wikipedia with only slight blurring and the sound taken away) proves it beyond reasonable doubt. A like 50-kilo sopping wet 23-year old girl sliced to death for no reason. His death would do nothing at all to replace what he's taken, but it's still necessary for the family and society itself to heal.

 

[JohnDe]

Charlie Kirk’s legacy: The art of how to disagree well

His Turning Point USA did overreach. What youth organisation doesn’t? But Kirk put his money where his mouth was. He rocked up to campuses not to protest against progressive professors but to engage their students (and some of them) in debate. I’ve been watching these events for years. They are a great antidote to a long day of racial literacy training.​

​

“Prove me wrong.” That was the admonition at Kirk’s tented dialogues. He would sit alone and field questions until they ran out. The excitement of these events was a sad indictment of the intellectual banality that mostly obtains in his absence.​

​

When tents appear in university quads they are usually filled with humourless Israelophobes. When Kirk showed up, everyone knew they would be part of a great theatre of democracy – if only for a few hours.​

Charlie Kirk, the slain youth whisperer of the American right, did not get everything right. He does not deserve (though he will surely get) the MAGA canonisation that has gathered steam since his murder. But what he did get right needs defending.

His Turning Point USA did overreach. What youth organisation doesn’t? Its Professor Watchlist website targets academics who “discriminate against conservative students, promote anti-American values and advance leftist propaganda in the classroom”. All this did was boost the solidarity of those on it – and led to demands to be included by those Kirk’s team had missed.

But Kirk put his money where his mouth was. He rocked up to campuses not to protest against progressive professors but to engage their students (and some of them) in debate. I’ve been watching these events for years. They are a great antidote to a long day of racial literacy training.

My wife and I sat shaking with anger and sadness on Thursday night as we replayed some highlights. Given the cultural issues raised at these revivalist-style events, from transgenderism to abortion, they were remarkably civil. Kirk eschewed leftism. But he was patient, tolerant and never more than gently mocking of the individual leftists who stood behind a microphone to take him on.

“Prove me wrong.” That was the admonition at Kirk’s tented dialogues. He would sit alone and field questions until they ran out. The excitement of these events was a sad indictment of the intellectual banality that mostly obtains in his absence.

When tents appear in university quads they are usually filled with humourless Israelophobes. When Kirk showed up, everyone knew they would be part of a great theatre of democracy – if only for a few hours.

He was as powerful an advocate of academic freedom as any of his myriad tenured detractors. He died doing what so many of us have shied away from: making our campuses arenas for ideological debate and civil discourse. He taught students across the world how to disagree well. How many of us can say the same?

Far easier to indict the woke campus in a newspaper column. Far harder to try to do something about it. Not by declaring war on the left but debating the issues with them. This is what Kirk did. His weapons were words delivered to crowds encouraged to interrogate him.

He did not hide behind speech codes. A man without a university degree understood academic freedom better than the academics who used it to try to cancel him.

The spectre of cancellation haunts too many campus interactions. Surveys reveal that students hide their conservative leanings to maintain social standing. Too few students are taught the skills of debate. Professors are obliged to prioritise the safety of their young charges from unsettling ideas. Kirk proved that students want an end to this cosseting.

Australian campuses have been mostly colonised by the cultural safetyism of their American counterparts. The embrace of left-wing identity politics by the college elite has stifled debate and filled too many lecture halls, here and there, with eggshells on which too many students feel they are walking.

It is an irony mostly missed by his opponents, but Kirk mobilised not just a new form of young conservatism; he also fostered the intellectual self-confidence of left-wing students. We have mostly abandoned this pedagogical (perhaps civilisational) responsibility.

Progressive 18-year-olds appear in O week, and we coddle them. “How super you go to climate rallies.” “Your preferred pronoun badge looks great!” “Be safe!” “You go girl!”

Their conservative peers, in contrast, are inadvertently taught some crucial survival skills. They must duck and weave, choose their battles wisely, know when to embrace and resist the orthodoxy.

Left-wing students don’t receive these lessons; they are patted on the head. Kirk exposed the lacuna at the heart of progressive education: it was not brainwashing students as much as boring them towards alternatives, young men especially.

“High school boys,” he said, “are the most conservative that they have been in the last 50 years.” In 2024, Democrat presidential candidate Kamala Harris lost young men by between two and 24 points in six of the seven swing states. Remarkable. “The youth vote,” declared Kirk, “won Trump the White House.” And it was Kirk that got it out.

In a sector that fetishises social justice activism, Kirk mobilised young people sceptical of it. A man who dropped out of college knew how young Americans were being sold out and mollycoddled by their left-wing professors and administrators.

Thousands routinely turned out to hear him – from left, right and neither. More than 3000 saw him shot at Utah Valley University on Wednesday.

When Australian students begin university, there are some brave but beleaguered Liberals staffing the stalls. Increasingly schooled in Sussan Ley’s conservatism of constant apology, these young people get little of the boosting Kirk offered their American cousins.

The Australian National University student union even banned the Institute of Public Affairs – Australia’s pre-eminent free market think tank – from its Market Day. Turning Point USA would have never allowed such ideological bullying. How tragic, then, that the ultimate bully, the assassin who pulled the trigger, should be the man who silenced Kirk. The liberal campus is not responsible for this outrage. At the time of writing, the killer is still on the run, assumed armed and progressive. The left has enfeebled young minds far more than it has made them violent. This assassin may be an exception.

If his identity and cause is in doubt, the reaction of some of his apologists is not. Kirk so frontally took on a woke campus orthodoxy that some of its beneficiaries just can’t help but mock his demise. George Abaraonye, the incoming president of the Oxford Union, who debated Kirk across a dispatch box four months ago, posted on Instagram: “Charlie Kirk got shot loool.” The most elite officer at the most elite of universities – and that was his response to his opponent’s cold-blooded murder?

If this is the new morality of the left-wing campus, why not seek to topple its dominion? What has Western civilisation got to lose? Donald Trump asked these questions. His 31-year-old aide, Kirk, gave him the means to answer them – and died putting them into effect.

Kirk was an imperfect but necessary culture warrior. He died on that battlefield. Most Americans are praying he will be the last to do so.

Timothy J. Lynch is professor of American politics at the University of Melbourne.

 

[moXJO]

I don’t the majority of people that were against Charlie Kirk are cheering, this psychologist explains exactly what I am feeling and what most on the left are feeling in this situation.

We just aren’t buying into the whole “don’t speak ill of the dead” or “this man should be honoured because he was a father” etc etc

We knew he was a shitty person before he died, we know he wouldn’t give a crap if it was just another school shooting, as the psychologist says it’s normal if sometimes your empathy tank runs dry for people that never give empathy to others.

He's a shtty person because of your perspective. Your thinking is ingrained.
To others he valued life and valued freedom and lived his life that way.

Im sorry but there's no such thing as your "empathy tank" running dry. People pretend to have empathy in these situations. As harsh as it is I didn't know the guy, I don't really care. Doesn't mean I think what happened was right.

But, yes there are high profile figures tying themselves in knots now after cheering for his death. That video is just major cope coming from shtty takes from the left after realising they look like d1cks. Its simply an optics take.

Your initial reaction has actually been cultured by social media. Thats the power of propaganda. You are now trying to rationalise it.

 

[moXJO]

Okay but I definitely believe in the state-enforced death penalty in certain cases. I think the burden of proof though needs to be a little higher than beyond reasonable doubt. If you watch the vision of the fiend slashing Iryna Zarutska and her tiny body crumpling to the floor of the train and quickly bleeding out it's hard to doubt his case warrants a death penalty, no matter his mental issues. No doubt the lefty judiciary was partly responsible for releasing such a creature back onto the streets prior to the attack. Video footage (and it's on Wikipedia with only slight blurring and the sound taken away) proves it beyond reasonable doubt. A like 50-kilo sopping wet 23-year old girl sliced to death for no reason. His death would do nothing at all to replace what he's taken, but it's still necessary for the family and society itself to heal.

Yeah Im not saint. Let them fry for all I care after due process.

 

[Value Collector]

Im sorry but there's no such thing as your "empathy tank" running dry. People pretend to have empathy in these situations. As harsh as it is I didn't know the guy, I don't really care. Doesn't mean I think what happened was right.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself, But I don't think it was right either, did you even watch that 30second video I posted of the psychologist?

I think even the most empathic person in the world would struggle to feel to much empathy if Putin was executed today, so yes we all have limits, and when it comes to some one like Charlie who has been doing his best to turn the public opinion against certain groups like Women and transgender people and gays, you can understand a lot of people don't feel empathy towards him.

As the Australian Army Engineer song goes "We don't give a damn, for any damn man, who don't give a damn about us"

 

[SirRumpole]

With three exceptions I now completely avoid discussing politics with friends, neighbours or anyone else.

People have just become far too "religious" about it all.

I think it's still easier to discuss politics in Australia than in the USA.

Although I agree with some of the views of the Conservatives here, their record in government leaves a lot to be desired.

But if Labor don't pull their fingers out especially around energy, housing and migration( prioritisng economic benefit over social reunions), then their time may be limited.

Thankfully we don't have the gun culture of the USA. I'm not optimistic about their fortunes in the short term anyway.

 

[IFocus]

What is Trump saying?



Asked on Fox News about what could be done to fix the problem of radicalisation and bring people together, Trump said: “I’ll tell you something that’s going to get me in trouble, but I couldn’t care less.

“The radicals on the right oftentimes are radical because they don’t want to see crime. They’re saying, ‘We don’t want these people coming in, we don’t want you burning our shopping centres, we don’t want you shooting our people in the middle of the street’.

“The radicals on the left are the problem. They’re vicious and they’re horrible and they’re politically savvy – although they want men in women’s sports, they want transgender for everyone, they want open borders.”

Trump’s remarks stood in contrast to a powerful speech made by Cox, the Utah governor, about the need for Americans to “find an off-ramp” to escalating hate and violence.

“I absolutely believe that this is a watershed in American history,” he said. “The question is what kind of watershed. That chapter remains to be written. Is this the end of a dark chapter in our history, or the beginning of a darker chapter in our history?”

The Cult keeps cheering and making excuses

 

[IFocus]

Wasn’t Kirk calling for the release of the Epstein files……

 

[moXJO]

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself, But I don't think it was right either, did you even watch that 30second video I posted of the psychologist?

I think even the most empathic person in the world would struggle to feel to much empathy if Putin was executed today, so yes we all have limits, and when it comes to some one like Charlie who has been doing his best to turn the public opinion against certain groups like Women and transgender people and gays, you can understand a lot of people don't feel empathy towards him.

As the Australian Army Engineer song goes "We don't give a damn, for any damn man, who don't give a damn about us"

That video was an edition of cope central. If you don’t have anything nice to say then you don't say anything. If you do then yes you are just being a pr1ck. Hey I've done it, but I can admit it. But im not going to defend it.

If putin were executed today, anyone cheering it on would be an idiot depending on the circumstances. Because whoever gets in after Putin is going to go harder or go to war because of it. There's also a host of countries that actually respect him. Or are we pretending there isn't other people in the world?

There's consequences when the other side doesn't agree with you and you unleash violence. It gets worse rather than better.

What on earth do people think thats going to happen if you goad people into solidifying their stance on the right by being utter morally corrupt dicks. Im seeing Kirk supporters turn up to people's workplaces to abuse them over their online Kirk death cheering videos. Thats what happens it starts to escalate.

Kirk was not against gays. He accepted them in the conservative group.



I think you have just read one side thats filled of bs. Thats the main problem I have with this conversation. You are tarring someone you don't really seem to know about.

Politically I think Obama is one of the biggest POS to walk the earth. But I sure as hell wouldn't cheer if he died. Empathy or not it would be a sad moment.

Kirk was a moderate compared to what's coming. There's guys that are extreme right that are bubbling to the surface.

 

[moXJO]

What is Trump saying?



Asked on Fox News about what could be done to fix the problem of radicalisation and bring people together, Trump said: “I’ll tell you something that’s going to get me in trouble, but I couldn’t care less.

“The radicals on the right oftentimes are radical because they don’t want to see crime. They’re saying, ‘We don’t want these people coming in, we don’t want you burning our shopping centres, we don’t want you shooting our people in the middle of the street’.

“The radicals on the left are the problem. They’re vicious and they’re horrible and they’re politically savvy – although they want men in women’s sports, they want transgender for everyone, they want open borders.”

Trump’s remarks stood in contrast to a powerful speech made by Cox, the Utah governor, about the need for Americans to “find an off-ramp” to escalating hate and violence.

“I absolutely believe that this is a watershed in American history,” he said. “The question is what kind of watershed. That chapter remains to be written. Is this the end of a dark chapter in our history, or the beginning of a darker chapter in our history?”

The Cult keeps cheering and making excuses

Trump wants to smash the left. He didn't release the proud boys for shts and giggles. He took his last term and the aftermath real personal.

 

[IFocus]

Trump wants to smash the left. He didn't release the proud boys for shts and giggles. He took his last term and the aftermath real personal.

Hmmm that’s great should work out well for everyone.

Shooters grandma says family thats everyone are hard right Republicans/ MAGA plus lots of photos online showing they appear to be gun nuts what could possibly go wrong.

But clearly leftest tard gay transgender peoples fault, clears it up for everyone

 

[finicky]

We knew he was a shitty person before he died, we know he wouldn’t give a crap if it was just another school shooting

The common self congratulations for moral superiority of someone on the left.
You take satisfaction in what happened whatever you pretend, it oozes all through your tedious smug posts.
I doubt you've spent much time questioning whether you are a "shitty person". How could you be - I mean you're so clever and virtuous right?

 

[basilio]

What will Tyler Robinson say at his trial ?
What will he be allowed to say ?
Will he ever go to trial for the killing of Charlie Kirk ?

At this stage I don't believe anyone has any idea of Tylers views beyond the obvious fact he thought Charlie Kirk should die and he was prepared to kill him.

So I wonder if Trump is willing to risk allowing him to have the freedom to speak of a dead man walking ? Why has an intelligent young man of 22 with little clear evidence of any mental illness or overt political passion carried out such an action ?

In the same context I wonder what has happened to the investigation of the people who attacked and killed a range of Democrat politicians.


At least 300 incidents of political violence have taken place since the Jan. 6 riots at the Capitol, according to Reuters.
Assassination of Minnesota Democrat leaves congressional members worried over safety
Here’s a timeline of notable acts of political violence in the United States involving politicians and political figures in recent years, dating back to 2011:

The shootings of Minnesota state lawmakers​

State Rep. Melissa Hortman and State Sen. John Hoffman, along with their spouses, were gunned down at their respective homes on June 14. The suspect, Vance Luther Boelter, was impersonating a police officer.
Police found five more firearms, ammunition, and a list of more than 45 other people, including Democratic Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz and Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), in Boelter’s abandoned vehicle. Officials believe they were also targets, acting U.S. Attorney Joseph H. Thompson said in a Monday press conference.
Boelter’s vehicle also contained “No Kings” flyers, prompting the cancellation of the anti-Trump events throughout the state scheduled for that day. Boelter was captured Sunday and now faces six federal charges and four state charges in the shooting.
While Boelter’s motives are not yet known, Walz said the shooting “appears to be a politically motivated assassination.”

Josh Shapiro arson attack​

Gov. Josh Shapiro (D-PA) and his family were forced to evacuate the governor’s mansion after an arsonist set fire to it on April 13. The attack took place during Passover, a major Jewish holiday.
While Shapiro and his family weren’t injured, the suspected arsonist, 38-year-old Cody Balmer, claimed he would have beaten the governor with a sledgehammer if he had found him. An affidavit from the Pennsylvania State Police detailed that Balmer allegedly committed the arson against Shapiro “based upon perceived injustices to the people of Palestine.”
Balmer has since been charged with attempted homicide, terrorism, and aggravated arson.
“This is not how we resolve our differences,” Shapiro wrote in a post on X after the incident. “This kind of violence has no place in our society — and it must be condemned by everyone, from both political parties.”

Political violence on the rise in the US: A timeline of key incidents

Charlie Kirk's assassination is the latest in a timeline of increased political violence in the United States.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[Value Collector]

That video was an edition of cope central. If you don’t have anything nice to say then you don't say anything. If you do then yes you are just being a pr1ck. Hey I've done it, but I can admit it. But im not going to defend it.

If putin were executed today, anyone cheering it on would be an idiot depending on the circumstances. Because whoever gets in after Putin is going to go harder or go to war because of it. There's also a host of countries that actually respect him. Or are we pretending there isn't other people in the world?

There's consequences when the other side doesn't agree with you and you unleash violence. It gets worse rather than better.

What on earth do people think thats going to happen if you goad people into solidifying their stance on the right by being utter morally corrupt dicks. Im seeing Kirk supporters turn up to people's workplaces to abuse them over their online Kirk death cheering videos. Thats what happens it starts to escalate.

Kirk was not against gays. He accepted them in the conservative group.



I think you have just read one side thats filled of bs. Thats the main problem I have with this conversation. You are tarring someone you don't really seem to know about.

Politically I think Obama is one of the biggest POS to walk the earth. But I sure as hell wouldn't cheer if he died. Empathy or not it would be a sad moment.

Kirk was a moderate compared to what's coming. There's guys that are extreme right that are bubbling to the surface.

So once some body dies we all have to be sad even if we didn’t like them? Thats weird.

Look you openly admitted you didn’t know much about him, maybe spend a bit of time catching up before you try and judge my opinions, because I have Ben seeing this guys stuff for over 5 years.

 

[moXJO]

So once some body dies we all have to be sad even if we didn’t like them? Thats weird.

Look you openly admitted you didn’t know much about him, maybe spend a bit of time catching up before you try and judge my opinions, because I have Ben seeing this guys stuff for over 5 years.

No you haven't. I've seen his stuff for years as well. But not through the filter of leftists edits. So you go find me the full video of the worst thing he said and make sure its not taken out of context. I don't know him well but I know enough and it seems more than you.

No one has to be anything including sad. In fact meme all you want. But there's roasting then there's celebrating like an absolute d1ck.

From what I have seen he has lived his life to his beliefs.

 

[moXJO]

Hmmm that’s great should work out well for everyone.

Shooters grandma says family thats everyone are hard right Republicans/ MAGA plus lots of photos online showing they appear to be gun nuts what could possibly go wrong.

But clearly leftest tard gay transgender peoples fault, clears it up for everyone

Still waiting on confirmation. We don't know who got in his ear.

 

[Smurf1976]

Trump wants to smash the left.

I think the political class in general has aligned itself far too strongly with a portion of the population and has neglected the rest, that in my view is what's behind much of the present situation in the US and elsewhere.

Previous presidents, of both persuasions, aligned themselves and their parties too far in the direction of people who define personal success in terms of climbing the corporate ladder, living in an upmarket apartment and having visited exotic destinations. People who define national success in terms of political speeches, treaties, the arts and the share market. People who see the solution to society's problems as mostly involving law, taxation and welfare.

They forgot the other half of the population who defines personal success as being married, a house in the suburbs with a backyard, having children, a car for each adult and taking holidays at mainstream mass tourism destinations. People who define national success in terms of infrastructure, industry, sports and scientific advancement. People who see the solution to society's problems as mostly involving applied science, physical work and productive enterprise.

That in my view is how the West got to the mess it's in. Successive governments, of both parties, paid far too little attention to the second group to the point of prompting a sense of abandonment and following that, anger. The end result being Trump.

That's not to say the second group is "right" and the first group is "wrong". Rather I'm saying the pendulum swung too far in one direction, there's been too much emphasis to one side for too long, leading to a backlash.

That's how we got here in my view. Depending on which group someone is more aligned with, there's a portion of society that thinks everything's going great and can't understand why anyone's unhappy, failing to grasp there's another group that sees society as already in ruins and in need of rebuilding.

The same sentiment's definitely brewing here in Australia, of that I'm very sure. If nothing's done then we're heading for real trouble.

 

[Smurf1976]

Kirk was not against gays. He accepted them in the conservative group.

I think he made a very important point there, that what someone does in the bedroom is not what defines them and is not what society ought be focusing on.

It's that quote attributed to Roosevelt ""Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, and small minds discuss people".

What more can be said? Focusing on race, gender, sexuality and so on as important attributes is small minded. Instead of that, we need to get back to focusing on ideas.

 

[SirRumpole]

Don’t mistake any thing I say though for me being happy he was killed, I don’t agree with gun violence, and I wish the USA would bring in more rational gun regulations.

Agree.

So once some body dies we all have to be sad even if we didn’t like them? Thats weird.

One can be sad about the increasing levels of violence without looking at the personalities who got killed. But it seems Kirk thought innocent deaths were a price worth paying for "freedom", so everyone who thinks that way will see him as a martyr for the cause.