Electric cars?

[divs4ever]

Australia should work with Japan and Germany to develop rare earth factories in Australia, to send to Germany and Japan ( and possibly the USA) to make the magnets.

To allow this to happen it should be subject to major tax breaks and assistance with capital. We should make it clear that these companies have to be majority Australian owned.

WES thinks they can do that themselves , or did when they put in an offer to buy LYC

so maybe the real question is who apart from LYC has commercial quantities of rare-earth mineral in Australia close to the beginning of extraction

ILU probably doesn't make the cut because they have only stock-piled one rare mineral , and one might think a viable project would need three or four highly desired minerals right from the start

what Australia probably needs is a reduction of regulations rather than 'tax-breaks

 

[Craton]

I would largely agree with the above p[osters except for one caveat.
Giving subsides, tax breaks etc should come with a quid pro quo, namely some form of equity in return.
Indeed, why not just have the government build it in its entirety.
Too often where companies both local and foreign owned, get tax breaks, direct subsides via loans and development grants, but the real prize ends up in another country.
Mick

That's always been the crux hasn't it?
Attracting the investment without draconian measures like nationalization of resources, companies and industries.
This is where China with it's government and state funded industrialization has the rest of the world over a barrel.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

That's always been the crux hasn't it?
Attracting the investment without draconian measures like nationalization of resources, companies and industries.
This is where China with it's government and state funded industrialization has the rest of the world over a barrel.

Maybe Australia needs to take a lesson from the Chinese book. Having Gina and Clive wasting billions from a one type act i.e. dig dig dig, perhaps we should have a Dept. of Australia. I'd be happy to lead it.

I forgot, it's called government. Well maybe that needs getting rid of.

gg

 

[sptrawler]

Australia should work with Japan and Germany to develop rare earth factories in Australia, to send to Germany and Japan ( and possibly the USA) to make the magnets.

To allow this to happen it should be subject to major tax breaks and assistance with capital. We should make it clear that these companies have to be majority Australian owned.

That's what we used to do, pre 1980's, that's how the NW of W.A and the Yilgarn area was developed.
The 1980's and globalisation put paid to that concept.
Now we are seeing the results of it.

 

[sptrawler]

That's always been the crux hasn't it?
Attracting the investment without draconian measures like nationalization of resources, companies and industries.
This is where China with it's government and state funded industrialization has the rest of the world over a barrel.

Yes and No, in the 1970's, the Govt made companies develop towns and infrastructure, when they wanted to extract the resource.

Then in the 1980's it all became about why value add here, when it is more efficient to value add in third world countries, now we are reaping the results from that mantra.

W.A would never have had gas in Perth, if it was discovered in 2000, we would only have an export facility at Karattha IMO.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

apologies if this has been discussed b4, or if it belongs in another thread.

Over the weekend, I've traipsed around the Inner West of Sydney, first time in a year or more . EV chargers have proliferated , wired onto power poles, along public street parking

Who pays?? From AFR

" A battle has erupted between energy network companies and power providers over who will control pole-mounted electric vehicle chargers that could become commonplace in Australian suburbs, with prices and availability for drivers at stake.

Electricity network companies are pressing in NSW and Victoria to change or waive rules to allow them to directly own pole-mounted chargers and count them as part of the network, speeding up their installation.


Sydney suburbs will have EV chargers. - Wolter Peeters

The move is being resisted in NSW by retailer AGL and charging companies EVX and Evie, which warn that a monopoly on charging infrastructure would result in price hikes for EV drivers and costs picked up by those who drive conventional vehicles.

According to the International Energy Agency’s Global EV Outlook 2024 Australians own 68 EVs per public charger, lagging the rollout in the rest of the world where the proportion is 11 EVs per charger....

 

[sptrawler]

@Dona Ferentes it is an interesting subject.

WA council rejects offer to have EV charging stations installed in town

The proponent says regional WA needs a reliable EV charging network to help facilitate the uptake of electric vehicles.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Smurf1976]

Australia should work with Japan and Germany to develop rare earth factories in Australia, to send to Germany and Japan ( and possibly the USA) to make the magnets.

To allow this to happen it should be subject to major tax breaks and assistance with capital. We should make it clear that these companies have to be majority Australian owned.

There's a pretty direct example from history of how to make that happen.

1949 and the big strategic materials risk to Australia wasn't rare earths but aluminium.

Long story short, a deal was done between the Australian Government and the Tasmanian state government under which the Australian Government was responsible, and committed to, building a plant incorporating all steps of the aluminium production process (other than mining) in Tasmania. The state's obligation was to supply all supporting infrastructure for its operation - land, power, bulk water supply and a road to the site.

Production commenced in 1955.

In 1960, as per the original intent, the plant was privatised with conditions attached requiring not just ongoing operation but expansion. To secure that was a binding contract requiring payment to the state for the supply of all utilities, even if not used, for the next 40 years.

That requirement to pay for utilities whether used or not was, of course, a pretty strong incentive to the company that it had better put them to use, noting the contract was not transferrable to any other location.

The second production line opened in 1962, third in 1967, fourth in 1976 and it's still operating today:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

No reason why the same model couldn't be applied to any other material in order to establish production.

 

[JohnDe]

Picked up my new Model Y this afternoon, I’m exceptionally impressed. I knew that there would be a difference between the 3 & the Y, and that four years would have included some refinement. However, they are two different vehicles, and I suppose that makes sense since one is a sporty sedan and the other a SUV.

I’ll report back when I have taken it for a long distance drive, but for now it’s an amazing experience to drive.

View attachment 200853

Took the new Model Y Juniper for a long-distance drive on the weekend, the roads were wet, it was raining, top temp of 12C. I was, and still am, flabbergasted.

Being a new model, and 4 years newer than my Model 3, I was expecting improvements but not to this extent. The engineers have done a tremendous job of improving every aspect of the vehicle, and the production line has shown the quality of Chinese manufacturing.

First things my wife and I noticed was how quiet and smooth the car is. At 110km/h with rain belting down the outside world is completely insulated from you, we listened to music, and it sounded like we were at home in front of our expensive audio system with no road noise interfering. We listened to an audio book at the same volume that we use when stationary, whereas the Model 3 we had to turn it up to be able to hear it properly. Oh, and that sound system, 16 speakers that I thought was overkill is an amazing thing to listen to. I believe that this is all achieved by using double-pane glass, softer trim materials, carpet in door pockets, and revised suspension. It is slightly better than my mates GLC300.

With 20-inch wheels with low profile tyres I was expecting a slightly firm ride, but it drives magnificently. It is smooth on both bitumen and concrete road surfaces, no harsh bangs or knocks over potholes and bumps on the road, I've read some reviewers comments about it being too soft for them, but not for me coming from the sporty 3 the Y has a good balance, and we had no issues on the highway and through the mountains.

The climate control is improved over the M3, seat warmers are better, fan quieter. And it has a feature called Bioweapon Defense Mode, which is an air filtration system that is used in vehicles like the ones used by the US president and our own PM. Basically, it presurises the cabin and filters 99.8% of all particles entering, Will I ever use it? Yes. I did yesterday afternoon when a late model BMW X was in front of us and smoke was pouring from both its tail pipes. And it worked, we did not smell any smoke while we were stuck behind the Beemer for 10 minutes.

Completed 400kms on one charge, I was expecting more but I'm giving it a few weeks to settle in before making a judgement, especially since the weather was so bad. I did a top up charge at a Chargefox station and wondered why they can't make these chargers as seamless as a Tesla Supercharger. I guess that it I was a regular user it wouldn't be too much of a bother, but as someone that uses them on an irregular basis there are too many steps and the identification is poor; had to choose from A to E and there was no indication on the units, the app did not show it at first, but eventually after a bit of mucking around I worked it out. 5 minutes to get it working, 10-minute top up charge while we watched Netflix on the Tesla screen.

Yesterday we loaded up our golf clubs and buggy's, the electric rear seats are a blessing, press the button to lower the seats and load our gear, press another button to rais the seat when vehicle is unloaded. Saves my back, not like the Model 3 which I had to always bend over to raise the seat backs when finished.

There is a lot more that the Y Juniper impresses me and my wife with, but I know that most readers do not want to hear about it so I will stop here. Maybe as we use it more, drive it further and learn more about it I might post something that might be of interest. But for now, I must say that this is the best vehicle that I have been in or driven, ever. And as part of my life and job I drive a lot of different vehicles.

 

[Knobby22]

Took the new Model Y Juniper for a long-distance drive on the weekend, the roads were wet, it was raining, top temp of 12C. I was, and still am, flabbergasted.

Being a new model, and 4 years newer than my Model 3, I was expecting improvements but not to this extent. The engineers have done a tremendous job of improving every aspect of the vehicle, and the production line has shown the quality of Chinese manufacturing.

First things my wife and I noticed was how quiet and smooth the car is. At 110km/h with rain belting down the outside world is completely insulated from you, we listened to music, and it sounded like we were at home in front of our expensive audio system with no road noise interfering. We listened to an audio book at the same volume that we use when stationary, whereas the Model 3 we had to turn it up to be able to hear it properly. Oh, and that sound system, 16 speakers that I thought was overkill is an amazing thing to listen to. I believe that this is all achieved by using double-pane glass, softer trim materials, carpet in door pockets, and revised suspension. It is slightly better than my mates GLC300.

With 20-inch wheels with low profile tyres I was expecting a slightly firm ride, but it drives magnificently. It is smooth on both bitumen and concrete road surfaces, no harsh bangs or knocks over potholes and bumps on the road, I've read some reviewers comments about it being too soft for them, but not for me coming from the sporty 3 the Y has a good balance, and we had no issues on the highway and through the mountains.

The climate control is improved over the M3, seat warmers are better, fan quieter. And it has a feature called Bioweapon Defense Mode, which is an air filtration system that is used in vehicles like the ones used by the US president and our own PM. Basically, it presurises the cabin and filters 99.8% of all particles entering, Will I ever use it? Yes. I did yesterday afternoon when a late model BMW X was in front of us and smoke was pouring from both its tail pipes. And it worked, we did not smell any smoke while we were stuck behind the Beemer for 10 minutes.

Completed 400kms on one charge, I was expecting more but I'm giving it a few weeks to settle in before making a judgement, especially since the weather was so bad. I did a top up charge at a Chargefox station and wondered why they can't make these chargers as seamless as a Tesla Supercharger. I guess that it I was a regular user it wouldn't be too much of a bother, but as someone that uses them on an irregular basis there are too many steps and the identification is poor; had to choose from A to E and there was no indication on the units, the app did not show it at first, but eventually after a bit of mucking around I worked it out. 5 minutes to get it working, 10-minute top up charge while we watched Netflix on the Tesla screen.

Yesterday we loaded up our golf clubs and buggy's, the electric rear seats are a blessing, press the button to lower the seats and load our gear, press another button to rais the seat when vehicle is unloaded. Saves my back, not like the Model 3 which I had to always bend over to raise the seat backs when finished.

There is a lot more that the Y Juniper impresses me and my wife with, but I know that most readers do not want to hear about it so I will stop here. Maybe as we use it more, drive it further and learn more about it I might post something that might be of interest. But for now, I must say that this is the best vehicle that I have been in or driven, ever. And as part of my life and job I drive a lot of different vehicles.

A HEPA filter would help get me across the line. Very good for your health. Too many lung cancer inducing diesels around.

I saw that Australia was one of two countries which had rising sales last month for Tesla. I would guess this model has been the reason.

 

[JohnDe]

Cadillac's EVs coming to Australia and New Zealand -

Cadillac Expands EV Lineup in Australia and New Zealand with Optiq and Vistiq​

General Motors (GM) is making a bold move in the Australian and New Zealand automotive markets, announcing the introduction of two new Cadillac electric vehicles (EVs) in 2026. The two models—the Optiq and Vistiq—will expand Cadillac’s growing EV portfolio, joining the Lyriq and performance-focused Lyriq V in showrooms across both countries.​

A Strong Commitment to the Electric Future​

Cadillac has been making significant strides toward an all-electric future, and the expansion into the Australian and New Zealand markets is a key part of that strategy. The brand is renowned for its luxury, innovation, and cutting-edge technology, and the addition of these two new models underscores GM’s commitment to offering more electric choices to premium SUV buyers.

Cadillac is not just importing these models—they are being built in right-hand drive (RHD) directly from the factory in the United States. Unlike other American brands that have relied on third-party conversions, Cadillac is engineering these vehicles for RHD from the outset, ensuring a seamless and authentic driving experience for Australian and New Zealand customers.

Meet the New Cadillac EVs: Optiq and Vistiq ​

Optiq: The New Entry-Level Cadillac EV​

The Optiq is set to become Cadillac’s most accessible EV SUV, offering a compact and stylish option for buyers who want to experience luxury electric mobility at a more attainable price point. It will sit below the Lyriq in terms of size but will still deliver Cadillac’s signature high-quality craftsmanship, advanced technology, and premium materials.

While detailed specifications have yet to be released, the Optiq is expected to feature:

• A bold and aerodynamic design, staying true to Cadillac’s modern EV styling.
• A high-tech interior with premium materials and Cadillac’s latest infotainment system.
• Competitive range and fast-charging capabilities, making it a strong contender in the luxury EV space.

As the most affordable Cadillac EV, the Optiq is poised to attract a wider audience, from urban professionals to environmentally conscious families looking for a stylish and practical electric SUV.

Vistiq: A Spacious Three-Row Luxury SUV​

For those who need more space and power, Cadillac has unveiled the Vistiq, a large three-row electric SUV designed to compete with other high-end luxury SUVs. The Vistiq will sit above the Lyriq in the lineup, offering a roomy, high-end driving experience for families and premium SUV buyers.

Key expected features include:

• A spacious three-row cabin with luxury appointments.
• Cutting-edge technology, including Cadillac’s latest infotainment, driver-assistance, and connectivity features.
• A powerful electric drivetrain, likely delivering strong performance and a long driving range.
• Smooth, quiet, and comfortable ride quality, a hallmark of Cadillac’s large SUVs.

With the growing demand for electric three-row SUVs, the Vistiq could be a game-changer for Cadillac in Australia and New Zealand, catering to families and executives looking for a premium, sustainable alternative to traditional petrol-powered luxury SUVs.

Right-Hand Drive from the Factory – A Game Changer for Cadillac​

One of the most exciting aspects of this announcement is that both the Optiq and Vistiq will be manufactured in right-hand drive from the start.

Historically, American car brands have struggled to penetrate right-hand-drive markets like Australia and New Zealand due to the added costs and complexities of converting left-hand-drive vehicles after production. However, GM is taking a different approach with Cadillac’s EV lineup.

By engineering these vehicles for right-hand drive from their inception, GM ensures:

1. A better driving experience – No post-production modifications mean the steering, controls, and ergonomics are all designed specifically for RHD markets.
2. Higher quality assurance – Factory-built RHD vehicles meet Cadillac’s stringent manufacturing standards, avoiding potential issues from third-party conversions.
3. A more competitive position in the market – By offering fully engineered RHD models, Cadillac can directly compete with established European and Japanese luxury brands.
   

What This Means for the Australian and New Zealand EV Market​

The arrival of the Optiq and Vistiq in Australia and New Zealand comes at a time when demand for electric vehicles is growing rapidly. Consumers are increasingly looking for premium electric options, and Cadillac’s strong brand reputation, advanced technology, and luxury features make it a compelling choice.

With the Lyriq already confirmed for the region, the addition of the Optiq and Vistiq gives Cadillac a well-rounded EV lineup, covering everything from compact luxury SUVs to spacious three-row family vehicles.

Competition in the EV SUV Market ​

The premium EV segment in Australia and New Zealand is heating up, with competitors such as:

• Tesla Model Y & Model X – Known for their tech-focused interiors and long-range capabilities.
• BMW iX – A luxury SUV with advanced technology and European refinement.
• Mercedes-Benz EQE & EQS SUVs – Offering high-end luxury and cutting-edge EV powertrains.
• Audi Q8 e-tron – A stylish alternative with German engineering.

With Cadillac’s strong brand identity, focus on luxury and technology, and factory-built RHD models, the Optiq and Vistiq have the potential to disrupt this space and attract new buyers looking for American luxury EVs.

What’s Next for Cadillac in Australia and New Zealand?​

While the Optiq and Vistiq are set to arrive in 2026, there is speculation that Cadillac may continue expanding its EV lineup in the region. With GM investing heavily in electric technology, we could see more models, including electric sedans and performance-focused EVs, making their way to Australia and New Zealand.

Pricing, detailed specifications, and official launch dates will be announced closer to 2026, but for now, it’s clear that Cadillac is serious about the Australian and New Zealand EV markets.

Final Thoughts​

Cadillac’s announcement of the Optiq and Vistiq for 2026 is big news for Australian and New Zealand car buyers. With right-hand drive from the factory, a focus on luxury and technology, and a lineup that now includes four electric SUVs, Cadillac is positioning itself as a serious competitor in the premium EV market.

For customers looking for a stylish, high-quality, and advanced electric SUV, the Optiq and Vistiq are shaping up to be exciting new options. As the shift to EVs accelerates, Cadillac’s expansion into Australia and New Zealand is a bold step toward the future of luxury electric mobility.

Cadillac Expands EV Lineup in Australia and New Zealand with Optiq and Vistiq

The IAME aims to assist members by providing industry relevant Automotive Training, Branch Information sessions, Seminars, as well as Auditing, Assessing and Consulting Services. Members also benefit from technology updates provided via "The Automotive Engineer" journal distributed seasonally.

www.iame.com.au

 

[JohnDe]

A HEPA filter would help get me across the line. Very good for your health. Too many lung cancer inducing diesels around.

I saw that Australia was one of two countries which had rising sales last month for Tesla. I would guess this model has been the reason.

Yes, diesel vehicles worry me. Most people do not realise how toxic diesel fumes are, and that the reason most manufacturers have to install a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) to their vehicle is because of the toxic exhaust particles. als, many don't realise that not all diesel vehicles use a DPF, and those that do are often not working correctly or have been disabled. See VW dieselgate.

I swear by Cabin filters, but when sitting behind a dirty diesel vehicle I can always smell the fumes, and I always wondered why when the vehicle i was in has a Cabin filter. I now know why - a normal Cabin Filter cannot remove all the particles.

 

[Value Collector]

It's 6 Years and 66,000 kms since I purchased my Tesla Model 3, and I just had new tyres put on and its first big service, so I thought a break down of cost so far might be interesting to some people. So here it goes. I will list the totals, but also make a few break downs of cost per kilometre, including different factors.

Original purchase price - $70,480
Total KW/H of Electricity used - 8,877 KW/H
Total cost of electricity - $1,731 (60% Charging using solar $0.05, 25% Home charging $0.30 and 15% Super charging $0.60)
Total Maintenance - $2,742.40 (Tires, 12 volt Battery, Break fluid, Wiper Blades and Cabin filter)


Cost per Kilometre break downs-

Electricity cost only - $0.026 / Kilometre ( $2.60 / 100 Km )
Electricity + Maintenance - $0.067 / Kilometre ($6.77 / 100 Km)

So, the cost of fuel and maintenance over 6 years does seem to show me that Ev's have very small ongoing running costs over time, and this could certainly have been cheaper if I didn't buy the tires through Tesla and instead went to Costco or a discount retailer, and you don't do what I did and not rotate the tires, this would have added 15,000 kilometres or so to their life.

The true cost would also include depreciation of the vehicle over that time, I am guess its probably lost about half its value over the last 6 years, that would add 50 cents / kilometre, this number becomes smaller and less relevant as a vehicle ages and gets more KM's on the odometer though.

@sptrawler @basilio @SirRumpole @Knobby22 @qldfrog @Smurf1976

 

[Value Collector]

Giving subsides, tax breaks etc should come with a quid pro quo, namely some form of equity in return.

It does, the government gets 30% of the profits companies generate and 30% or so of the wages workers earn. They don't need a physical stock certificate for that. So when they subsidise something to kick start an industry, asset or business they benefit in multiple ways.

1. they earn back the subsidy most of the time via taxation and royalties
2. they shorten the dole lines and pension lines.

Taking a government expense like the dole, and turning it into an income stream from a worker and company you can now tax is a good use of government investment.

 

[mullokintyre]

It does, the government gets 30% of the profits companies generate and 30% or so of the wages workers earn. They don't need a physical stock certificate for that. So when they subsidise something to kick start an industry, asset or business they benefit in multiple ways.

1. they earn back the subsidy most of the time via taxation and royalties
2. they shorten the dole lines and pension lines.

Taking a government expense like the dole, and turning it into an income stream from a worker and company you can now tax is a good use of government investment.

Assuming of course that the company actually gets going and produces something, and then a profit.
Even more relevant if the company is domiciled externally and benefits through transfer pricing intercompamy loans and other mechanisms to make sure there is no tax to be paid on Oz.
Assuming of course that there are royalties on whatever the company produces.
Payrioll tax is a state scam, not a federal one.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

1. Assuming of course that the company actually gets going and produces something, and then a profit.

That’s a risk even if they took direct equity, all investments have risk, but even if the company itself never makes a profit the workers still pay income tax.

Even more relevant if the company is domiciled externally and benefits through transfer pricing intercompamy loans and other mechanisms to make sure there is no tax to be paid on Oz.
Assuming of course that there are royalties on whatever the company produces.
Payrioll tax is a state scam, not a federal one.
Mick

Again there is still workers income tax, shorter dole lines, GST payments etc etc. but it’s up to the government to decide what they invest in, and they will be looking at a wide range of benefits.

 

[countrylad]

Again there is still workers income tax, shorter dole lines, GST payments etc etc. but it’s up to the government to decide what they invest in, and they will be looking at a wide range of benefits.

I am sure some politicians purely make the decision to ensure their board position after they get elected out rather than the betterment of the Australian joe public.

 

[JohnDe]

BYD has publicly accused rival automakers of sabotage amid the intensifying EV price war, alleging underhanded tactics meant to damage its reputation and sales. The bold accusation reflects rising tensions in the hyper-competitive electric vehicle market, especially in China. Industry watchers now await responses from the accused competitors.

 

[SirRumpole]

BYD has publicly accused rival automakers of sabotage amid the intensifying EV price war, alleging underhanded tactics meant to damage its reputation and sales. The bold accusation reflects rising tensions in the hyper-competitive electric vehicle market, especially in China. Industry watchers now await responses from the accused competitors.

Very interesting...

 

[Value Collector]

I am sure some politicians purely make the decision to ensure their board position after they get elected out rather than the betterment of the Australian joe public.

Do you have some examples ?