Sdajii
Sdaji
- Joined
- 13 October 2009
- Posts
- 2,311
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- 2,753
Cop out !
Do you really think that a 32% reduction in GDP was caused by BLM ?
What planet are you on ?
F---k me, everything can be calculated, what is your life worth, I know but you might not accept, should I have to pay for you to live forever, no.
Again, you make stupid comments. Ie anyone retired has a value of zero, stupid, my beloved parents are retired, their lives are worth something, I talk to them everyday because I value them, but does that mean society should pay for them to live forever, so I never have to grieve over their deaths, NO, stop being so stupid.
You are the one who said lives have a money value , so you give us a formula for calculating it, don't expect me to do you homework. Earning capacity was one method I pulled out of the air, there are many others, I never said it was valid , and you never gave an alternative.
My question to you is that as you think lives have a money value, what is your calculation method ? What dollar value do you put on your own life ? Petty insults will not be accepted.
I think this is getting a bit off topic, but since you're dwelling on the question and seem to need it addressed, let's look at it.
Obviously we can't easily calculate a figure like $200k or $5million or whatever, but if we're going to be honest and realistic, human lives do have a dollar value. That's not to say I like the reality or advocate it or want it to be the reality, it just is.
Maybe it would help you to see the reality if we look at extreme examples to demonstrate the principle. At one extreme, we could ask if you would pay a few dollars or few hours to save a 20 year old's life if they were needing some help. Sure, you probably would. Most of us would. On the other hand, would you spend all the money you had and/or all of your time for the rest of your life to save that person? Honestly, you probably wouldn't. Very few people would. We don't have an exactly figure on the price/value, but we can see that one does exist, blurry as it is.
Now, would you sell your home to pay for cancer treatment or surgery or a rescue effort to save your own 20 year old child? Very likely, many people would, probably most people. Would you do the same for your 95 year old grandfather? Let's not kid ourselves, you wouldn't, and almost no one would.
Again, we don't have an exact price, but one clearly does exist.
What about public funds? If we could save 2 people for a cost of $1,000 per person, would we do it? Sure, the public would demand it, the government wouldn't hesitate, no one would question the decision. What if it was $1,000,000 per person? There would be some debate, but it would depend on various things (circumstances of them needing the help, their age, etc). It would probably happen with a small amount of controversy. What about $10,000,000 per person? It's difficult to say, it would hang in the balance. What about a billion dollars per person? Nope, sorry, we don't know exactly what the figure is, but we sure as heck will not spend $2 billion saving two random people. Maybe, maybe, maybe if it was the prime minister or something, but for you or me, nope, it would be sorry, bye bye, he had a good life (or, we assume so *awkward avoidance of eye contact*).
If it was a foreigner we'd spend less than an Australian. If it was a pretty woman we'd spend less than if it was a fat ugly one (again, I'm not advocating it or saying it's right, it's just the reality which I know does exist). If it was a criminal we'd spend less than if it was a well-known philanthropist. 20 years ago if they were white we'd have spent more than if they were black. Today we'd spend more if they were black than if they were white.
There are different metrics you can use to calculate the value (economic value, sentimental value, community evaluation, personal evaluation, or simply the own person's ability to pay for themselves eg I have $xxx in money and assets at my disposal so that's what I'm worth, which is actually a common way to refer to a person's value). We could also use the metric of 'we have XXX resources to allocate, we will try to utilise it to give maximum benefit to as many people as possible, or alternatively, use it to benefit people as evenly as possible, and thus, we can say that we have $X to allocate to 'saving lives' and obviously if we spent half of that on one person which means we don't have those funds to save many others and they will now die, a person's life is worth less than half of $X. This last metric is something along the lines of what I'd personally use.
To say that we can not put a dollar value on human life is completely naive, and following this attitude we will immediately squander all of $X on the first case or cases which need it, leaving nothing left for the vast, vast majority of people who could have been helped so much more if a more realistic approach had been used.
But, you should not be using this as a distraction to your utterly abhorrent and inhuman comments earlier.
It's very concerning to see people have the attitude of 'if someone has never had depression before they'll be fine'.
There’s a difference between someone who has never had an acknowledged issue versus someone who has no issues as such.
If the cracks are already there then the current situation may well force them open.
What I don’t see any evidence for is the idea that it’ll cause issues where there are no existing cracks.
Much the same with relationships. Put the pressure on and you find out who never really was a true friend anyway but the real ones stick around. It exposes rather brutally what was always there.
If you have a mirror with a small crack, you will perhaps be able to break it or easily crack it further with minimal force. The greater the existing cracks, the easier it will be to break the glass. But if you start throwing rocks and hammers around, you can break any mirror.
To say that we can not put a dollar value on human life is completely naive, and following this attitude we will immediately squander all of $X on the first case or cases which need it, leaving nothing left for the vast, vast majority of people who could have been helped so much more if a more realistic approach had been used.
There’s a difference between someone who has never had an acknowledged issue versus someone who has no issues as such.
If the cracks are already there then the current situation may well force them open indeed it’s a given that will occur to some extent.
What I don’t see any evidence for is the idea that it’ll cause issues where there are no existing cracks.
Much the same with relationships. Put the pressure on and you find out who never really was a true friend anyway but the real ones stick around. It exposes rather brutally what was always there.
F---k me, everything can be calculated, what is your life worth, I know but you might not accept, should I have to pay for you to live forever, no.
Again, you make stupid comments. Ie anyone retired has a value of zero, stupid, my beloved parents are retired, their lives are worth something, I talk to them everyday because I value them, but does that mean society should pay for them to live forever, so I never have to grieve over their deaths, NO, stop being so stupid.
I don't think Rumpoles statements are "stupid". But more importantly I don 't believe we are getting anywhere with unnecessary abuse. Just doesn't make this a pleasant place to be in.
Perhaps the discussion on the value of human life could be taken to a thread on that topic ? I can see it getting uglier by the minute.
I don't think Rumpoles statements are "stupid". But more importantly I don 't believe we are getting anywhere with unnecessary abuse. Just doesn't make this a pleasant place to be in.
Perhaps the discussion on the value of human life could be taken to a thread on that topic ? I can see it getting uglier by the minute.
That is true but I’m not seeing anything to prove that the current situation is bad to the point of breaking anything not already cracked.
We’re talking about people sitting at home being paid rather a lot of welfare and with unlimited ability to communicate electronically.
We’re not talking about people being left starving on the street etc or sent off to a bush hut with no contact with the outside world.
It’s not good but I’ll observe that among those I know and from what I observe more broadly, those struggling are the predictable ones.
Anyone will break at some point just as any structure fails at some point if you keep adding more onto it but nothing I’ve seen yet, either personally or via the media, is to the effect of things having reached that point.
You may or may not have noticed this, but the media is controlled by the government
especially towards making the government look good.
So what if a 70 year old comes down with corona virus. This person has worked for 50 years, paid the Medicare levy plus private health insurance on which he has never claimed. Looking at it that way , he may have a credit balance of say $250k in health related payments. Are you saying that he should in effect be robbed of this money when he needs it most and given to a 20 year old unemployed person who is a drain on the system ?
The point is, valuation of life is essentially a value judgement, you can use your criteria and I can use mine, but no one can say that one method is better than another. The only reasonable way to allocate health resources is on the basis of need and to ensure that our hospitals have the capacity to deal with the number of cases that arrive. That's not easy in a pandemic but that's the reason why governments are trying to reduce the spread.
As to your other comments about my comments, well I concede that it's worse for some people than others but it comes down to the fact that we all are arguing from the viewpoint of own personal circumstances, not necessarily for the good of the whole community.
Have you seen any of Daniel Andrew's press conferences ? The media have been giving him a roasting. Are you telling us that Andrews is a poster boy for the Murdoch media ?, what a laugh.
We are largely ignoring things which cause more deaths than the virus has any chance of taking (I used obesity as an obvious example) and inflicting death and suffering on a huge number of people (which wouldn't be the case in addressing obesity) for the sake of possibly saving a few. If you put any value at all on human lives, surely you would want to save lives?
Are we seeing the media talk about the massive increase in depression, domestic violence, etc etc, at least in any more detail than a token amount?
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