• Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Hello and welcome to Aussie Stock Forums!

To gain full access you must register. Registration is free and takes only a few seconds to complete.

Already a member? Log in here.

Dump it Here

Discussion in 'Beginner's Lounge' started by Skate, Dec 17, 2018.

sentifi.com

Aussie Stock Forum Sentifi Top themes and market attention on:

  1. satanoperca

    satanoperca

    Posts:
    1,422
    Likes Received:
    375
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Well this forum is getting a bit soppy but hands out to both Greggles for being transparent and Barney for his kind comments.

    Need to go the the IGA for the tissues, this forums is getting a little too emotional, in a good way.

    "We are all human with emotions"
     
    barney likes this.
  2. greggles

    greggles I'll be back!

    Posts:
    2,421
    Likes Received:
    1,189
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Thanks Barney. :)

    The way I see it, life is all about evolving as a person and change needs a catalyst. Often that catalyst is hardship. If you're going to take the good then you also have to take the bad. I've suffered, but I'm still here and fortunate enough to live in a country with a better than average social welfare system.

    Something to think about. Even if you lose everything, there's no reason why you can't learn to operate an excavator, rent a house and live out your days putting in your eight hours like anyone else. There are plenty of miserable rich people. If you have love, companionship, and inner peace, what else do you need?

    When I was doing it tough, I learned to stop buying things. I only bought things I absolutely needed like food and other necessities. I rejected consumerism almost completely. Instead of getting a high from buying something, I got a high from going on a hike in a national park with my wife. After a while, I found that I didn't want to buy anything. If something broke, sure I bought another to replace it, but it was often second hand. That was the extent of my consumerism. But in the end, it became incredibly freeing. When you suddenly realise that you don't need a million gadgets or a big screen TV, suddenly your focus shifts to what's really important. Happiness. And you don't need a million bucks to find that. ;)
     
  3. Gringotts Bank

    Gringotts Bank

    Posts:
    6,161
    Likes Received:
    574
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    That's still ego though, just a different form.

    My working theory is that as the ego fades, material success becomes easier. There are some exceptions to this, like people who who gain wealth through dishonesty and control tactics, or people who work their fingers to the bone and save like crazy (neither looks like a good approach to me).

    So you can still have the big TV!
     
    JimmyJames80 and Skate like this.
  4. greggles

    greggles I'll be back!

    Posts:
    2,421
    Likes Received:
    1,189
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    I think what happened to me can be best described as a massive change in priorities. What I thought I wanted, I actually didn't want. But it took a massive change in circumstances for me to realise that.

    I'm not against consumerism, I just realised it's not for me. It doesn't make me happy. Being content with my situation in life does, so that's what I'm working on. I'm not there yet, but I'm making progress. That's my focus now.
     
  5. Newt

    Newt

    Posts:
    380
    Likes Received:
    351
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Sounds like someone who's still learning new tricks, not afraid to take a good hard look at themselves, and setting up foundations for a richer "2nd half". Definitely not out of touch with reality and deluding themselves.
    Kudos for sharing such an frank appraisal of yourself Greggles....
     
    debtfree, qldfrog, barney and 2 others like this.
  6. barney

    barney

    Posts:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    1,196
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    :D ….. If we have "Satan" on our side … who do we have to fear!:p

    Indeed …… :)
     
    Skate, qldfrog and Darc Knight like this.
  7. sptrawler

    sptrawler

    Posts:
    11,924
    Likes Received:
    2,546
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    I think it was a quote on here and it is so very true.
    Happiness is being happy with what you have.

    I'm not just talking in a material way.
     
  8. Smurf1976

    Smurf1976

    Posts:
    9,335
    Likes Received:
    2,720
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2005
    Pick any two famous singers, bands or composers of vastly different musical styles.

    Rap versus country. Hard rock versus classical. Electronic versus jazz. Etc.

    Now what do both of the singers, bands or composers you picked have in common?

    They both did one thing and they did it extremely well.

    If your preference is classical music then you'll probably be quick to say that every song AC/DC ever recorded sounds pretty much the same. Comparing their music to that of anyone else that's a fair comment and it's exactly the point - they did one thing and they did it well enough to make an entire career out of it.

    Hard rock fans will likewise be quick to point out that, minor detail aside, Mozart also wrote lots of essentially the same music. Bingo! Comparing Mozart's music to any other style it is indeed all pretty similar. He didn't do anything with electric guitars in it, right? And people are still listening to it over 200 years later.

    Pick any other random artist and it's much the same. With few exceptions their music is immediately recognizable because yes, most of it is very similar. They're doing one thing and they're doing it well and that's a huge factor in why they're successful.

    Now apply that concept to investing. You don't need to know every trick in the book and trying to do that will almost certainly lead to mediocrity and failure.

    Find something you're good at and which works and keep doing it. If all your share trading entries and exits look much the same then that's not in itself a problem. :2twocents
     
  9. ducati916

    ducati916

    Posts:
    1,926
    Likes Received:
    495
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2006
    1. Yes I do because in contradistinction to Locke's 'nothing is in the intellect that has not previously been in the senses' I agree with Leibniz's reply 'except the intellect itself'.

    Knowledge that has objective supporting evidence comes in two forms: (a) empiricism and (b) synthetic a priori.

    Faith, while certainly qualifying as knowledge, does not have an evidential base, (c)

    So the concept of 'belief' that is currently under discussion can fall under either definition. You can believe due to (a) and (b) or (c). Many will believe using all three, which is fine.

    2. You have yet to identify which 'philosophy' that [for you] is under discussion. For my part, it is epistemology. You have yet to identify any.

    So as far as epistemology goes, yes, my comments/statements do accurately represent [thus far] epistemology. If you have a further basis for the causation and forming of a 'belief' through a philosophy, I'm open to discussion.

    3. I do not share your opinion.

    jog on
    duc
     
    Skate likes this.
  10. Skate

    Skate

    Posts:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    5,296
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    https://www.aussiestockforums.com/posts/1006482/

    Muddling of words do make a difference
    sptrawler, said there was a quote on here about the definition of happiness & if it is one of my quotes it would be timely for me to quote it again for clarity.

    A friend of mine reminded me that I once said:
    “Happiness is appreciating what you have”

    sptrawler remarked, I think it was a quote on here:
    "Happiness is being happy with what you have"


    So close
    My definition of happiness is desiringwhat you have !!

    True happiness (IMHO)
    "Happiness is desiringwhat you have"

    There is a difference..

    Skate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  11. satanoperca

    satanoperca

    Posts:
    1,422
    Likes Received:
    375
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    @Skate, as unusual, I do not understand. Some examples might help me, the definition of "desiring" and "Appreciating" are different as you mentioned.

    Let me see if I can work this riddle out with an example for Happiness.

    1. I appreciate my wife, she makes me happy.
    2. I desire my wife, she makes me happy
    3. I desire the tall, brunette, 10 years younger than me as she will make me happy, but appreciate my wife for the life we have
    4. I desire a better life as it will make me happy
    5. I have a happy life and appreciate everything i have
     
  12. qldfrog

    qldfrog

    Posts:
    2,944
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    I agree with Skate:
    I appreciate what i have..well true but I can still desire the brunette so am i happy ?..well not yet..at least as long as the brunette is around.."what could be" spoil my happiness...

    or Happiness is being happy with what you have
    that is very limiting : yes it is true but does not fit well with my mind: exploring, conquering new territories and going past limits, would I be happy as a corporate tool or civil servant in socialist France taxed to the death with a no future society/ country? Some are, they enjoy their "Free" time, long holidays and holiday residence along the seaside or mountain waiting for retirement..not for me
    whereas if I desire what I have, i feel it as I have reached what I wanted, there are no worthwhile goals target etc
    we are playing with words I know, overall that is the same generic idea.And a good one to remind ourself of..if that last sentence is proper English.
     
    JimmyJames80 and Skate like this.
  13. barney

    barney

    Posts:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    1,196
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Being happy with what you have can be an "acceptance"

    Desiring what you have can be an "aspiration" or an "achievement" depending on your circumstances.

    If we can "enlighten" ourselves to desire what we have …. even though it is much less than what we "want" …. that would be true happiness:oldman::)





    No, she will make you miserable:p:D
     
    JimmyJames80, qldfrog and Skate like this.
  14. Skate

    Skate

    Posts:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    5,296
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    satanoperca, you said:
    "As unusual, I do not understand the definition of "desiring" and "Appreciating"

    @sptrawler made the comment:
    "Happiness is being happy with what you have. I'm not just talking in a material way"

    Both of the posts referenced a feeling, not possessions, so I'll respond in this vain.

    Let me make a few quoted to set the scene
    1. If you love being married, you will be forever in love.
    2. Don't find a wife you can live with, find one you can't live without.
    3. If you want true happiness be nicer than the other.

    Let me unpack item (3) before you ask
    In a relationship if the both of you keep lifting the bar above the other (being nicer than the other) there will be heavenly bliss, remember, you can never be too nice to someone)

    Appreciate & happy
    Sure I appreciate my wife & I'm happy with my wife. (44 years as of last Friday). Those words are so cold.

    Desiring what I have
    I desire my wife, my wife is my life.

    Well what's the difference ?
    1. "Desire" is a deep feeling
    2. "Appreciating" is acknowledging the worth of someone or something.

    I trust my explanation clarifies the difference between the two words, & yes, the words you elect to use do make a difference to the meaning being expressed.

    Skate.
     
    tyson2710, JimmyJames80 and willy1111 like this.
  15. qldfrog

    qldfrog

    Posts:
    2,944
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    maybe said simply:
    "desire" is more visceral , deep
    whereas "appreciate" is more calculated, can be seen as the reasoned acceptance brain over feeling..
    anyway was a nice subject, will try to be kinder with my better half this arvo, and in general
     
    barney, explod and Skate like this.
  16. satanoperca

    satanoperca

    Posts:
    1,422
    Likes Received:
    375
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    That has clarified the difference, thank-you for explaining further, it is appreciated.
     
    JimmyJames80, barney and Skate like this.
  17. cynic

    cynic

    Posts:
    4,434
    Likes Received:
    518
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    On this, I am in disagreement with both, Locke and Leibniz.

    One possible counter, to Locke's quote, might be: 'nothing is in the senses that has not been caused by the intellect'
    If belief precedes the manifestation of that which is believed, then all belief must logically be of the form (c), leaving both, (a) and (b), as empty sets.
    I am surprised to see you state that, and am now wondering what our past few interchanges were truly about.
    I am not certain that I correctly understand what it is you are saying here. My bases for favouring the viewpoint, that manifestation is a consequence of belief, have arisen from some direct personal experiences, of a more practical (as opposed to theoretical) nature.

    I do not wish to taint this philosophy, via assignation of any contemporary labels, lest critics conflate, and/or convolute, a very simple philosophy, with peripheral themes.

    Due to the premise/s of the philosophy, I sincerely doubt that the question of veracity, can be truly settled, via any amount of intellectual debate, irrespective of calibre.

    As soon as any counter argument (or premise/s of same) is believed, the evidential support base, of the contested philosophy, is increased by that very same counter argument (and/or premises thereof)!!!

    Whenever I ask myself, what argument could possibly serve as disproof, the seemingly nearest thing, I ever come up with, is:
    an assertion that is entirely true, whilst, simultaneously, thoroughly disbelieved, by the one asserting it.

    And the problem with the above counter argument is, that, it defeats itself from the outset, because the asserter doesn't actually believe his/her own assertion/s (i.e. lying).

    Needless to say, absence of proof, is not proof of absence. Which is one of my reasons, for choosing to say, that "the proof of this particular pudding, is in the eating".
    That's very good to know!
    (And it need not be a problem, unless one chooses to believe it so!)
    ===============================================================================
    I recently received a private message, from another member, expressing certain opinions, about my contributions to this thread.

    For the benefit of that member, and anyone else feeling similarly inclined, I can thoroughly, and wholeheartedly, recommend a review, of the contents, of Skate's opening post.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
    Gringotts Bank and Skate like this.
  18. Gringotts Bank

    Gringotts Bank

    Posts:
    6,161
    Likes Received:
    574
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Same here, and at times in quite shocking ways. For me the evidence for 'belief causing manifestation' has piled up enough for me to now routinely shift back and forth between the standard model of reality and this alternative one. However it will never be possible to prove/disprove perhaps even to oneself.

    One thing is for sure - most people don't view reality this way. Proposing a different model of reality will be perceieved as highly threatening by some. In a different field of study (not trading), a few of us have completely dismantled the prevailing belief system. It wasn't hard because most belief systems can be ripped apart. We aren't popular, because now the possibility of a new model of reality has reared its head and no one wants that. People cling to their beliefs like nothing else. I assume I do too (in my own way), but it's hard to be objective about myself.
     
  19. cynic

    cynic

    Posts:
    4,434
    Likes Received:
    518
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    It has occurred to me, that this excerpt from one of my earlier posts, might potentially hold some insight (at least in a metaphorical sense) for those market newcomers, eagerly analysing historical data, in the hope of finding a tradable edge.

    Consider the coins, and cointoss results, as metaphors for a specific market instrument and its price action, respectively, and consider the entities (A, B & C), as metaphors for set periods of time.

    So for period A, the market was trending upwards,

    and for period B, the market was trending downwards,

    and for period C, the market went up, then back down, and could be said to have reverted to mean.

    Now consider the widely acclaimed practice of backtesting, and subsequent refinement, via use of historical data.

    What pitfalls does this metaphor highlight?
     
    qldfrog and Skate like this.
  20. Gringotts Bank

    Gringotts Bank

    Posts:
    6,161
    Likes Received:
    574
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Tell us...but keep it simples please! If there's too much sophistication it can alienate people who might otherwise appreciate your ideas. People like me.

    I'm interested.
     
    barney and Skate like this.
Loading...

Share This Page