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Abbott's counter terrorism measures

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SirRumpole said:
The leaders denounced the photograph but did not say anything about the wider subject of jihad.
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Is this enough for you?

“I’m going to use my interactions with the local community during my election campaign to talk about radicalisation and inform mums and dads about the signs and behavioural changes in young people that parents need to be aware of,” Dr Rifi said.

He said he had been “fearful” that his own children could fall under the influence of radical notions of Islam, such as those promoted by Australian terrorists Khaled Sharrouf and Mohamed Elomar, but talking about the issue had been the key. “In my dealings with them I always express my views that the actions of people like Elomar and Sharrouf are not the actions of Muslims and I encourage them to have discussions about these issues to make sure they are less susceptible to extremist ideologies,” he said.

Dr Rifi is likely to be waging his electoral campaign against one of two men with links to the Muslim community: Bankstown Mayor Khal Asfour or Punchbowl Boys High School principal Jihad Dib, both of whom have been named as potential ALP candidates for Lakemba. Whatever the outcome, Dr Rifi said he still worried about the influence of online radicalism on Muslim youth. The emergence at the weekend of a photograph showing Sharrouf’s young son in Syria holding up a severed human head showed the critical need for action, despite attempts in the community advocating moderation.

“We are proud of what we have achieved — we have distanced our communities from the ideologies of ISIS (now known as the Islamic State) and those like ISIS,” he said. “I think the time past since September 11 has proved us right: two or three incidents is not the worst possible outcome and we should get some credit for that. (But) you don’t get to know your religion from behind a (computer) screen. These kids need mentors.”

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He said Sharrouf’s behaviour was “demented” and vowed to “fight that kind of radicalism”.

“He is not serving anyone but his own ego and delusion and it is impacting negatively on his kids, his community and his religion,” Dr Rifi said.

“People like me are the real representatives of the Muslim community, not Sharrouf and not (Mohamed) Elomar — that is the message I want to send.”

NSW Islamic Council head Khaled Sukkarieh concurred, describing the latest Sharrouf images as “beyond belief”. “To see photos of a seven-year-old being subjected to this kind of rubbish, we condemn it all in the name of Islam,” Mr Sukkarieh said.

He said comments by former army chief Peter Leahy in recent days about Australia being engaged in a 100-year war with Islam pitted communities against each other at a time when the country needed to “stand united”.

“The community itself hurts the most as a result of any action by individuals who may hijack Islam for their own purpose,” he said. “If we are going to achieve anything we need to be working together, not sowing seeds of hate for the next 100 years.”
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http://m.theaustralian.com.au/natio...021107822?nk=b2666cd60ee4386c11e1f88f768f8e80

There's some fine guilt by association going on in this thread.
 
McLovin said:
There's some fine guilt by association going on in this thread.
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Absolutely.

I just hope that decent Muslims are farsighted enough not to think we are all guilty of "accusation by association"

I don't want be involved in these threads - But time has come to stand up and say these threads/policies/whatever that imply guilt by association disgust me.

Treat people on their merits - not on your prejudices and the radicals will have so much more trouble recruiting.
 
I just hope that decent Muslims are farsighted enough not to think we are all guilty of "accusation by association"
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No rational person would assert that all Muslims are responsible for the sins of a few. The fact is that people are being radicalised here. Who is doing this ? It must be someone with some authority in the Islamic community who has an extremist interpretation of the Koran. These people need to be pointed out and isolated for the sake of the moderate Muslims and the community.
 
craft said:
Absolutely.

I just hope that decent Muslims are farsighted enough not to think we are all guilty of "accusation by association"

I don't want be involved in these threads - But time has come to stand up and say these threads/policies/whatever that imply guilt by association disgust me.

Treat people on their merits - not on your prejudices and the radicals will have so much more trouble recruiting.
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Agree 100%

I find it hard to swallow that people say things like "Well, they haven't come out and said this or that" - when really it is a case of "They probably have, you're just too lazy and fixed in your views to bother looking & listening for it."
 
No, we mustn't infringe on the privacy or rights or priveleges of any minority group, unless we might upset upset them. We are even carrying it to the ridiculous lengths of continuing to pay welfare and disability payments to those murderous Australian Islamic thugs who are now fighting fof the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, obviously with the support of the Australian Islamic community.

And what sort of disability would a guy like Khaled Sharrouf have. He can chop of heads and hold them aloft. and yet he as receiving $383 a week disability allowance before he pissed off using his brother's passport.

Mr Abbott’s office had previously vowed to investigate options to cease the international portability of welfare payments for people suspected by security agencies of joining militant or terrorist ranks.

An estimated 150 Australians have travelled to the Iraqi and Syrian war zones, about 60 of whom are thought to be on the front line.

It is understood a significant number were receiving unemployment, disability or family payments while at the same time being members of the Islamic State or the al-Qaida-linked al-Nusra Front.

The Government is now considering further measures to stop welfare payments to militants engaged in foreign conflicts, including Iraq and Syria.
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If other Western countries are as gutless as we are, we will be a pushover for spread of the Islamic State. And yet the majority pf posters think appeasement is the best option so that they will learn to love us.:rolleyes:
 
Ves said:
Agree 100%

I find it hard to swallow that people say things like "Well, they haven't come out and said this or that" - when really it is a case of "They probably have, you're just too lazy and fixed in your views to bother looking & listening for it."
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It's obvious who the lazy one is. If you could get off your couch, perhaps you could dig up some examples of where the Muslim leadership here has condemned their rmembers travelling to Syria and Iraq to participate in The Islamic State terrorist activities and genocide.

Sure, they have been upset by The Australian graphically exposing these activities, but not by the activities themselves, even though they all knew that these graphic images were previously widely circulated in their community.

This is a typical reaction;

NSW Islamic Council head Khaled Sukkarieh concurred, describing the latest Sharrouf images as “beyond belief”. “To see photos of a seven-year-old being subjected to this kind of rubbish, we condemn it all in the name of Islam,” Mr Sukkarieh said.
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Calliope said:
It's obvious who the lazy one is. If you could get off your couch, perhaps you could dig up some examples of where the Muslim leadership here has condemned their rmembers travelling to Syria and Iraq to participate in The Islamic State terrorist activities and genocide.

Sure, they have been upset by The Australian graphically exposing these activities, but not by the activities themselves, even though they all knew that these graphic images were previously widely circulated in their community.

This is a typical reaction;
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Can you explain how that quote supports your view that the Muslim community's are upset that the media has published these images and not that they're upset with the image itself? Or am I reading that wrong and it wasn't supposed to support your view? Do you have any quotes from the community's upset with this being published rather than the act itself?
 
overhang said:
Do you have any quotes from the community's upset with this being published rather than the act itself?
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Yes I do. I just gave you one;

NSW Islamic Council head Khaled Sukkarieh concurred, describing the latest Sharrouf images as “beyond belief”. “To see photos of a seven-year-old being subjected to this kind of rubbish, we condemn it all in the name of Islam,” Mr Sukkarieh said.
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Not a word about the atrocities that produced the heads, it's all about "images". Sharrouf had already tweeted these images to his mates in the Muslim community, to show what a great time he was having, and encourage more recruits to the cause of the Islamic State.

I fully understand the Left's desire not to upset the Islamic Community. After all there are several marginal Labor seats in Sydney's West that hinge on the Islamic vote.
 
It's funny how America is now grappling with how to deal with a militiarised police force that looks like it belong in Baghdad. The statistics on the number of times SWAT is used per year as compared to how often it was 15 years ago is amazing, something like a ten fold increase. Especially when considered against the backdrop of falling crime. The ramp up all started so that police would have a counter terrorist ability. For many in America, especially poor blacks, they now live in a dystopian police state.

When you chip away at people's liberties, this is where you end up...

1408067118700.jpg

Washington: The most striking photographs from Ferguson, Missouri, aren't of Saturday's demonstrations or Sunday night's riots; they're of the police. Image after image shows officers clad in Kevlar vests, helmets, and camouflage, armed with pistols, shotguns, automatic rifles, and tear gas. In one photo, protesters stand toe-to-toe with baton-wielding riot police, in another, an unarmed man faces several cops, each with rifles at the ready.

What's more, Ferguson police have used armoured vehicles to show force and control crowds. In one photo, riot gear-clad officers are standing in front of a mine-resistant ambush protected vehicle, barking commands and launching tear gas into groups of demonstrators and journalists.

This would be one thing if Ferguson were in a war zone, or if protesters were violent – although, it's hard to imagine a situation in which American police would need a mine-resistant vehicle. But an episode of looting aside, Ferguson police aren't dealing with any particular danger. Nonetheless, they're treating demonstrators – and Ferguson residents writ large – as a population to occupy, not citizens to protect.

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That police are eager to use their new weapons and vehicles isn't a surprise. As The New York Times notes, "The ubiquity of SWAT teams has changed not only the way officers look, but also the way departments view themselves. Recruiting videos feature clips of officers storming into homes with smoke grenades and firing automatic weapons."

That is how we get images like the ones in Ferguson, where police officers brandish heavy weapons and act as an occupying force. We should expect as much when we give police departments military weapons. Already – when it comes to predominantly black and brown communities – there's a long-standing culture of aggressive, punitive policing. Add assault weapons and armoured vehicles, and you have a recipe for the repressive, violent reactions that we see in Ferguson, and that are likely inevitable in countless other poor American neighbourhoods.
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Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/ferguso...-us-police-20140815-104das.html#ixzz3AQCqOc5Q
 
That police are eager to use their new weapons and vehicles isn't a surprise. As The New York Times notes, "The ubiquity of SWAT teams has changed not only the way officers look, but also the way departments view themselves. Recruiting videos feature clips of officers storming into homes with smoke grenades and firing automatic weapons."

That is how we get images like the ones in Ferguson, where police officers brandish heavy weapons and act as an occupying force. We should expect as much when we give police departments military weapons. Already – when it comes to predominantly black and brown communities – there's a long-standing culture of aggressive, punitive policing. Add assault weapons and armoured vehicles, and you have a recipe for the repressive, violent reactions that we see in Ferguson, and that are likely inevitable in countless other poor American neighbourhoods.
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Yes, that is pretty disturbing, but in gun crazy USA, perhaps not surprising.

Meanwhile in the UK, British bobbies still do not routinely carry weapons.

Evidence of a cultural disparity there...
 
Calliope said:
Yes I do. I just gave you one;



Not a word about the atrocities that produced the heads, it's all about "images". Sharrouf had already tweeted these images to his mates in the Muslim community, to show what a great time he was having, and encourage more recruits to the cause of the Islamic State.

I fully understand the Left's desire not to upset the Islamic Community. After all there are several marginal Labor seats in Sydney's West that hinge on the Islamic vote.
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What is he concurring with? Because it sounds like he like the rest of us believes the image is beyond belief because who would subject a child to this sort of activity. In your quote he didn't once blame the media for publishing the images. If he was talking about the media then why would he say subject a 7 year old to this type of rubbish? As the media haven't subjected the 7 year told to anything at all but rather the extremists have. You are looking for something that is there that simply isn't.
NSW Islamic Council head Khaled Sukkarieh concurred, describing the latest Sharrouf images as “beyond belief”. “To see photos of a seven-year-old being subjected to this kind of rubbish, we condemn it all in the name of Islam,” Mr Sukkarieh said.
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That's funny because I remember Abbott trying very hard to win over those Western Sydney suburbs during election time, didn't he win a few too?
 
McLovin said:
It's funny how America is now grappling with how to deal with a militiarised police force that looks like it belong in Baghdad. The statistics on the number of times SWAT is used per year as compared to how often it was 15 years ago is amazing, something like a ten fold increase. Especially when considered against the backdrop of falling crime. The ramp up all started so that police would have a counter terrorist ability. For many in America, especially poor blacks, they now live in a dystopian police state.

When you chip away at people's liberties, this is where you end up...


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Good points, education and employment opportunities across the planet is what's needed. We were headed that way once with The Columbo Plan.

Forget big highway infrastructure, armies and trying to impress everyone on the news.

If we do not start to be serious about a new positive direction the child holding the dead head will be coming to a street near to you. Yes and on the streets of the US they are well down this track.

This govunment is a joke.

Suggestions are, tackling the issue of expansionism in particular population growth. No surrogacy, medical assisted pregnancies or any forms of welfare on children to be born could be a start.
 
overhang said:
What is he concurring with? Because it sounds like he like the rest of us believes the image is beyond belief because who would subject a child to this sort of activity. In your quote he didn't once blame the media for publishing the images.
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No of course he didn't. How could he? As i told you these images were already common knowledge in rhe Muslim community. There was not a peep out of their leaders, until The Australian splashed them as headlies and put them under the spotlight.

I don't know who you are referring to as "the rest of us". I imagine they all share your political views.:rolleyes: Your views remind me of Neville Chamberlin who brandished his “piece of paper” and proclaimed “peace for our time”, after returning from Munich. His appeasemnt of the Nazi regime allowed Hitler a free hand to run riot in Europe.

Why do you think the Islamist leaders haven't condemned the atrocities against Christian minorities in Iraq by The Islamic State?

Vatican calls on Muslim leaders to condemn Christian persecution in Iraq
Statement suggests dialogue with Islamic representatives may be cut if leaders fail to denounce crimes in name of religion
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...im-leaders-condemn-christian-persecution-iraq
 
Calliope said:
No of course he didn't. How could he? As i told you these images were already common knowledge in rhe Muslim community. There was not a peep out of their leaders, until The Australian splashed them as headlies and put them under the spotlight.

I don't know who you are referring to as "the rest of us". I imagine they all share your political views.:rolleyes: Your views remind me of Neville Chamberlin who brandished his “piece of paper” and proclaimed “peace for our time”, after returning from Munich. His appeasemnt of the Nazi regime allowed Hitler a free hand to run riot in Europe.

Why do you think the Islamist leaders haven't condemned the atrocities against Christian minorities in Iraq by The Islamic State?



http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...im-leaders-condemn-christian-persecution-iraq
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How could he? Well quite easily he could come out and say he is upset with the media portraying Muslims in bad light... but he he didn't and most reasonable people would interpret that 'he' like everyone else is disgusted by this crime. But we all know your predisposition prevents you from any rational judgement on this matter. You wouldn't have the faintest clue but yet make the assumption that the Australian Muslims were passing this photo around like a weekly newsletter amongst each other. I would accept that there would be a small minority in this group who are extremists and had access to this image before the media.

Don't even try and attempt to act like you understand my political views on the subject just because I called you out on your rubbish.
 
Of course it's political and you know it. Right here is the reason why the left rubbish Israelis and kow-tow to the Islamists;

On Monday at the Lakemba mosque, to mark the end of Ramadan, the president of the Lebanese Muslim Association Samier Dandan delivered a speech attacking the Abbott government for its support of Israel and praising the Labor Party for its apparent about-face two days earlier.

The politics of marginal Western Sydney seats appears to be the driver of the change in Labor’s policy on Israel; namely, that the NSW Labor Right is concerned about the Muslim vote in Sydney.
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http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...nternal-intifada/story-fni0cwl5-1227009197074
 
Calliope said:
No of course he didn't. How could he? As i told you these images were already common knowledge in rhe Muslim community. There was not a peep out of their leaders, until The Australian splashed them as headlies and put them under the spotlight.

I don't know who you are referring to as "the rest of us". I imagine they all share your political views.:rolleyes: Your views remind me of Neville Chamberlin who brandished his “piece of paper” and proclaimed “peace for our time”, after returning from Munich. His appeasemnt of the Nazi regime allowed Hitler a free hand to run riot in Europe.

Why do you think the Islamist leaders haven't condemned the atrocities against Christian minorities in Iraq by The Islamic State?



http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...im-leaders-condemn-christian-persecution-iraq
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Your logic sounds similar to the child abuse in various Churches that was common knowledge but action was only taken when various media organisation splashed reports of the coverups.

You can be part of a community and not know everything in it. Maybe the moderate leaders were aware of some horrific photos but hadn't actually seen them? You take the negative view on anything to do with non Christian religions.

By the sounds of it you're all for another Australian soldier presence on the ground in Iraq and the middle east? What kind of military solution are you proposing? Do you expect it to go better than Afghanistan and Iraq? What's the goals and how will they be achieved?
 
sydboy007 said:
By the sounds of it you're all for another Australian soldier presence on the ground in Iraq and the middle east? What kind of military solution are you proposing? Do you expect it to go better than Afghanistan and Iraq? What's the goals and how will they be achieved?
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If that's what it sounds like to you then you are dumber than I thought you were. And of course you take the negative view in respect of non-Islamic religions. You must be having a real problem on whether to support the Sunnis or the Shi'ites who love suicide bombing and beheading each other as well as Chrisitian minorities, and they seem to love their work..:rolleyes:
 
I watched that SBS show Insight presented by Jenny Brockie on Tuesday night and this Mr.Elkholed had been to Syria on a humanity project distributing some $60,000 to the needy....He emphatically warned young Australians against going to Syria.

There was a 19 year old Muslim in the audience in the ISIS uniform and he was being cross questioned for his reason for supporting terrorism in Syria and he keep answering the fact he had to carry out the teachings of the Kuran......There was a blonde headed woman sitting behind him who on occasions kept telling him not to answer.

She left the show half way through and this young man followed suit.......His father, who was in the audience, showed deep concern for his son.....The father could not reason with him to stay in Australia.....that young man was simply a brainwashed zombie........It is the same thing that is happening here in Muslims schools......the Koran clearly states, if you are not a Muslim you must be eliminated.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ould-think-again/story-fnihsrf2-1227025996470

“They want recruits, that’s why they are putting all this rubbish online,’’ he said. “ISIS can’t recruit Syrians, so they need foreigners to join them. I’m hoping their campaign is not a success, but you never know. Time will tell.”

Mr El-Kholed said that during his visits he witnessed IS fighters beheading prisoners during public executions “in front of hundreds of children”, and was lucky to escape injury after being shot at twice at checkpoints in Syria’s largest city of Aleppo.
 
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