The Turnbull Government

[Tisme]

I would suggest, with Tisme post, lets get Billy in and open the flood gates.lol

Contrary to your family indoctrination, neither Malcolm nor Billy are sacred cows. You really need to get a grasp on the concept of free thought and "objective" analysis otherwise it's going to eat you up everytime someone offends your misplaced loyalties. LOL LOL LOL ...enough lols?

You notice how I didn't go the crowd callout, just directed a comment straight at you?

 

[sptrawler]

Free thought should be shared with your alter ego, self promotion and backslapping, doesn't in itself make an argument.

 

[Tisme]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-...p-rejects-federal-gov-claims-blackout/8332384

'The Clean Energy Finance Corporation has rejected the Federal Government's claims that high renewable energy targets are a recipe for blackouts, telling an inquiry that "high levels of renewable penetration are technically feasible and consistent with maintaining energy security".

 

[sptrawler]

We`will see how that pans out, over the next few years, it will happen but not in my lifetime.
Somewhat like self driving cars and electric cars, they will happen, but don't hold your breath.lol
Technically going back to the moon should be easy, why haven't they done it, they said they would?

 

[noco]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-...p-rejects-federal-gov-claims-blackout/8332384

'The Clean Energy Finance Corporation has rejected the Federal Government's claims that high renewable energy targets are a recipe for blackouts, telling an inquiry that "high levels of renewable penetration are technically feasible and consistent with maintaining energy security".

So long as the wind keeps blowing or it does not blow too hard.

 

[bellenuit]

So long as the wind keeps blowing or it does not blow too hard.

Surely solar with battery is fast becoming a viable option. I know the longevity of the batteries is an issue, but that is improving at a fast rate AFAIK

 

[Tisme]

We`will see how that pans out, over the next few years, it will happen but not in my lifetime.
Somewhat like self driving cars and electric cars, they will happen, but don't hold your breath.lol
Technically going back to the moon should be easy, why haven't they done it, they said they would?

I'm for state owned base load coal fired myself.

 

[noco]

Surely solar with battery is fast becoming a viable option. I know the longevity of the batteries is an issue, but that is improving at a fast rate AFAIK

I believe enough battery storage to supply a whole city is a long way off and will be very costly.

What are they doing in the short term?

 

[bellenuit]

I believe enough battery storage to supply a whole city is a long way off and will be very costly.

What are they doing in the short term?

But do they need to do a whole city? In the US, there are several companies that power their factories exclusively from solar. As these come off the grid (or never go on the grid) and more and more homes go off the grid, then the existing base load infrastructure might be able to service the rest.

 

[noco]

But do they need to do a whole city? In the US, there are several companies that power their factories exclusively from solar. As these come off the grid (or never go on the grid) and more and more homes go off the grid, then the existing base load infrastructure might be able to service the rest.

Off course they do.......If a city is reliant on Solar or wind with no batteries and the Sun don't shine or the wind doesn't blow, what then?...Lets not forget South Australia now and in the future without pie in the sky batteries.

 

[bellenuit]

Off course they do.......If a city is reliant on Solar or wind with no batteries and the Sun don't shine or the wind doesn't blow, what then?...Lets not forget South Australia now and in the future without pie in the sky batteries.

You are missing the point. All cities currently have non-renewable power sources so none are exclusively reliant on solar or wind. What I am suggesting is that solar with battery backup can be phased in to both cover new capacity and allow the gradual decommissioning of non-renewable power sources as they become uneconomic or obsolete. My response was in relation to your comment about what power would be available from renewables when the wind doesn't blow.

Significant reduction in power requirements can be achieved by those homes and businesses that can go off grid (solar plus battery) going off grid, incentives to use lower powered devices for everyone (though they probably don't need monetary incentives at this stage as they pay for themselves) and power usage pricing that helps load balancing.

I'm not suggesting dumping non-renewable sources all at once, but perhaps not replacing them when they have reached the ends of their useful lives and instead spending the dollars on solar and batteries (where it makes sense geographically). A target of 50% renewables doesn't seem unachievable, but over a longer time frame than the ALP proposes.

 

[bellenuit]

I'm not suggesting dumping non-renewable sources all at once, but perhaps not replacing them when they have reached the ends of their useful lives and instead spending the dollars on solar and batteries (where it makes sense geographically). A target of 50% renewables doesn't seem unachievable, but over a longer time frame than the ALP proposes.

House by house, factory by factory we will get there.....

Supplier Ibiden Commits to 100 Percent Renewable Energy For Apple Manufacturing

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/03/08/apple-supplier-ibiden-100-percent-renewable-energy/

 

[noco]

You are missing the point. All cities currently have non-renewable power sources so none are exclusively reliant on solar or wind. What I am suggesting is that solar with battery backup can be phased in to both cover new capacity and allow the gradual decommissioning of non-renewable power sources as they become uneconomic or obsolete. My response was in relation to your comment about what power would be available from renewables when the wind doesn't blow.

Significant reduction in power requirements can be achieved by those homes and businesses that can go off grid (solar plus battery) going off grid, incentives to use lower powered devices for everyone (though they probably don't need monetary incentives at this stage as they pay for themselves) and power usage pricing that helps load balancing.

I'm not suggesting dumping non-renewable sources all at once, but perhaps not replacing them when they have reached the ends of their useful lives and instead spending the dollars on solar and batteries (where it makes sense geographically). A target of 50% renewables doesn't seem unachievable, but over a longer time frame than the ALP proposes.

According to Labor a target of 50% renewables will cost the tax payer $40 billion.

What about big business and cities, how will they be catered for if solar and wind fail?

 

[SirRumpole]

According to Labor a target of 50% renewables will cost the tax payer $40 billion.

And what will "clean" coal cost the taxpayer ?

 

[noco]

And what will "clean" coal cost the taxpayer ?

$5 to 6 billion for a 1600 mw plant the size of Halzelwood......Cheaper cost, more efficient and more reliable.

 

[SirRumpole]

$5 to 6 billion for a 1600 mw plant the size of Halzelwood......Cheaper cost, more efficient and more reliable.

What is your source for that ?

Does it include carbon capture and storage ?

 

[noco]

What is your source for that ?

Does it include carbon capture and storage ?

You obviously have sleep at the wheel......That figure was derived and posted under the appropriate thread....It is all there for you see.

 

[SirRumpole]

You obviously have sleep at the wheel......That figure was derived and posted under the appropriate thread....It is all there for you see.

One power station isn't going to supply the whole country, so it's an invalid comparison.

If you are saying there should be no wind or solar, what's the estimate for an all coal grid ?

 

[noco]

One power station isn't going to supply the whole country, so it's an invalid comparison.

If you are saying there should be no wind or solar, what's the estimate for an all coal grid ?

Solar and wind isn't going to supply the whole country either so what is your point of comparison....BTW where did I say there should be no solar or wind generation?

Why be so difficult when with a little more effort you could be impossible.

We have wind and solar enforced on us whether we liked it or not......The cost to the consumer and to business in South Australia with increased cost of renewables will eventually close business and loss of jobs.......Watch what happens in SA this year ...more blackouts will come.......Jay Wetherill does not seem to have much confidence his renewables when he is suggesting to big business to install their own diesel power plants......He is encouraging more pollution going against the grain of his Green scheme.

 

[bellenuit]

According to Labor a target of 50% renewables will cost the tax payer $40 billion.

What about big business and cities, how will they be catered for if solar and wind fail?

I haven't mentioned wind so in relation to solar, how do you mean fail. How does solar / battery fail in a country that experiences some of the longest hours of sunshine per day, when the solar / battery installations are installed in individual households and enterprises. Failure, were it to occur, would be at the individual household / enterprise level and should have no impact on others in the immediate neighbourhood, unlike grid supplied power. The installation cost too is borne by the household and enterprise, unlike large grid based solar schemes. If you read what I said, you would see that existing non-renewable infrastructure is only decommissioned at the end of its useful life and we are only looking at a long term 50% renewable target.