Where is/can Donald Trump take US (sic)?

[Gringotts Bank]

This is not good.....China won't be happy about this and it will certainly result in a souring of relations.

China won't be happy? That's bloody tough **** for them.

The whole world tip-toes around China like they're going to explode if anyone stands up to them. I'm very happy Trump has the balls to confront them and call them out on the way they do business. All the other world leaders kow tow to them because 1) there's money there and 2) they're scared of their bully tactics. The Communist party has only ever looked after its its own interests, and they've done that by being very manipulative and secretive - so let's see how they manage when someone calls their hand. The Party hierarchy will be quietly sh1tting itself, because honesty and openness is not part of their M.O. Trump's unfiltered speech and open attitude would terrify them.

 

[SirRumpole]

China won't be happy? That's bloody tough **** for them.

The whole world tip-toes around China like they're going to explode if anyone stands up to them. I'm very happy Trump has the balls to confront them and call them out on the way they do business. All the other world leaders kow tow to them because 1) there's money there and 2) they're scared of their bully tactics. The Communist party has only ever looked after its its own interests, and they've done that by being very manipulative and secretive - so let's see how they manage when someone calls their hand. The Party hierarchy will be quietly sh1tting itself, because honesty and openness is not part of their M.O. Trump's unfiltered speech and open attitude would terrify them.

Plus the fact that Taiwan has been unfairly on the outer from the rest of the world for decades. They don't even have a seat in the UN. That's a country with the population of Australia, and we insist on lecturing the rest of the world with our "values".

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Plus the fact that Taiwan has been unfairly on the outer from the rest of the world for decades. They don't even have a seat in the UN. That's a country with the population of Australia, and we insist on lecturing the rest of the world with our "values".

It's like those stories you hear about abusive relationships.

"I saw you on the phone. Who were you speaking to? It was Trump wasn't it? WASN'T IT?"

Exactly the same dynamic.

If the commies had their way, the OneChina policy would extend far beyond their illegal grabbing of territory in the South China Sea. The heavy-handed 'push, build, arm and occupy'. And everyone in the region knows this.

 

[CanOz]

It's like those stories you hear about abusive relationships.

"I saw you on the phone. Who were you speaking to? It was Trump wasn't it? WASN'T IT?"

Exactly the same dynamic.

If the commies had their way, the OneChina policy would extend far beyond their illegal grabbing of territory in the South China Sea. And everyone in the region knows that.

Not sure about you, but I'm not interested in a cold war, or trade war (or hot war) with China, or anyone else....:bad: Its bad for the world economy, Australia's economy and just plain bad news! Tensions are already tight enough in the Asian region...What the US has done is not a diplomatic path...

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Not sure about you, but I'm not interested in a cold war, or trade war (or hot war) with China, or anyone else....:bad: Its bad for the world economy, Australia's economy and just plain bad news! Tensions are already tight enough in the Asian region...What the US has done is not a diplomatic path...

I definitely don't want that. But when bullies appear on the scene, sometimes another bully is needed to sit them on their asre.

It's not diplomatic, but what about when the Chinese start extending their South China Sea boundaries? When they just keep creeping outwards, secretively occupying new islands and atolls, then building military bases on them? That has to be stopped and there is absolutely no way an Australian politician would have the balls to say 'no' to that. Aus politicians would be more likely to say "oh here... build a military base in the Darwin port! We have farmland too... would you like that? We sorta need the money because we can't manage our finances".

 

[McLovin]

Not sure about you, but I'm not interested in a cold war, or trade war (or hot war) with China, or anyone else....:bad: Its bad for the world economy, Australia's economy and just plain bad news! Tensions are already tight enough in the Asian region...What the US has done is not a diplomatic path...

Me neither. There's already enough problems in the SCS. That situation needs diplomacy. Opening up an old wound by reaching out to Taiwan will just make the Chinese more recalcitrant wrt the SCS.

Taiwan-China relations had actually been improving in recent years. The PRC has been pretty pragmatic about it.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Like the way Assad and ISIS were allowed to run riot because no one would stand up to them? ... ending in a refugee crisis of millions of people and the degradation of Europe??

Sometimes you need someone with guts to make the hard decisions. If the UN (for example) were allowed to use force, they could have saved so many lives and so much suffering.

Bullies just continue until someone stops them. There might be diplomatic ways to do this, but that's for another thread.

 

[McLovin]

Like the way Assad and ISIS were allowed to run riot because no one would stand up to them? ... ending in a refugee crisis of millions of people and the degradation of Europe??

No. Totally different.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

No. Totally different.

End result is similar. The Chinese way of war is to appear peaceful, breed like crazy and force massive numbers into surrounding countries. When you constitute a majority, and sufficient numbers of your ilk are in positions of power, you own the country. The zillions of people in the lower classes are grinding away, keeping the machine running, and all they get is a bowl of rice and promise of wealth. If Trump really wanted to upset the apple cart, he'd let the lower classes know they're being used. [Or he could open the borders to Chinese factory workers and offer them US wages. haha :]

 

[luutzu]

I definitely don't want that. But when bullies appear on the scene, sometimes another bully is needed to sit them on their asre.

It's not diplomatic, but what about when the Chinese start extending their South China Sea boundaries? When they just keep creeping outwards, secretively occupying new islands and atolls, then building military bases on them? That has to be stopped and there is absolutely no way an Australian politician would have the balls to say 'no' to that. Aus politicians would be more likely to say "oh here... build a military base in the Darwin port! We have farmland too... would you like that? We sorta need the money because we can't manage our finances".

See here for how many bases the US have around the world: about 800.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/us-military-bases-around-the-world-119321#ixzz3howbepPo

 

[Gringotts Bank]

See here for how many bases the US have around the world: about 800.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/us-military-bases-around-the-world-119321#ixzz3howbepPo

Hopefully Trump will close up a lot of these. I think he's interested in withdrawing from the role of 'US as the world's police', isn't he? Saving money to put into local projects? Would make sense.

 

[CanOz]

Hopefully Trump will close up a lot of these. I think he's interested in withdrawing from the role of 'US as the world's police', isn't he? Saving money to put into local projects? Would make sense.

Are you listening to yourself?

 

[luutzu]

Hopefully Trump will close up a lot of these. I think he's interested in withdrawing from the role of 'US as the world's police', isn't he? Saving money to put into local projects? Would make sense.

He did say the US became weak under Obama; that the Russians are way ahead in nuclear weapons.

Look at the guys he's putting in charge of the Pentagon and intelligence agencies. Generals and... more generals.

Obama has more continuous wars under his entire administration than any other US president in history. He expanded the drone programme that takes out suspected terrorist instead of torturing them for info - I guess they know everything now anyway and human rights belong to someone who's not droned?

If Obama is "weak", god help us when Trump sets out to Make America Strong Again (TM).



----
So they're spending $US100B on bases; about $200B if you count bases and soldiers. That's per year... but they can't connect pipes for clean drinking water to their cities? And just a few days ago their people are protesting across some 352 cities to fight for $15 an hour.

 

[SirRumpole]

End result is similar. The Chinese way of war is to appear peaceful, breed like crazy and force massive numbers into surrounding countries. ]

Like a lot of the Chinese immigrants now in this country. The ones that protest against our opposition to Chinese expansionism.

 

[CanOz]

End result is similar. The Chinese way of war is to appear peaceful, breed like crazy and force massive numbers into surrounding countries. ]

Hmmm no...The Chinese I personally know here, quite a few too, despise the leadership in China...

 

[Gringotts Bank]

So they're spending $US100B on bases; about $200B if you count bases and soldiers. That's per year

Big savings to be had by withdrawing some/most of that.

 

[McLovin]

Hopefully Trump will close up a lot of these. I think he's interested in withdrawing from the role of 'US as the world's police', isn't he? Saving money to put into local projects? Would make sense.

So you expect someone to stand up to China, but America should withdraw from the region. That doesn't seem awfully well thought out.

For some context on what these bases actually cost...

Q: How many troops does the U.S. have in Japan and Korea?

A: Approximately 54,000 military personnel, 42,000 dependents, and 800 civil-service employees work at 85 facilities in Japan, according to U.S. Forces, Japan spokesman John Severns. In addition, the bases employ 25,500 Japanese nationals who work as clerks, firefighters, doctors and the like. There are about 28,500 U.S. troops in South Korea.

Q: How much does the U.S. presence in Japan cost the U.S. each year?

A: Including personnel costs, the U.S. is set to spend roughly $5.5 billion on its Japan presence in the year beginning Oct. 1, 2016, according to President Barack Obama’s budget proposal released in February.

Q: Does Japan pay anything for the bases?

A: Yes. Japan’s budget for the year that began April 1 includes ¥192 billion ($1.7 billion) in direct support for the bases. Tokyo covers more than 90% of the cost of the 25,500 Japanese nationals working at the bases and most of the utility costs. In addition, it pays for other costs arising from the U.S. presence such as rent for private and public land used by the bases as well as noise abatement and other measures to help people living nearby. Altogether, the Japanese budget includes ¥450 billion ($4 billion) of base-related expenses.

Q: How much does South Korea pay for the bases and why are they there?

A: South Korea paid around $866.6 million in 2014 for the U.S. military presence in the country, according to the South Korean government, around 40% of total cost. The U.S. maintains its presence there to counter North Korea, which has been boosting its strategic military capabilities against the U.S. and its Asia allies by conducting atomic-bomb tests and missile launches.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/q-a-how-much-do-u-s-military-bases-in-japan-and-korea-cost-1461822624

Seems a pretty small price to pay to keep peace between your biggest creditor and biggest trade partners.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Are you listening to yourself?

I contradicted myself only a little bit.

I'd support the withdrawal of most US bases worldwide, whilst retaining a presence in SE Asia which is just strong enough to halt China, but not strong enough to provoke conflict. China should never be allowed to become the World's dominant country, for obvious reasons. At least not until democracy emerges.

There's a PLU bias in what I say. But we all have the PLU bias.

 

[McLovin]

I'd support the withdrawal of most US bases worldwide, whilst retaining a presence in SE Asia which is just strong enough to halt China, but not strong enough to provoke conflict.

For obvious historical reasons, the US have no bases in SE Asia. So there's no presence to retain.

 

[SirRumpole]

So you expect someone to stand up to China, but America should withdraw from the region. That doesn't seem awfully well thought out.
.

Just maybe Trump could broker a reconcilliation between Taiwan and the PRC. It doesn't necessarily have to be conflict based. Basically China needs to be taken down a peg but it could improve its PR image by giving some ground on areas like Taiwan and the South China Sea.

Whether the dinosaurs in the People's Congress see it that way is another matter. The US would be silly to push too hard militarily , but trade is a weapon too.