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Abbott's counter terrorism measures

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noco said:
I watched that SBS show Insight presented by Jenny Brockie on Tuesday night and this Mr.Elkholed had been to Syria on a humanity project distributing some $60,000 to the needy....He emphatically warned young Australians against going to Syria.

There was a 19 year old Muslim in the audience in the ISIS uniform and he was being cross questioned for his reason for supporting terrorism in Syria and he keep answering the fact he had to carry out the teachings of the Kuran......There was a blonde headed woman sitting behind him who on occasions kept telling him not to answer.

She left the show half way through and this young man followed suit.......His father, who was in the audience, showed deep concern for his son.....The father could not reason with him to stay in Australia.....that young man was simply a brainwashed zombie........It is the same thing that is happening here in Muslims schools......the Koran clearly states, if you are not a Muslim you must be eliminated.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ould-think-again/story-fnihsrf2-1227025996470

“They want recruits, that’s why they are putting all this rubbish online,’’ he said. “ISIS can’t recruit Syrians, so they need foreigners to join them. I’m hoping their campaign is not a success, but you never know. Time will tell.”

Mr El-Kholed said that during his visits he witnessed IS fighters beheading prisoners during public executions “in front of hundreds of children”, and was lucky to escape injury after being shot at twice at checkpoints in Syria’s largest city of Aleppo.
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This is what our law enforcement should be targeting. Propaganda and brainwashing content. How is another matter. Could start with the ISP's and the like as they have the capabilities to monitor was is being hosted via their IP addresses. Might take a joint international effort though.

Why even M$ has taken down sites hosted elsewhere: http://www.noip.com/blog/2014/07/10/microsoft-takedown-details-updates/

Update: Details on Microsoft Takeover
July 10, 2014·by Natalie Goguen

Earlier today, we released a joint statement with Microsoft announcing the settlement of the unprecedented and overreaching seizure of 23 of our domains. We are thrilled to announce the settlement of this dispute and are excited to return to work connecting our 18 million users to their website and devices.

How did this happen?
On Monday, June 30, 2014, Microsoft obtained a US court order to take control of our most popular domain names used by both our Free and Enhanced Dynamic DNS services. As a result, nearly 5 million hostnames went dark and 1.8 million customer websites and devices became unreachable.

Why did this happen?
Microsoft suspected some of our customers were abusing our service for malicious purposes. However, instead of reporting the malicious activity to our abuse department or law enforcement, Microsoft decided to secretly sue us in civil court.

By filing an ex parte temporary restraining order (TRO), No-IP was prevented from having any knowledge of the case or offering any support in stopping malicious activity. Had Microsoft submitted evidence of abuse at any time, No-IP would have taken swift action to validate the claims and ban any accounts that were proven to be malicious. Instead, Microsoft wasted many months while malicious activity continued.

To state this as emphatically as possible — this entire situation could have been avoided if only Microsoft had followed industry standards. A quick email or call to the No-IP abuse team would have removed the abusive hostnames from the No-IP network.

Microsoft cited 22,000 hostnames that were abusive. Out of those 22,000 seized hostnames, the No-IP abuse department found only a fraction of the hostnames to still be active, which means that many had already been banned through our existing abuse procedures.

Microsoft promised the judge they would only block the hostnames alleged to be malicious and would forward all the remaining traffic for the non-abusive hostnames on to No-IP. This did not happen. The Microsoft DNS servers were misconfigured and failed to respond to our usual volume of billions of queries a day.

On July 1 at 6:00 AM, Microsoft claimed to resolve this error and reported that all domains were fully operational.
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Craton said:
This is what our law enforcement should be targeting. Propaganda and brainwashing content. How is another matter. Could start with the ISP's and the like as they have the capabilities to monitor was is being hosted via their IP addresses. Might take a joint international effort though.

Why even M$ has taken down sites hosted elsewhere: http://www.noip.com/blog/2014/07/10/microsoft-takedown-details-updates/

Update: Details on Microsoft Takeover
July 10, 2014·by Natalie Goguen
Click to expand...

From last Sunday

http://www.zdnet.com/au/turnbull-admits-limitations-of-data-retention-proposal-7000032480/

Speaking at the GovHack awards in Brisbane on Sunday, Turnbull departed from his set speech after facing a number of questions from the audience on the proposal. He again clarified that web browsing history would not be retained and it would simply be the IP addresses for user accounts.

But he admitted that there were "costs and practicalities" that still needed to be addressed with the internet service providers, in particular with ISPs that have very rapid allocation of IP addresses to users.

He joked, however, that the tech-savvy audience members for the GovHack awards would have no trouble circumventing any data retention scheme that would be established by the government.

"Your web surfing history is a matter for you. You've all got VPNs [Virtual Private Networks] anyway, so all of you appear to be somewhere in Iowa when you go online, I know that. Anyway, I won't go on," he said.

I'd love to see a lot of damaging content on the internet blocked, but unless you can get it blocked at the top of the DNS tree it's pretty easy to bypass any country based blocks. Even China doesn't have 100% success in blocking international content they don't like - they generally end up using a sledge hammer to crack the peanut and block entire domains when they take offence to something.

The fact is it's very cheap and very easy, and getting easier, to avoid most electronic snooping by Governments.
 
sydboy007 said:
The fact is it's very cheap and very easy, and getting easier, to avoid most electronic snooping by Governments.
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All lot has to do with the fact govts. had no idea of the potential back in the day. To me, they are all still playing catch up.

Your right of course, very difficult for security agencies to stay ahead of the curve without screening each and every packet header and payload. Oh wouldn't they love that! No, wait, didn't someone say NSA and PRISM?

As I've said before, I don't think what the govt. is proposing will do diddly squat in capturing the targeted groups but will simply create a honey pot of extremely valuable data and force those groups to go even darker. To make matters worse, it will be these very same targeted groups that will seek that very same fat, juicy data either by stealth or by force for their own nefarious means.
 
SirRumpole said:
So, can the govmint find out who is using VPN's ?
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https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=anonymous vpn

Not if you sign up with the correct one and they're able to resist hacking.

The aussie Govt would know you've connected to the anonymous VPN server, but they have no idea where your traffic has gone afterwards.

Plenty of services advertise the extreme lengths to which they to go to ensure the anonymity of their servers - no hard drives, no form of logging, so even if the servers are taken away there's nothing of use in them.

My VPN provider does the above as well as located some servers in jurisdictions that would not be particularly cooperative with a western govt requesting information.
 
noco said:
I watched that SBS show Insight presented by Jenny Brockie on Tuesday night and this Mr.Elkholed had been to Syria on a humanity project distributing some $60,000 to the needy....He emphatically warned young Australians against going to Syria.

There was a 19 year old Muslim in the audience in the ISIS uniform and he was being cross questioned for his reason for supporting terrorism in Syria and he keep answering the fact he had to carry out the teachings of the Kuran......There was a blonde headed woman sitting behind him who on occasions kept telling him not to answer.

She left the show half way through and this young man followed suit.......His father, who was in the audience, showed deep concern for his son.....The father could not reason with him to stay in Australia.....that young man was simply a brainwashed zombie........It is the same thing that is happening here in Muslims schools......the Koran clearly states, if you are not a Muslim you must be eliminated.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ould-think-again/story-fnihsrf2-1227025996470

“They want recruits, that’s why they are putting all this rubbish online,’’ he said. “ISIS can’t recruit Syrians, so they need foreigners to join them. I’m hoping their campaign is not a success, but you never know. Time will tell.”

Mr El-Kholed said that during his visits he witnessed IS fighters beheading prisoners during public executions “in front of hundreds of children”, and was lucky to escape injury after being shot at twice at checkpoints in Syria’s largest city of Aleppo.
Click to expand...



When they (young, naive, 'easily influenced' Muslims) watch stuff like this....well, it's not going to turn out well...



Wahhabi Cleric Explains Proper Way of Beheading to his Followers: You Should Enjoy Yourselves

 
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The aussie Govt would know you've connected to the anonymous VPN server, but they have no idea where your traffic has gone afterwards.
Click to expand...

I suppose even using a VPN could be an indication that people have something to hide. This is supposed to be the underground network for pedophile rings among other things.

Of course, they can be used to deter hacking, so it seems impossible to sort the wheat (innocent users) from the chaff (terrorists and crims).
 
SirRumpole said:
I suppose even using a VPN could be an indication that people have something to hide. This is supposed to be the underground network for pedophile rings among other things.

Of course, they can be used to deter hacking, so it seems impossible to sort the wheat (innocent users) from the chaff (terrorists and crims).
Click to expand...

* Most companies require you to use one for remote access to the office

* Lots of people use them to say watch Hulu int he USA or BBC iplayer or other online services that geoblock.

I'd say the vast majority of VPN traffic is innocent.

Now the Govt did indicate they were going to legislate they could force the handing over of VPN encryption keys, but to my way of thinking that would only work for a VPN located within Australia.

Pretty much Turnbull has already admitted the policy is easily avoided. I'd not be surprised in sign ups to the various VPN providers have taken off.
 
How barbaric these Muslim radicals are, how desperate they are to give Christians two choices......convert to Islam or be killed.

Once again it is being left to the Americans, the Brits and the Aussies to eradicate this world menace...

What do we have the United Nations for if they can't show some spine to bring ISIS into line.....The UN is a toothless tiger. It is supposed to be the UN roll in preventing these wars.

Why aren't the UN investigating who is supplying the arms and money to this group and impose trade sanctions as has been done to Russia over the Ukraine disturbance?



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...men-and-children/story-fnb64oi6-1227027038863

Here are a couple of comments to this link which makes a lot of sense.

Jim 4 hours ago

And some Muslim leaders deliebrately fail to mention this, and the growing number of similar barbaric and evil crimes against humanity carried out by ISIS, when they talk of the "noble act" of young men going to the Middle East to "help" their fellow man. Shameful.
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peter
peter 4 hours ago

There is but one solution to this problem. There must be a major interdict into Iraq with small bands os SAS or other elite groups co-ordinating air support to destroy supply lines and disrupt communications of ISIS> Then there should be a complete elimination of the ISIS troops as a fighting force. Nothing but complete annihilation will do. Any small remnant will only grow like a rotting lichen elsewhere.
 
noco said:
How barbaric these Muslim radicals are, how desperate they are to give Christians two choices......convert to Islam or be killed.

Once again it is being left to the Americans, the Brits and the Aussies to eradicate this world menace...

What do we have the United Nations for if they can't show some spine to bring ISIS into line.....The UN is a toothless tiger. It is supposed to be the UN roll in preventing these wars.

Why aren't the UN investigating who is supplying the arms and money to this group and impose trade sanctions as has been done to Russia over the Ukraine disturbance?
Click to expand...

* The current Iraq mess is due to the coalition of the willing going into Iraq in 2003. There were no radicals in Iraq prior to this.
* Core ISIL troops were trained by the USA back in 2012 in Jordan in the hopes they'd be able to topple the Assad regime in Syria.
* Lets not forget the overthrow of Gaddafi orchestrated by the USA and how well that's gone for the Libyan people
* The Taliban morphed from the troops the USA trained in Afghanistan to fight the Russians so many years ago.

Do you see the pattern yet?
 
sydboy007 said:
* The current Iraq mess is due to the coalition of the willing going into Iraq in 2003. There were no radicals in Iraq prior to this.
* Core ISIL troops were trained by the USA back in 2012 in Jordan in the hopes they'd be able to topple the Assad regime in Syria.
* Lets not forget the overthrow of Gaddafi orchestrated by the USA and how well that's gone for the Libyan people
* The Taliban morphed from the troops the USA trained in Afghanistan to fight the Russians so many years ago.

Do you see the pattern yet?
Click to expand...

Saddam Hussein did gas thousands of Kurds....so what would you have called Saddam Husein?

Rumpy, I do agree with you regarding the USA.......the Yanks did unwittingly try to force democracy on Iraq and Afghanistan for what ever reason.....Many say it was all about oil but I learned today that the Yanks only purchase about 12.9% of their consumption from the middle east.

Perhaps, those countries like Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan may have been better ruled by their dictators who used an iron fist if anyone stepped out of line....it is called genocide......that seems to be the way it was where there was always fear instilled in the minds of their citizens.

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised
 
noco said:
Saddam Hussein did gas thousands of Kurds....so what would you have called Saddam Husein?

Rumpy, I do agree with you regarding the USA.......the Yanks did unwittingly try to force democracy on Iraq and Afghanistan for what ever reason.....Many say it was all about oil but I learned today that the Yanks only purchase about 12.9% of their consumption from the middle east.

Perhaps, those countries like Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan may have been better ruled by their dictators who used an iron fist if anyone stepped out of line....it is called genocide......that seems to be the way it was where there was always fear instilled in the minds of their citizens.

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised
Click to expand...

Not denying the dictators of those countries were bad, just that you're calling for more intervention when the mess we we can draw near direct lines to various interventions and each time we seem to have had a much worse outcome.

Pretty much the Americans helped to create the mujahideen in Afghanistan that later morphed into the Taliban that then gave us 9/11 and then the war in Afghanistan and the Iraqi mess. Then in desperation the US helped encourage the Arab spring which lead to more war in Syria and training of locals there who then turned into core fighters for ISIL and now Iraq is turning into a lawless state similar to what Afghanistan was as a refuge for the Taliban.

So if the Americans hadn't decided to involve themselves in Afghanistan all those years ago, hadn't decided to go into Iraq and while leaving Afghanistan a broken mess, hadn't trained the syrians opposition the art of urban asymmetrical warfare, would we still have the middle east slowly descending into militant Islam?

So exactly how is the USA UK Australia Canada et al supposed to make ti all better when in many ways we caused the mess you see. Why would anyone else want to get involved in the quagmire?

I say enough is enough. Buy the least amount of oil from these countries as we can, stop trading with them, ignore them as much as we can, and let them exhaust themselves with their hate until they realise, as the west did a few hundred years ago, that religions shouldn't run countries.

I'm sick of my tax dollars going to fund wars on the other side of the world that we have no business being involved in!
 
noco said:
Rumpy, I do agree with you regarding the USA.......the Yanks did unwittingly try to force democracy on Iraq and Afghanistan for what ever reason....
Click to expand...

I didn't write that, it was syd, however I agree that if it wasn't for superpower competition in terms of territory and the arms trade, the ME may be a lot more peaceful than it is now.

The Russians were first into Afghanistan, and the US was first into Iraq, after arming Hussein and making it possible for him to carry out his atrocities.

Probably the US hoped that Iraq would seriously weaken Iran, who the US had serious problems with, including Iran taking US hostages, and Hussein did his best to oblige, the Iraq-Iran war was the longest war of the 20th century and killed hundreds of thousands on both sides.
 
noco said:
Saddam Hussein did gas thousands of Kurds....so what would you have called Saddam Husein?

Rumpy, I do agree with you regarding the USA.......the Yanks did unwittingly try to force democracy on Iraq and Afghanistan for what ever reason.....Many say it was all about oil but I learned today that the Yanks only purchase about 12.9% of their consumption from the middle east.

Perhaps, those countries like Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan may have been better ruled by their dictators who used an iron fist if anyone stepped out of line....it is called genocide......that seems to be the way it was where there was always fear instilled in the minds of their citizens.

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised
Click to expand...

Have a look at the petroleum companies involved in the area, French, USA and the UK. They pull most of the strings on fuel and want to keep it that way.

The manufacture (as distinct from obvious supply) of arms is another one very much to US companies in roundabout ways of course.

Jennie Brockie's show the last week (SBS) demonstrated very clearly the inroads we could make if parties could be sat down to talk and understand each other. Many of these terrorists are from poor circumstances with no real education and as young as 12. Get good TONY to work in this direction.

At the moment the short term chaos is out of control. When are we going to walk from this approach and help people to understand and in turn to help each other.
 
SirRumpole said:
I didn't write that, it was syd, however I agree that if it wasn't for superpower competition in terms of territory and the arms trade, the ME may be a lot more peaceful than it is now.

The Russians were first into Afghanistan, and the US was first into Iraq, after arming Hussein and making it possible for him to carry out his atrocities.

Probably the US hoped that Iraq would seriously weaken Iran, who the US had serious problems with, including Iran taking US hostages, and Hussein did his best to oblige, the Iraq-Iran war was the longest war of the 20th century and killed hundreds of thousands on both sides.
Click to expand...

My apology Rumpy mistaking you for Syd.....I trust you were not insulted?
 
explod said:
Have a look at the petroleum companies involved in the area, French, USA and the UK. They pull most of the strings on fuel and want to keep it that way.

The manufacture (as distinct from obvious supply) of arms is another one very much to US companies in roundabout ways of course.

Jennie Brockie's show the last week (SBS) demonstrated very clearly the inroads we could make if parties could be sat down to talk and understand each other. Many of these terrorists are from poor circumstances with no real education and as young as 12. Get good TONY to work in this direction.

At the moment the short term chaos is out of control. When are we going to walk from this approach and help people to understand and in turn to help each other.
Click to expand...


You should talk to the radical Muslims about that....they have one thing in mind and that is World domination and they are trying to do it by fear without favors.
Ex General Peter Leahy predicts this could go on for another 100 years.....you, I and Tony will be long gone by then.
 
noco said:
You should talk to the radical Muslims about that....they have one thing in mind and that is World domination and they are trying to do it by fear without favors.
Ex General Peter Leahy predicts this could go on for another 100 years.....you, I and Tony will be long gone by then.
Click to expand...

You keep ignoring the fact that the WEST created most of it

Arms and training from the west created the Taliban

Arms and training from the west created ISIL

Do you think the insane policy of going for a 3rd round will achieve a different outcome?? 3rd times a charm I suppose.

I'm with explod on trying to get these people to realise they're mostly the same and that there's no need to keep on killing each other, but I'm also over us fiddling in the affairs of other countries to either further our own agenda or because we think we know best.

Unless you expect America to keep a perpetual fly over in Iraq, exactly what do you expect them to do and achieve?

When the Govt here is trying push through legislation to make the under 30s destitute if they lose their job, I'd prefer the money we're wasting on our foreign military adventures to be spent at home for the betterment of the Australian people. The cost of just the Iraq war for Australia was $3B back in 2007 so who knows how much it is now. The Americans have wasted going on 2 trillion, with forecasts the long tail costs of all the broken soldiers needing support to bring the full cost to $6T. The Brits went through over 30B pounds in Afghanistan and Iraq and the Canadians had spent $22B by 2008. What did we get for it? Hundreds of thousands of deaths and a country more riddled with despair than when it was under the rule of a vicious and cruel dictator. I don't think we can afford to have that kind of success any more.

Imagine if that money had been spent on building factories and infrastructure to give the locals hope. People with jobs and a future to look forward to don't strap bomb vests to themselves or go around the world looking to kill someone. Imagine the universities and schools that could have been built, providing education to girls and encouraging a more secular malaysian / indonesian style of islam. Definitely harder to implement than your bomb them way, but at least we'd have had a fighting chance of success.
 
explod said:
Jennie Brockie's show the last week (SBS) demonstrated very clearly the inroads we could make if parties could be sat down to talk and understand each other. Many of these terrorists are from poor circumstances with no real education and as young as 12.
Click to expand...
And therefore absolutely ripe picking for radical Muslims.

At the moment the short term chaos is out of control. When are we going to walk from this approach and help people to understand and in turn to help each other.
Click to expand...
Explod, I agree entirely with your suggestion, but if only it were that simple. Just taking our own Australian parliament as an example, the likelihood of both major sides sitting down and sensibly concluding what is best for Australia is pretty much beyond comprehension. And these are on the whole relatively sensible, educated individuals, unemcumbered by decades of hostility and hatred.

So many people have tried to get warring factions to even sit down and talk. Little progress has ever occurred.
The idea that Australia, whose own house is far from in order, might have the capacity to effect some peacemaking solution is seemingly fanciful.

Syd, good summary of the counter-productive effects of western intervention in the M.E.
I find the images of Iraqi people, little kids even, women carrying babies, trudging their way to escape over such hostile ground, with minimal sustenance, immensely distressing, but have had enough of our involvement in their fates.
 
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