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Abbott's counter terrorism measures

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I didn't observe any of the fair skinned blue eyed kids "highlighted" by syd, holding up the heads of their murderous father's beheaded victims. But I suppose another diligent Google search would turn some up.:rolleyes:
 
The powerful feeling of holding a gun. The potential to kill, maim or destroy something or some organism from a perceived safe distance.
 
sydboy007 said:
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...Ld8AWa1IKQDA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1203&bih=749

Plenty of fair skinned blue eyed kids in there.

In no way justifying what's going on, but just highlighting that this issue is fairly wide spread.

Just have to look at the ideas in some of the militias in the USA - they'd be more upset about it being about being Muslims than about the children per se.
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Man's inhumanity to man such as the images we are now seeing has occurred through many cultures throughout civilised history and that we can't change.

As for the present and future, it has no place and should simply be condemned, not compared.
 
drsmith said:
Man's inhumanity to man such as the images we are now seeing has occurred through many cultures throughout civilised history and that we can't change.

As for the present and future, it has no place and should simply be condemned, not compared.
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When comments are made in a biased way i think it's fair to highlight that it's a common issue that transcends race / religion / age.
 
Calliope said:
I didn't observe any of the fair skinned blue eyed kids "highlighted" by syd, holding up the heads of their murderous father's beheaded victims. But I suppose another diligent Google search would turn some up.:rolleyes:
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I was responding to the specific images within your post.
 
This thread is about countering terrorism in Australia and the only threat at present comes from Islam. Syd's reactive response, to dredge up pictures of fair haired children holding guns, shows his biases not mine. Anyone who ignores the ISIS activity in Iraq or tries to drag in side issues purporting to show that "it's a common issue that transcends race / religion / age" is very naive.
 
Calliope said:
This thread is about countering terrorism in Australia and the only threat at present comes from Islam. Syd's reactive response, to dredge up pictures of fair haired children holding guns, shows his biases not mine. Anyone who ignores the ISIS activity in Iraq or tries to drag in side issues purporting to show that "it's a common issue that transcends race / religion / age" is very naive.
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From my perspective it's naive to ignore the fact that kids have been carefully taught to hate and to kill for generations in many cultures. The first thing I thought of when I read about that tweeted picture (I didn't see the picture till later) was Northern Ireland.

I think it's also naive, and more importantly it's counter-productive, to forget that most of the Muslims in Australia are Australians by naturalisation (i.e. by choice) or by birth. You don't counter a threat by forcing more people into the group that's threatening you.
 
ghotib said:
More on metadata. It's not just that it's intrusive and expensive. It's that it won't work... according to the Minister for Communications.

http://www.zdnet.com/au/turnbull-admits-limitations-of-data-retention-proposal-7000032480/

If anyone is naive, surely it's a
PM who consistently starts consultations AFTER making announcements.
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Tony Abbott seems to be getting more like Kevin Rudd. Making all these "captain's decisions" that blow up in his face.

"Adults in charge" indeed. I think not.
 
ghotib said:
From my perspective it's naive to ignore the fact that kids have been carefully taught to hate and to kill for generations in many cultures. The first thing I thought of when I read about that tweeted picture (I didn't see the picture till later) was Northern Ireland.

I think it's also naive, and more importantly it's counter-productive, to forget that most of the Muslims in Australia are Australians by naturalisation (i.e. by choice) or by birth. You don't counter a threat by forcing more people into the group that's threatening you.
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Very true. hate begets hate most of the time.

The surest way to make someone into an enemy is to treat them as one without cause.
 
ghotib said:
I think it's also naive, and more importantly it's counter-productive, to forget that most of the Muslims in Australia are Australians by naturalisation (i.e. by choice) or by birth. You don't counter a threat by forcing more people into the group that's threatening you..
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You are right ghotib. Most of the 200 Australians fighting for the jihadist terrorists in Syria and Iraq are Aussie born and bred. They are are obviously representative of large Muslim communities in Sydney and elsewhere. It certainly would be very naive of us to cricicise the activities of their beloved children and grandchidren. We mustn't upset them or as you say they will join the jihadists.

We should be prepared to give their boys a rousing hero's welcome when they return. Perhaps a ticker tape parade in Lakemba.:rolleyes:

Australia has 'by far largest number' of Western fighters in Syria

An expert from Melbourne University's School of International Relations says Australians make up "by far the largest" contingent of Western recruits to Syrian armed groups.

He says that while Australians are often involved in overseas conflict, the number in Syria is higher than usual.

"There have been Australians serving as foreign fighters in a number of other conflicts, like Somalia most recently," he told The Word Today.

"But they've never been the largest group of Westerners. So Syria's a little bit unusual. You have just a handful of Canadians and Americans, maybe a hundred or so British and French citizens. But Australia has by far the largest number."
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-28/morrison-watching-australians-fighting-in-syria/5050118
 
ghotib said:
More on metadata. It's not just that it's intrusive and expensive. It's that it won't work... according to the Minister for Communications.

http://www.zdnet.com/au/turnbull-admits-limitations-of-data-retention-proposal-7000032480/

If anyone is naive, surely it's a
PM who consistently starts consultations AFTER making announcements.
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Fortunately it now sounds, if we can take Malcolm at his word, that the Government just wants to force all ISPs and phone companies to keep their call logs and IP radius logs for a minimum 2 years.

From the sounds of it, some of the new MVNOs were only keeping their call logs for a relatively short period so as to save on storage costs.

My understanding from talking to a few of the senior guys at work who deal with some of the compliance stuff is that there was already a semi legal requirement to keep the IP radius logs for internet users.

I'm still left scratching my head though as to how we went from keep a mini web browsing history to IP radius logs within a few days. The 2 are so far apart it beggars belief that it was just confusion over terminology.
 
ghotib said:
I think it's also naive, and more importantly it's counter-productive, to forget that most of the Muslims in Australia are Australians by naturalisation (i.e. by choice) or by birth.
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Are they? I don't really see what difference that makes when we have examples such as has been splashed all over the media today of such an Australian Muslim praising his 7 year old child for holding up the severed head of someone who failed to adhere to the Muslim faith.

Could you perhaps offer some examples of the moderate Muslim community in Australia making clear their disgust and revulsion at this jihadist activity? I've not seen or heard any anywhere. That does not mean it doesn't exist, and I'd be pleased if you could offer some reassurance on this point.
 
One of the most revolting and disgusting aspects of the degrading of these children is that it couldn't have happened without the connivance of Sharrouf's Anglo-Australian wife, Tara Nettleton, who smuggled their five children (two girls and three boys) to Syria to join their father.

It is understood the children left Australia about a month after their father fled the country in December, slipping illegally out of Sydney Airport on his brother’s passport.

Ms Nettleton is understood to have flown the children to Malaysia in the company of her mother, Karen Nettleton. The family stayed with a relative of Sharrouf — believed to be his sister — in Kuala Lumpur. The family all travelled on return tickets, a ruse, it would seem, designed to ease any suspicion among authorities that Ms Nettleton was planning on taking the family to Syria.

It is understood they were in Malaysia only a few weeks.

Karen Nettleton returned to Australia, but her daughter and five children journeyed on to Syria, where she met up with her husband.
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...l&utm_campaign=editorial&net_sub_uid=17300093
 
Julia said:
Could you perhaps offer some examples of the moderate Muslim community in Australia making clear their disgust and revulsion at this jihadist activity? I've not seen or heard any anywhere. That does not mean it doesn't exist, and I'd be pleased if you could offer some reassurance on this point.
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I haven't seen any either. Some muftis did appear after the Cronulla riots, but they seem very reluctant to condemn what is happening in Syria or Iraq.

Makes one wonder where their loyalties lie.

Islam a religion of peace ? Hmmm.
 
Julia said:
Could you perhaps offer some examples of the moderate Muslim community in Australia making clear their disgust and revulsion at this jihadist activity? I've not seen or heard any anywhere. That does not mean it doesn't exist, and I'd be pleased if you could offer some reassurance on this point.
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On the ABC news last night a Muslim leader was quite obvious with his hatred saying that guy "should not call himself a muslim and saying he is evil and a bad father." The guy was really angry.
 
Julia said:
Are they? I don't really see what difference that makes when we have examples such as has been splashed all over the media today of such an Australian Muslim praising his 7 year old child for holding up the severed head of someone who failed to adhere to the Muslim faith.

Could you perhaps offer some examples of the moderate Muslim community in Australia making clear their disgust and revulsion at this jihadist activity? I've not seen or heard any anywhere. That does not mean it doesn't exist, and I'd be pleased if you could offer some reassurance on this point.
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Well from this article.
Lebanese Muslim Association president Samier Dandan says he is very disturbed by the image, and has distanced the Australian Muslim community from it.

"I stand very far from that concept - this is an act of a lunatic," he said.

"Even if you are saying to me he made his son lift or carry and take a picture with a decapitated head this is something reflective of something we can all agree - this is an act of a lunatic."
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I have no idea if he represents the greater view of the Muslim community but I'm not even sure if there is a general consensus amongst Muslims, hence the division in Iraq.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-11/photo-of-boy-holding-severed-head-the-act-of-a-lunatic/5662202
 
Good to read at least some revulsion by Muslims.
Apparently this evening "Insight" will be about the radicalisation of Australian born muslims.
 
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