Where is/can Donald Trump take US (sic)?

CanOz said:

One thing for sure, if Trump gets it, the news as a form of entertainment will take on a whole new meaning...

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It will be "Keeping up with the Kadashians" for the Whitehouse.

Knobby22 said:

It will be "Keeping up with the Kadashians" for the Whitehouse.

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Can you imagine if they turned it into a reality show, Trump would love that!

I've been following the Democratic National Convention as a bit of a sticky beak. (Also had a look at the Republican one as well. )

President Obama gave a great closing speech. Well worth watching.

Apparently he rewrote it 6 times and was up till 3am polishing it up. Absolutely shows. No prompter. Seemed like no notes (amazing ??)

basilio said:

I've been following the Democratic National Convention as a bit of a sticky beak. (Also had a look at the Republican one as well. )

President Obama gave a great closing speech. Well worth watching.

Apparently he rewrote it 6 times and was up till 3am polishing it up. Absolutely shows. No prompter. Seemed like no notes (amazing ??)

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Obama is very good at telling stories and making speeches. It's as believable as speeches from a used car salesman.

basilio said:

I've been following the Democratic National Convention as a bit of a sticky beak. (Also had a look at the Republican one as well. )

President Obama gave a great closing speech. Well worth watching.

Apparently he rewrote it 6 times and was up till 3am polishing it up. Absolutely shows. No prompter. Seemed like no notes (amazing ??)

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yes Obama, so inspiritional(sp?) speeches so many empty promises and hot air actions; This man has been such a let down IMHO, and I am sure many Americans feel the same

luutzu said:

Obama is very good at telling stories and making speeches. It's as believable as speeches from a used car salesman.

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I think he has been a pretty good President as well.... In my mind certainly better than the alternatives we were offered.

Did you/anyone actually listen to the speech ?

qldfrog said:

yes Obama, so inspiritional(sp?) speeches so many empty promises and hot air actions; This man has been such a let down IMHO, and I am sure many Americans feel the same

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Well let's see if President Donald Trump can take the us and the USA forward to a grand new destiny...
Seriously I just can't fathom the negativity to President Obama and the seeming support for Donald Trump. Does my head in ...

basilio said:

I think he has been a pretty good President as well.... In my mind certainly better than the alternatives we were offered.

Did you/anyone actually listen to the speech ?

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I listened to half that speech.

What he said there doesn't align with what many independent journalists have said, or any economist and data have shown.

It's just a bunch of high praises and empty words really.

I agree with you that Obama is definitely better than Romney or McCain/Palin... but meh. He's somewhat worst in that if it's Romney, democrats and liberals can at least say it's the Republican.. but under a democratic black "socialist" Constitutional law professor from a poor/working class president? The sell out is a lot worst.

It's Obama, or policies and decisions under his admin, that paves the way for Trump's rise.

Trump didn't get to where he is politically through his ability as a leader or his kind words - he got here, and he could win this thing, because Americans are so sick and tired of the policies that keep ruining them and their future. And Obama plays a big part in that.

Under FDR, with the Great Depression, with a much more unequal and less informed public than it is now... FDR managed to create great social changes that literally transformed the country for the better.

Obama was presented with similar opportunity and instead decided to sell out and run over "his base".

90% of wealth regained or generated under his admin goes to the top 1%;

Hundreds of billions, trillions, goes directly or indirectly to corporations and banks... practically nothing goes to bail out the working Americans who lost their home - the basis of most of their wealth and assets. Whatever faults the masses might have done to get themselves into bankruptcy, the banks that were bailed out set the scene and also did the crime... but one group got bailed out and the other got kicked out of their home.

His signature healthcare was practically written by the insurance companies. Its premium are getting way too high now and some states are going broke and people just can't afford it anymore. The public option was tabled but almost immediately removed so as not to offend the powers that be.

Bush Jr.'s tax cuts to the very rich was supposed to be temporary, Obama made it permanent... or made some 90% of it permanent but brags loudly about the other minute percent he let expires as Bush had it.

The deals to create jobs and help Black America... nothing there.

Gun Control? He shed tears a few times, but nothing got done as kids and Americans faces gun violence.

The militarisation of the police got ramped up under him.

Then there's rendition, drone warfare expanding, more funding for new generation of nukes.

Anyway, it's a long list... and I don't pay that much attention. As much as half the population are struggling under Obama's failures and aren't happy with it.



We can put all those failures to him being too powerless to do anything against the Republicans and corporate power etc., but other presidents had faced similar oppositions before and they managed to show who's in charge and who's to gain something.

Really, it's a complete sell out.

Historians will look back to his administration as that turning point where Americans just completely abandon their faith in democratic governance. Smarter and well learned people said that, I think they're right.

Reagan started the movement to screw the poor and serve the rich; Obama keep that up - and at points where the public is really suffering and might not let politics as usual happen for much longer.

I see and acknowledge many of your points luutzu. I can see the comparison you are trying to make with FDR. On that comparison Obama has certainly not been successful.

I still struggle to see how much more he could have achieved in his 2 terms. I think we are too close to the time and situation to make judgements. In my view the hatred and obstructionism of the Republican Party are a key reason for the failure of President Obama to make the sort of sweeping reforms you legitimately outline.

In that context I thought Bernie was the more powerful Democratic candidate with a stronger reform package. But in no universe could I accept Donald Trump as anything more than a super dangerous demi-god .

On the last point I agree with you. There is very little time left for America to even out the soaring inequalities and keep the publics faith in democratic institutions.

basilio said:

There is very little time left for America...... keep the publics faith in democratic institutions.

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That last point is well past and gone otherwise Trump would not be around

Obama? The man's a windbag. Can the US afford another term of hollow symbolism.

Trump, might just achieve something. But it's about more than flowery speeches.

basilio said:

I see and acknowledge many of your points luutzu. I can see the comparison you are trying to make with FDR. On that comparison Obama has certainly not been successful.

I still struggle to see how much more he could have achieved in his 2 terms. I think we are too close to the time and situation to make judgements. In my view the hatred and obstructionism of the Republican Party are a key reason for the failure of President Obama to make the sort of sweeping reforms you legitimately outline.

In that context I thought Bernie was the more powerful Democratic candidate with a stronger reform package. But in no universe could I accept Donald Trump as anything more than a super dangerous demi-god .

On the last point I agree with you. There is very little time left for America to even out the soaring inequalities and keep the publics faith in democratic institutions.

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Hard to believe the inequalities and poverty rate over there. Each time I hear a new figure, it really does shock me.

The latest was from Chris Hedges saying something like 50% of Americans are living in poverty.

Before that, heard around 10 to 20 million American children goes to bed hungry; the real unemployment, or under-employment, figure is around 25% - not whatever redefinition they now got going.


You're right that the Republican did obstruct and make life difficult for Obama, more than they did at other times... An obvious one would be gun control. I think Obama was quite genuine about wanting something done about it.

But for other regressive and serving the rich policies, Obama wasn't pushing hard for the poor, and in cases seek to serve Wall St rather than main street.

Banking and financial regulation - what Bill Clinton, then W Bush did to deregulate, Obama didn't do much to reign it in - even though he inherited the crash the moment he got in, and could use public pressure to force changes. He encourage and practically insure future crashes and bailouts.

Some journalist was interviewing some Wall St honchos, asking why they're so tough on Obama when he gave them everything they wanted. Answer: so he'd give us more.

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Trump is just a horrible prick, but I don't think he has the "quality" needed to be a dangerous demagogue - on the level of a Caesar or a Napoleon or a Hitler.

So while Trump is rough and spew his racist and nasty stuff; he's too greedy and like the rich and comfortable life too much to upset the apple cart. So if he win, he'll just ask big corporations what they want him to do and say, write it for him and he'll just read it and act all presidential.

Clinton will just keep doing what her husband and W and Obama has been doing - so it will still be business as usual.

Maybe it's me watching too many movies, but a seriously dangerous demagogue will be a much cleaner, all ambitious, and extremely, honestly patriotic American who want to remake America great again without trade-marking the slogan or use flag as props.

Look out Putin:

Notice the absence of any policy discussion in this thread, despite the name of the thread?
It is all emotive bumpkin.

Knobby22 said:

Notice the absence of any policy discussion in this thread, despite the name of the thread?
It is all emotive bumpkin.

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Maybe because this is the way Trump will come in power: US will not vote for Trump for policies (which policies?) but to 'get the power back from the establishment/lobbies..."
Admirable aim IMHO, not so bright for the country, but as economies need recessions to clear the plates from time to time (I may try to join the RBA to suggest them that evidence), revolutions are needed in government; Trump could be a relatively bloodless revolution and more benign than trying to keep the statu quo and have a Clinton orchestrated main war used to "reset" the clock .
Policies? who need them in that context

Knobby22 said:

Notice the absence of any policy discussion in this thread, despite the name of the thread?
It is all emotive bumpkin.

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One thing not raised is Trumps Treason urging a foreign power to act against a US citizen.

luutzu said:

Hard to believe the inequalities and poverty rate over there. Each time I hear a new figure, it really does shock me.

The latest was from Chris Hedges saying something like 50% of Americans are living in poverty.

Before that, heard around 10 to 20 million American children goes to bed hungry; the real unemployment, or under-employment, figure is around 25% - not whatever redefinition they now got going.


You're right that the Republican did obstruct and make life difficult for Obama, more than they did at other times... An obvious one would be gun control. I think Obama was quite genuine about wanting something done about it.

But for other regressive and serving the rich policies, Obama wasn't pushing hard for the poor, and in cases seek to serve Wall St rather than main street.

Banking and financial regulation - what Bill Clinton, then W Bush did to deregulate, Obama didn't do much to reign it in - even though he inherited the crash the moment he got in, and could use public pressure to force changes. He encourage and practically insure future crashes and bailouts.

Some journalist was interviewing some Wall St honchos, asking why they're so tough on Obama when he gave them everything they wanted. Answer: so he'd give us more.

------

Trump is just a horrible prick, but I don't think he has the "quality" needed to be a dangerous demagogue - on the level of a Caesar or a Napoleon or a Hitler.

So while Trump is rough and spew his racist and nasty stuff; he's too greedy and like the rich and comfortable life too much to upset the apple cart. So if he win, he'll just ask big corporations what they want him to do and say, write it for him and he'll just read it and act all presidential.

Clinton will just keep doing what her husband and W and Obama has been doing - so it will still be business as usual.

Maybe it's me watching too many movies, but a seriously dangerous demagogue will be a much cleaner, all ambitious, and extremely, honestly patriotic American who want to remake America great again without trade-marking the slogan or use flag as props.

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A couple of points....I agree about the US inequality issues hard to see how the richest country basically has this massive poor middle class and totally disempowered work force it quite extraordinary that it exists.

Back to Obama, given the looney Republicans own the House Obama basically has very little power other than over the arm forces Trump would face the same issues.

Trump keeps getting called an outsider which is true in a political party context but he is really an insider as far as the US "system" goes.
He is totally connected at the top end and totally disconnected at the middle/bottom end of the US socioeconomic society and thinks screwing people over for money is a winners way.

The man is an extraordinary egotist / psychopath extreme fascist very much in the mold of Mussolini / Hitler both admired by the Republicans of their day.

Forgive me if I have just repeated anything already stated

Trumps not a pschopath.
He is however deeply flawed.
Cartoonish, a parody.

The hope is he could effect change but I think the good people around him will stop that.
Also, if they stick another ultra conservative in the high court that will keep the country in the dark ages.

What sort of person is Donald Trump ?

I thought this piece analysing Donald Trumps response to Khizr Khan, the bereaved father of Army Captain Humayun Khan was thought provoking.

Donald Trump’s slander of Captain Humayun Khan’s family is horrifying, even for Trump
What kind of person is Donald Trump?

Updated by Ezra Klein on July 30, 2016, 2:07 p.m. ET @ezraklein

The most emotional moment of the Democratic National Convention was the speech by Khizr Khan, the bereaved father of Army Captain Humayun Khan. With his wife Ghazala by his side, Khan recalled his son’s character, his faith, his patriotism ”” and, ultimately, his courageous death in the service of the country he loved, and the fellow soldiers he was protecting.

And, yes, the Khan family is Muslim. Under Trump’s proposed policies, they would be innately suspect; had he been president when they immigrated to America, they would’ve been barred from entering, and Humayun Khan never would have served.

"Have you ever been to Arlington Cemetery?" Khan asked Trump. "Go look at the graves of brave patriots who died defending the United States of America. You will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one."

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http://www.vox.com/2016/7/30/12332922/donald-trump-khan-muslim

U.S. media is brain-dead....