The Turnbull Government

sptrawler · 8 March 2017

bellenuit said:
I haven't mentioned wind so in relation to solar, how do you mean fail. How does solar / battery fail in a country that experiences some of the longest hours of sunshine per day, when the solar / battery installations are installed in individual households and enterprises. Failure, were it to occur, would be at the individual household / enterprise level and should have no impact on others in the immediate neighbourhood, unlike grid supplied power. The installation cost too is borne by the household and enterprise, unlike large grid based solar schemes. If you read what I said, you would see that existing non-renewable infrastructure is only decommissioned at the end of its useful life and we are only looking at a long term 50% renewable target.

Well I will put this idea forward, if people put in batteries, they are no longer recipients of subsidies.
Then when after 7 years those batteries die, due to chemical degradation, why would they replace them?
When the capital cost, hasn't been paid off, with their power savings?
Then it is back onto the grid, what a complete stuff up.
I know several farmers, that have tried every conceivable renewable power supply, but when the grid gets close they hop on.

bellenuit · 9 March 2017

sptrawler said:
Well I will put this idea forward, if people put in batteries, they are no longer recipients of subsidies.
Then when after 7 years those batteries die, due to chemical degradation, why would they replace them?
When the capital cost, hasn't been paid off, with their power savings?
Then it is back onto the grid, what a complete stuff up.
I know several farmers, that have tried every conceivable renewable power supply, but when the grid gets close they hop on.

But surely in 7 years the replacement cost of batteries will be significantly less than when initially installed if prices keep falling as they have up to now. One would also expect the technology to have advanced so that life expectancy is beyond 7 years.

Also, it wouldn't make sense to install batteries if you are currently the recipient of a FID subsidy, particularly those who got in on the 40c+ schemes. But once the FID reduces to a 7c rate or thereabouts, then would be the time to consider batteries.

One assumes that those businesses like Apple that are moving to all Solar have looked closely at the costs and though they may be willing to pay more than it currently costs, they are taking a long term view.

Tisme · 10 March 2017

This is probably Bill Shorten's fault for not doing anything for the 5 years he's been prime minister, but I'm not sure we should be encouraging foreign over local, especially in a State with a glut of electrical workers:

Junior · 10 March 2017

noco said:
Junior said
The level of US military spending is abhorrent. 3x the amount China spends and equivalent to the total spend of the next 8 biggest spending nations combined (or up to the next 13 biggest, depending which stats you use).

Imagine what could be achieved with those funds if they halved spending, for example? Universal free/affordable healthcare would be easily achievable, for example.

During the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd era 2007/2013, the Green/Labor socialist coalition reduced spending on ADF to 1.8% of GDP....Th lowest since 1938 and what did we get out of that reduction? ....ZILCH .....

No naval boats built in Australia in those 6 years.
Pink bats which burnt down 200 homes and killed 4 workers.
An influx of Muslim illegal immigrants and 1250 deaths at sea which cost $11 billion at the time and is still costing us plenty in social welfare.
Over priced Gillard school halls.
A carbon tax which cost house holders dearly.......(There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead).
An unfunded NDIS...The NDIS which was supposed to be funded with Swannies MRT which cost more to administer than what it received.
Howard's surplus of $22bullion blown away in the first few months plus an enormous debt left behind when they kicked out and their legacy continues with high spending to keep up with it all.
Now we have a stupid RET which is costly consumers the Earth......Black outs continue in SA and in Vic. it is about to get worse.
The NBN designed on the back of an envelope by Conroy and Rudd mid air with no cost benefit analysis.

And Junior it has all ended in heartache for us, our kids and our grand kids.

But I must admit people have short memories and the naive will let Labor in again to do the same things.

What did we get for it? We live in a country with one of the highest living standards on the planet. Low unemployment, high wages, low pollution and low crime rate (despite what the media would have you believe). Also relatively, very low public debt to GDP ratio.

sptrawler · 11 March 2017

Tisme said:
This is probably Bill Shorten's fault for not doing anything for the 5 years he's been prime minister, but I'm not sure we should be encouraging foreign over local, especially in a State with a glut of electrical workers:
View attachment 70284

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/06/27/glance-457-visa-holders-australia

Julia Gillard made the same claim, yet gave Gina the O.K to use 457 construction workers to build Roy Hill.

Let's look at a later analysis, from your favoured source the ABC.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-15/what-is-a-457-visa/8026280

Just shows the Labor Party have no morals, throw $hit when they are the worst perpetrators, shows how much leverage the media has to paint any picture they want.
The great corrupter of men is ego, the more they look in the mirror, the less they see the problems.

Tisme · 11 March 2017

sptrawler said:
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/06/27/glance-457-visa-holders-australia

Julia Gillard made the same claim, yet gave Gina the O.K to use 457 construction workers to build Roy Hill.

Let's look at a later analysis, from your favoured source the ABC.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-15/what-is-a-457-visa/8026280

Just shows the Labor Party have no morals, throw $hit when they are the worst perpetrators, shows how much leverage the media has to paint any picture they want.
The great corrupter of men is ego, the more they look in the mirror, the less they see the problems.

Well OK it's Gillard's fault, not Bill's for the last five years of do nothing about protecting local jobs.... mea culpa

I agree that ego is a corruption of objectivity, as is hate, jealousy, intransigence, spite, bloody mindedness, ................

sptrawler · 11 March 2017

Tisme said:
Well OK it's Gillard's fault, not Bill's for the last five years of do nothing about protecting local jobs.... mea culpa

I agree that ego is a corruption of objectivity, as is hate, jealousy, intransigence, spite, bloody mindedness, ................

Both sides of politics have used 457's, so IMO neither side can take the moral high ground, it's a national disgrace.

Smurf1976 · 11 March 2017

So far as comments concerning power, I'll leave those to the relevant thread but I'll just say this here.

You CAN have a grid based on 100% renewables just as you can have a grid based on 100% coal, 100% nuclear, 100% gas or 100% oil.

With the exception of hydro however, using only one source results in high costs when compared to the result achieved by combining multiple sources. That's because they all do some aspects of it well and some aspects of it badly.

Key point there is that it's not all the same. Hence why the concept that power stations with different characteristics were going to compete against each other hasn't worked out well at all. Engineers knew that from the start as did the tradies, operators and everyone else of a practical nature involved with it but the economic theorists are still scratching their heads wondering why it didn't work.

Keep the politicians right out of the way. Limit the economic types to things based on facts not theories that apply in a different context. Put the engineers in charge with the support of an assortment of scientists, geologists, trades and others of a practical nature and just get on with it. Problem fixed.

It would be better if the whole thing wasn't a political subject in the first place, politicians and technical things are almost always a bad mix. If it really must be political then keep that to broad concepts and costs but please keep them as far away from the technical stuff as possible because with very few exceptions they really don't grasp even the basics.

SirRumpole · 11 March 2017

Smurf1976 said:
If it really must be political then keep that to broad concepts and costs but please keep them as far away from the technical stuff as possible because with very few exceptions they really don't grasp even the basics.

So what do you think of Musk's proposal ?

Will it solve SA's power problem as he says ?

Tisme · 11 March 2017

OUCH... ex Labor premier in charge

"Bankers having a ball

It’s the social event of the year: NAB boss Andrew Thorburn is hosting a debutante ball for incoming Australian Bankers’ Association boss Anna Bligh at his bank’s Sydney executive outpost.

The other star of the March 30 event will be Steve Munchenberg, the former NAB executive that Bligh will replace at the peak banking lobby at the start of next month.

Invitations have been sent to the various peaks of the Australian financial community. Unless there are exceptional personal circumstances, count on every bank CEO — CBA’s Ian Narev, ANZ’s Shayne Elliott, Westpac’s Brian Hartzer — all being along to welcome their high-profile recruit.

Reserve Bank of Australia governor Philip Lowe, ASIC boss Greg Medcraft and APRA boss Wayne Byres are also all expected to attend.

However, our mail suggests no members of Malcolm Turnbull’s Coalition have been invited.

After the tantrum many of them threw over the appointment of former Labor Queensland premier Bligh, that’s understandable.

It is also understood that Treasurer Scott Morrison’s former director of communications and strategy Sasha Grebe — who we revealed this week has just joined listed engineering and infrastructure management services outfit Downer Group — will not be attending."

SirRumpole · 11 March 2017

Tisme said:
However, our mail suggests no members of Malcolm Turnbull’s Coalition have been invited.

What about newly appointed NAB exec Mike Baird I wonder ?

IFocus · 12 March 2017

SirRumpole said:
So what do you think of Musk's proposal ?

Will it solve SA's power problem as he says ?

Smurf will likely correct me but the main issue is engineering and bad fault discrimination.

Having lots of base load at different locations helps overcome many engineering sins.

The case prosecuted by LNP is a shocker technically.

SirRumpole · 12 March 2017

IFocus said:
Smurf will likely correct me but the main issue is engineering and bad fault discrimination.

Having lots of base load at different locations helps overcome many engineering sins.

The case prosecuted by LNP is a shocker technically.

I'm not sure about batteries long term. They will always need replacing and they use some valuable and scarce metals these days. Recycling them may be possible but expensive.

I don't think you can beat pumped hydro storage long term for reliability, simplicity and low maintenance, even if it's going to take longer to build.

By the LNP case I think you mean "clean coal" ? If so I agree it's a shocker.

Tisme · 12 March 2017

I'm guessing Malcolm show ponying personal abuse at Bill and his (Bill's) melbourne billionaire mates in question time didn't cut through as consolidated votes for the Libs in WA

noco · 12 March 2017

Tisme said:
I'm guessing Malcolm show ponying personal abuse at Bill and his (Bill's) melbourne billionaire mates in question time didn't cut through as consolidated votes for the Libs in WA

Perhaps a little off topic.

That is because it was mainly state issues in WA......High debt...high unemployment.....A decade of Barnett in office.....People just wanted a change whether for better or worse will find out sooner or later .

Tisme · 12 March 2017

noco said:
That is because it was mainly state issues in WA......High debt...high unemployment.....A decade of Barnett in office.....People just wanted a change whether for better or worse will find out sooner or later .

It didn't help that the Newspapers and Channel 7 went positive for the Labor fella.

noco · 12 March 2017

Tisme said:
It didn't help that the Newspapers and Channel 7 went positive for the Labor fella.

Yes Tisme, you are so right......Something I have been harping on for a long time....Green/Labor socialist coalition control the media (ABC and SBS) and preach their propaganda to the naïve....Channel 7 are blatantly biased towards the Labor Party.....Good to Labor and negative to the Liberals.....Don't you just love the way they go about things.

As Richo once said about the Labor Party, "WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO WIN" whether it be by fair or foul means.

SirRumpole · 12 March 2017

noco said:
Yes Tisme, you are so right......Something I have been harping on for a long time....Green/Labor socialist coalition control the media (ABC and SBS) and preach their propaganda to the naïve....Channel 7 are blatantly biased towards the Labor Party.....Good to Labor and negative to the Liberals.....Don't you just love the way they go about things.

As Richo once said about the Labor Party, "WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO WIN" whether it be by fair or foul means.

LOL.

Murdoch will always go for the Libs untill its obvious that they can't win, and it would have been obvious to blind Freddy that Libs weren't going to win in WA.

Murdoch will then back the likely winners and claim the credit.

Cunning old codger.

noco · 12 March 2017

SirRumpole said:
LOL.

Murdoch will always go for the Libs untill its obvious that they can't win, and it would have been obvious to blind Freddy that Libs weren't going to win in WA.

Murdoch will then back the likely winners and claim the credit.

Cunning old codger.

Well, you are right in that it was a foregone conclusion that Barnett had no chance of winning given what he had stacked up against himself.
Labor may have lost WA but I believe you will see a change at the next election in SA and Vic.......You must confess Labor is on the nose in those two states.

Tisme · 15 March 2017

Jebus now Nick is giving Malcolm "Trumble" a hiding.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...r/news-story/6dc90c68c6775f0b6018181f71e4044a

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IFocus

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