The future of energy generation and storage

[qldfrog]

Whatever people think , power plants are managed, by qualified operators, 24/7 and are in a relatively small amount .
Rooftop solars are by the millions, unmanaged, unmaintained, not even professionally setup ; faulty ones must remain faulty and undetected by the thousands for months if not year, and worsening with age
It is a given .
I do not want to raise that :
our nanny state option will be mandatory paying yearly check by specifically licenced inspector.
You know like pool fence inspections scam
We could add another 15k if not more BS jobs to parasite more money from that leach infected society

 

[Knobby22]

Whatever people think , power plants are managed, by qualified operators, 24/7 and are in a relatively small amount .
Rooftop solars are by the millions, unmanaged, unmaintained, not even professionally setup ; faulty ones must remain faulty and undetected by the thousands for months if not year, and worsening with age
It is a given .
I do not want to raise that :
our nanny state option will be mandatory paying yearly check by specifically licenced inspector.
You know like pool fence inspections scam
We could add another 15k if not more BS jobs to parasite more money from that leach infected society

They passed the pool inspector thing in Victoria 2 years ago. They warned us we would be fined. I got numerous warnings but just ignored them. Can't have been the only one as I didn't get fined and it's sort of gone away.

That is real nanny state stuff. Was going to fight it.

 

[qldfrog]

They passed the pool inspector thing in Victoria 2 years ago. They warned us we would be fined. I got numerous warnings but just ignored them. Can't have been the only one as I didn't get fined and it's sort of gone away.

That is real nanny state stuff. Was going to fight it.

We had it for years here.
Mandatory to sell property, even when said property had 70 acres and unfenced permanent creek, 5 dams with no kid in home
But more to subject, when i see how the average Joe maintains house stuff, it is scary to think the future of the grid depends on these rooftop systems..

 

[Knobby22]

We had it for years here.
Mandatory to sell property, even when said property had 70 acres and unfenced permanent creek, 5 dams with no kid in home
But more to subject, when i see how the average Joe maintains house stuff, it is scary to think the future of the grid depends on these rooftop systems..

It was/is to be yearly.
Electrical systems never get maintained. Rcds need to be checked.

 

[sptrawler]

I would have thought that domestic solar would not be able to feed a fault having no real capacity and would probably have the smarts to remove itself off-line for its own protection in that situation.
Probably depends on the quality of protection.

I wanted to up my system from 1.5kW to 5kW and the electrical authority requires me to install a 3kW export limiting device, which is a new thing I haven't heard of it being a requirement before.

 

[IFocus]

Thanks @Smurf1976 I could have asked @IFocus but I thought he knows SFA like me. Lol
Sorry IFocus, payback, that's all.

Last blackstart in WA from memory was from a turbine in Geraldton wasn’t Pinjar built after that also as blackstart units

 

[sptrawler]

W.A transitioning update

Soaring energy transition costs pushing state-owned Synergy to the brink

Western Australia's state-owned power provider is under such financial strain that the energy minister went to the government seeking a taxpayer-funded bailout valued at almost $1 billion.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sptrawler]

Last blackstart in WA from memory was from a turbine in Geraldton wasn’t Pinjar built after that also as blackstart units

The blackstart I was involved in was around 1992, both Muja to Perth 330kV lines tripped due to a bushfire, which caused Kwinana and Muja to trip, Kwinana could blackstart, Muja can't.

Kwinana used a 25MW gas turbine, power system used Kwinana to re establish the grid and get Muja back on, it is safer to use manned plant, when closing load onto a dead network.

I've been involved in black starts at several country towns, but with diesels and small distribution systems, it is a lot different to hitting a thermal unit with a high instantaneous loads and keeping it on.

Also if you trip it, you have to start all over again and if the unit temps aren't right, you may have to wait a long time to get going again.

I could send you a copy of the letter of commendation, I recieved from the Manager of Wester Power at the time, if you like. Lol

 

[qldfrog]

The blackstart I was involved in was around 1992, both Muja to Perth 330kV lines tripped due to a bushfire, which caused Kwinana and Muja to trip, Kwinana could blackstart, Muja can't.

Kwinana used a 25MW gas turbine, power system used Kwinana to re establish the grid and get Muja back on, it is safer to use manned plant, when closing load onto a dead network.

I've been involved in black starts at several country towns, but with diesels and small distribution systems, it is a lot different to hitting a thermal unit with a high instantaneous loads and keeping it on.

Also if you trip it, you have to start all over again and if the unit temps aren't right, you may have to wait a long time to get going again.

I could send you a copy of the letter of commendation, I recieved from the Manager of Wester Power at the time, if you like. Lol

Mr @sptrawler , you really should not mess with the experts
But knowing our fed policies are designed by these brain tanks, i feel much more confident and am already looking for finance to start an aluminium green processing plant/smelter in Victoria

 

[mullokintyre]

The blackstart I was involved in was around 1992, both Muja to Perth 330kV lines tripped due to a bushfire, which caused Kwinana and Muja to trip, Kwinana could blackstart, Muja can't.

Kwinana used a 25MW gas turbine, power system used Kwinana to re establish the grid and get Muja back on, it is safer to use manned plant, when closing load onto a dead network.

I've been involved in black starts at several country towns, but with diesels and small distribution systems, it is a lot different to hitting a thermal unit with a high instantaneous loads and keeping it on.

Also if you trip it, you have to start all over again and if the unit temps aren't right, you may have to wait a long time to get going again.

I could send you a copy of the letter of commendation, I recieved from the Manager of Wester Power at the time, if you like. Lol

At the very least you post a copy in the Useless and irrelevant thread, and then we can all admire it.
Mick

 

[sptrawler]

At the very least you post a copy in the Useless and irrelevant thread, and then we can all admire it.
Mick

Yes its worth the paper it is written on, it should have come perforated, for ease of use.Lol

 

[IFocus]

Yes its worth the paper it is written on, it should have come perforated, for ease of use.Lol

You are a amateur 1 blackstart I stopped counting after 10 or more I don’t have any letters but did get advice and directions shouted at me (likely because of the noisy power stations) something to do with the fake news I was the cause of the blackouts

 

[sptrawler]

What I would really like to know, because it is intriguing, is how a fully renewable grid would be re started if it went "black" as in completely dead and had to be started from scratch,

Obviously the distribution end is getting some technical attention.
Interesting article and talks about some of the issues I've mentioned.

Australian company lands $15 million in new funds for technology to stabilise solar-heavy grid

Australian company that specialises in pole mounted battery inverter technology that helps stabilise the grid raises significant funds to boost expansion.

reneweconomy.com.au

Essential Energy
EcoJoule believes its pole-mounted community energy storage units and voltage regulation devices are capable of helping to integrate more renewables into the grid.

“As renewables, particularly household solar, become more prevalent, our energy grids become more unstable, and it is a significant issue for distribution network service providers (DNSPs),” said Dr Mike Wishart, CEO and founder of EcoJoule Energy.

“Our community energy storage units and voltage regulators can help network operators avoid the need to invest significant capital in major upgrades to the grid.”

 

[SirRumpole]

How resilient is our grid?

Not very, experts say.

Batteries could fortify the grid as Alfred lays bare vulnerability

With hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses across southern Queensland and northern New South Wales without power, questions are inevitably turning to the strength of the electricity system.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sptrawler]

How resilient is our grid?

Not very, experts say.

Batteries could fortify the grid as Alfred lays bare vulnerability

With hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses across southern Queensland and northern New South Wales without power, questions are inevitably turning to the strength of the electricity system.

www.abc.net.au

This is what I keep alluding to, it isn't just numbers, like 6GW of coal, just put in 12GW of wind/solar and Bob's your dads brother.

If you loose say 200,000 homes plus other facilies connected, due to damaged infrastructure that a weather event, not @IFocus caused.

That's a lot of generation you have lost, if it is an area with a high solar generation penetration eg SE Queensland, that's a lot of renewables not available to fire everything back up again.
It's a complex subject.

With power stations, the easy bit is having the power, you just have to fix the distribution.

With a scattered distribution of power, you have to fix the distribution, before you have any power.
Interesting isn't it.

 

[Smurf1976]

How resilient is our grid?

Not very, experts say.

Batteries could fortify the grid as Alfred lays bare vulnerability

With hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses across southern Queensland and northern New South Wales without power, questions are inevitably turning to the strength of the electricity system.

www.abc.net.au

The real problem:

Worse still, he said Australia was no longer even doing an official stocktake of its overall position through a process known as the national energy security assessment.

"The last one was done in 2011," he said.

"Now, that's pretty piss poor. Security is much more than just electricity generation. So we've sort of faffed around.

And that's putting it very, very politely.

He said it was only natural that spreading sources of generation and storage widely across an area would make it less vulnerable to the loss of any one power plant or line.

Not necessarily.

Small scale generation is to electricity what cars are to transport. Not necessarily the best solution although sometimes it is.

Ultimately electricity is electricity and done sensibly it's a number crunching exercise not a matter of opinion.

Fundamentally though the biggest problem in all this is cost, that's what stands in the way of all sorts of things that could be done. Now suffice to say one doesn't fix a cost problem by spending more money, one fixes it by least cost approaches subject to sound engineering.

 

[mullokintyre]

On the subject of power generation and making it cleaner.

Europe greenwashing with north Africa’s renewable energy, report says

Greenpeace argues European-backed projects hamper countries’ ability to decarbonise their own economies

www.theguardian.com

European countries are extracting renewable energy from Morocco and Egypt to “greenwash” their own economies, while leaving north Africans reliant on dirty imported fuels and paying the environmental costs, a Greenpeace report says.

Both Morocco and Egypt are aiming to leverage their strategic locations south of the Mediterranean, and their solar and wind power potential, to position themselves as pivotal to Europe’s quest to diversify its energy supply.


Greenpeace’s report argues that European-backed renewable and lower-carbon projects producing energy for export are hampering the two countries’ ability to decarbonise their own economies, displacing local populations and consuming millions of litres of fresh water, in some cases in environments where it was already scarce.

Egypt plans to bring more of the downstream value adding back to its own country.
I have no doubt that China will be more than happy to accomodate Egypts financing needs, ensuring its own supply and putting another country in debt up to its eyeballs so as to effectively own it.
Mick
from Oil price.com

 

[sptrawler]

The tariffs on Australian steel and aluminium will add more pressure on the decision makers, as to the cost base analysis of converting the process to renewables.

If as the supporters of renewables say, the costs will decrease for steel and aluminium production by using renewables, the tariffs should lead to more rapid conversion from fossil fuel to renewables.


At least trump has got our unions off their butts and doing what they should have been demanding years ago. Instead of being busily riding shotgun for Governments offshoring the manufacturing.

MSN

The boss of one of the nation’s most powerful unions leapt upon the decision to demand quotas for Australian steel and aluminium in public infrastructure projects, saying it would be “sheer idiocy” to stick with a free market approach in the Trump era.

 

[SirRumpole]

We should all go to Red Rooster instead of KFC and Hungry Jacks instead of MacDonalds.

 

[Sean K]

This can't be good for the ALP leading up to the election.

Maybe it wasn't a good idea to put a dollar figure on price reductions prior to the last election.

Electricity bills will rise by as much as 9 per cent from July 1, the Australian Energy Regulator has declared, a draft ruling that will intensify pressure on struggling households and threaten the re-election prospects of the Albanese government.

The AER said increases will vary across the National Electricity Market, but the largest jump will be seen in NSW, where prices are set to rise by up to 9 per cent. Increases are smaller in Queensland and South Australia, but prices will rise by between 3 per cent and 6 per cent.

Prices in Victoria are governed by a separate regulator, which earlier ruled prices will largely remain unchanged.

Small business customers face prices increases of between 4.2 per cent and 8.2 per cent.

The energy regulator said the increases were driven by higher costs of producing electricity and network costs, which the AER said had jumped by between 2 per cant and 12 per cent.