- Joined
- 6 January 2009
- Posts
- 2,300
- Reactions
- 1,131
Looking at that graph the majority of households have an equivalised disposable income somewhere between $300 and $800, taking the middle ground of $550 that works out to a gross equivalised household gross income of $33k (that's no where near the $65k average wage).yup.. notice the near $100 difference between mean and median figures here.
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/6523.0Main+Features12007-08?OpenDocument
S5. DISTRIBUTION OF EQUIVALISED DISPOSABLE HOUSEHOLD INCOME, 2007-08
Given the above, the current Melb median house price of $540k has overshot the mark and I'd expect it to pull back. If it doesn't I'd be wondering who is buying, because those levels are out of reach for the majority of Australian households as clearly shown above.
Fujitsu, isn't that an air-conditioner? The property market could do with some cooling. But seriously, are you saying property is good value? Would you buy an investment property now?
The median household income is around $65K a year - for all Australians not just first home buyers - with an average mortgage around $350K. In other words, most buyers are indeed "struggling a bit", and will be struggling a lot more if interest rates rise.
It is pretty obvious that the government's stimulus package overshot the mark. Slashing interest rates and pump priming property via the FHB grant has further bloated an already overheated market.
Rudd got it wrong, and interest rates should rise, but elections are won and lost in the swinging seats of the mortgage belt, aka "working families" (formerly the Howard battlers). Better to see Australia's foreign debt skyrocket than suffer the political backlash of rising interest rates.
We'll see, but even media financial advisers are now warning first home buyers to stay out the market. I can't see a crash but I'd suggest we need a correction. Remember the GFC?
I agree with Beej.
We are not in a bubble as long as the following stays constant :
1) IR stay low
2) The govnuts step in with our tax payers money the first sign of trouble to prop up a market
3) Local council remain ego driven and do not allow land to be developed
4) Land banking continues
5) Taxes do not go up to pay for KRUDD deficit
6) Foreign credit to the banks is available
7) The $AU stays high
8) That the GFC has finished and recovery is on its way.
9) The average person believes property is a way to financial freedom
10) Soft lending requirements
11) China is telling the Truth about growth
Nothing much to it really.
Cheers
What percentage do you consider a correction BJ
1) As long as rates stay below 8-9%, business as usual. Above that and prices to start to come under pressure - especially the FHB segment as we saw in early 2008. However, if a shift to high interest rates is commensurate with an inflation break-out, then nominal prices will still continue to rise.
2) Not required.
3)/4) Not required as if more dwellings are built median can stay steady/fall without effecting value of existing property.
5) Unless there were massive tax increases, non issue. Bracket creep etc which is the usual method to increase taxes happens slowly and will not impact housing market materially.
6) Will always be available as we are small fish in the global capital pond, as we don't actually need that much anyway (Check APRA stats)
7) No - lower $AU provides even better value for o/s investors and returning ex-pats so pushes prices UP
8) Yes
9) This is Australia - it's the great Australian dream!
10) Yes
11) Well something is going on in China that's for sure! But yes the AU economy is linked heavily to the China story.
So in summary, the only things that could trigger a big housing correction IMO from here are:
1) Shift from low interest rate environment long term to a high one (10%+), without corresponding high inflation (highly unlikely scenario)
2) A GFC Mark 2
3) Banks significantly tighten lending criteria and tighten credit availability across the board (probably would only happen ig\f there was GFCII)
4) China collapses and takes the AU economy down into deep recession with it.
I think the above summary represents the true risks.
Any year with flat-ish or mildly falling prices is a correction in real terms and/or nominal terms.
Cheers,
Beej
So you're assuming that most FHBs starting at the median price bracket?Given the above, the current Melb median house price of $540k has overshot the mark and I'd expect it to pull back. If it doesn't I'd be wondering who is buying, because those levels are out of reach for the majority of Australian households as clearly shown above.
I made no mention of the FHB market. It was a simple observation using the graph.So you're assuming that most FHBs starting at the median price bracket?
That's not an assumption I'd be brave enough to make.
What would you do?
A local real estate agent in my town is trying to double the price of real estate overnight. Here is the story:-
Property A has one old asbestos 3 x 1 house on 1240 sqm and just sold this month for $1.8 million. Property B next door is currently for sale. Property B is strata titled and only 709 sqm with an old 3 x 1 asbestos property. Property B is listed for sale at $1.87 million, but with about half the land size of A. Propety C (opposite side of court to B) sold in October for $2.3 million, but it's size is 1330 sqm and has an old 8 x 2 asbestos house.
By my estimation, property B should have a value of between $900 and $1.1 million? Based on historical sales data.
So is it ok for real estate agents to be driving the market so high. Is his actions legal? If you think it is illegal, would you do anything about it?
Looking at that graph the majority of households have an equivalised disposable income somewhere between $300 and $800, taking the middle ground of $550 that works out to a gross equivalised household gross income of $33k (that's no where near the $65k average wage).
Take an average household of 2 adults and 2 young children we have a weighting of 2.1 which equates to an disposable household income of $1155, split that 80/20 between main earner and spouse and you have gross incomes of $60k and $13k with combined gross household income of of $73k for a dual income or $77k for a single gross income.
Using Westpac's borrowing power calculator, that dual income household with no liabilities or credit cards can borrow $305k max
Take the same scenario but using the Median equivalised disposable income of $692 they can borrow $465k max
Given the above, the current Melb median house price of $540k has overshot the mark and I'd expect it to pull back. If it doesn't I'd be wondering who is buying, because those levels are out of reach for the majority of Australian households as clearly shown above.
cheers
+1 to that mate!Given the above, the current Melb median house price of $540k has overshot the mark and I'd expect it to pull back. If it doesn't I'd be wondering who is buying, because those levels are out of reach for the majority of Australian households as clearly shown above.
Real Estate Agents and anyone else can put any price they want on anything for sale (Should be the vendor's choice however). Its a free country.
2) If not necessary, why was the FHBG necessary in the first place if the market is robust. Sounds like a ponzi, smells like a ponzi, is a ponzi.
Cheers
FHBG increases were about Treasury fears the world was going to end putting a floor under housing prices to protect the banks capitalization levels.
I'd add Krudd's change in international buying restrictions to that list, and probably stick it at the top of the list.Thank you, thank , thank you MACCA.
+1 to that mate!
Immigration helping to pay those prices? Family putting together to buy a place to live in?
Perhaps?
Interestingly we purchased an 800sq block for $225 last year. Currently there are no blocks available in that size and location. Judging on other blocks for sale in the area our block is now worth around $300k+, that's 33%+ in less than a year :screwy:If I may use some of my own circumstances.
Bought a block of land, building a house this year.
Land was $220K and 604sqm block.
Same here, I'd have to check the paperwork for the exact figure but from memory its around the same size. Not to mention there are numerous exterior design regulations that can have a similar effect.Because of covenants we have to build a minimum house of 220sqm's. (about 23 squares I think that is)
This means the price is partialy set by the size of the house.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?