Teenage Road Toll - A Terrible Tragedy

Bushman · 29 January 2009

Once again, I read today about the horrific and violent death of three teenagers on a Victorian road. We spend so much time and effort protecting our kids from health issues, crime and 'terrorists'; then we given them the keys to their doom.

I remember when I was 18 and driving in the wet for the first time - I had no idea and the next thing I knew I was up the back of a car. Luckily for me, my family, and the other road user, I was only doing 30km per hour (dumb luck) so nobody was hurt. I would never make that mistake today.

I am at a loss how we prevent this type of road trauma from happening, but without a doubt if passenger restrictions had been in place then some of these kids would be alive today. Mabye we should increase the driving licence age? Also maybe teenagers should only be allowed to driver new cars with enhanced safety features? I would advocate anything really of it meant saving some of these young lives. Most of all we, as a society, need to stop being so apathetic to the road toll and meet it with the same outrage as we do with crime and terrorists!

Poor little buggers- the roullette wheel of teenage driving has been so unkind to them and their country town community. My sincere condolences to the families of those involved. My thoughts are with you today.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24978465-661,00.html

prawn_86 · 29 January 2009

Yeh it almost seems like a 'rite of passage' in country towns. I was fortunate enough that no-one in my year level (or the ones around us) died in car accidents, but there sure were plenty of cars written off (including 2 by myself).

I dont think there is anything that can be done. Young people need cars in country communities.

GumbyLearner · 29 January 2009

prawn_86 said:
Yeh it almost seems like a 'rite of passage' in country towns. I was fortunate enough that no-one in my year level (or the ones around us) died in car accidents, but there sure were plenty of cars written off (including 2 by myself).

I dont think there is anything that can be done. Young people need cars in country communities.

They should make L and P platers drive 4 cyclinders without blowers, turbos or any other modifications. Im sure this would reduce the road toll and see less cars wrapped around trees.

investorpaul · 29 January 2009

What the government needs to do is:

1. A proper driving course - Eg in Finland all drivers are required to do a driving course that involves intentionally spinning out cars and driving at speed followed by sharp braking to show the effects of speed and stop distance (obviously this is done in controlled environments). In countries such as Finland and Germany there is less overall regulation compared to Aust but the road toll per capita is lower, possibly because they dont have such an idiot mentality over there.

2. All schools should be required to take 16,17,18 year olds through Emergency Rooms to see the effects of car crashes, furthermore they should speak to survivors of accidents who have to live with the effects of permanent disability of the burden of killing their mates.

3. The government needs to fix up black spots and bad roads eg Pacific Highway. Overseas eg Germany, their roads are of a much higher standard and this reduces the potential for accidents.

Thats all i can think of at the moment

prawn_86 · 29 January 2009

I think a defensive and offensive driving course is a good idea.

I dont think limiting people to 4 cylinders will make any difference. I have a standard ****ty 1.5l 4 cyl yet it can still go 180km/h (not that i have tried...)

Bushman · 29 January 2009

prawn_86 said:
I dont think there is anything that can be done. Young people need cars in country communities.

Yep I guess they have to get to where they have to get to, there is large distances involved and there is no public transport.

But surely there is something that can be done?
1. passenger restrictions;
2. attitude to driving (both drivers and parents);
3. the cars they drive - safe and boring rather than macho and unsafe;
4. better country roads; and
5. speed restrictions etc.

tigerboi · 29 January 2009

Rearents do not teach proper experience

I taught my 18 year old daughter from my own professional driving skills,i made her do 150 hours BEFORE the new laws came in,doubled the night hours & the first time it pelted down i made her get in & drive & she crapped herself but it taught her what to expect...its all about experience & most parents are not as good a driver as they think.

my daughter actually is doing her green p's today & i will stack her up against any 21-22 year olds.

she can reverse a car into any spot,back a box trailer into a drive way anywhere...because i made her get the experience.

best advice to parents teaching their kids,take them to a defensive driver trainer...not the usual driving instructors...tb

gfresh · 29 January 2009

Better driver training PERIOD!

All you learn in your typical license test is how to park, and check your mirrors

None of the bull**** about "it gives young drivers too much confidence" , beyond current laws, it is the only effective way to reduce the road toll further.

xscape · 29 January 2009

GumbyLearner said:
They should make L and P platers drive 4 cyclinders without blowers, turbos or any other modifications. Im sure this would reduce the road toll and see less cars wrapped around trees.

This is the case in a few states now, including victoria and NSW. High performance 6s are also off limits (350z, m3, etc).

The sad fact is that these can also be some of the safest cars, with the best braking equipment, etc. But as said above, there is no replacement for good driver training.

tigerboi · 29 January 2009

Re:seen hopeless driving instructors

gfresh said:
Better driver training PERIOD!

All you learn in your typical license test is how to park, and check your mirrors

None of the bull**** about "it gives young drivers too much confidence" , beyond current laws, it is the only effective way to reduce the road toll further.

give you an example of hopeless driving instructors:
I took my daughter to five dock rta 12 months ago to get her red p's(driving test),i noticed a lot of chinese learners & their instructors,young guy comes in on his L's & got heaps of room to get it straight for a 20m reverse straight back between the white lines.

do you think he could put it between the white lines in less than 10 minutes?i kid you not!if i hadn't have stepped in he would still be there...THAT IS A HORRIBLE INDICTMENT ON THE INSTRUCTOR.(remember hes going for his driving test!)

I thought i could teach this kid in one go or do nothing & he will not learn properly & cause accidents,so i pulls out my MC class licence & goes over to the instuctor in the car,i says hey mate how long you been teaching driving? 20 years he says.i said yeah sure

I hand him my licence & tell him im a professional driver,gives us a go beside the kid ill show you how to teach kids to reverse park,so i gets in & says right go out & come in again...

we come in & i show him how to use his side mirrors to line up the lines & to pick out features such as guters,fences etc to use as your guide when reversing...i gets out & show him to use the mirrors to get equal space either side of the car before backing it in...he got it first go...

i stayed back after my daughter got hers & waited for the chinese kid to finish...he nailed it...

all about experience so get as much as you can...tb

glenn_r · 29 January 2009

xscape said:
This is the case in a few states now, including victoria and NSW. High performance 6s are also off limits (350z, m3, etc).

The sad fact is that these can also be some of the safest cars, with the best braking equipment, etc. But as said above, there is no replacement for good driver training.

I have a 18YO Son so I'm fairly close to this issue, it's good to see now in Vic they issue a red P plate when you first get your probationary licence which also includes a computer based hazards test prior to the road test, red P holders can only have 1 passenger aged between 21 and 16 for the first year and if they have a road infringement free first year they then are promoted to a green P plate which they hold for 3 years (4 years total probation).

There is also a limit on engine size and power, which also bans any power modifications being made to the standard engine, time will tell if these measures work which in conjunction with the hoon laws, speed camera's etc makes Vic probably the most pro active state re teen car fatalities, but there is still that "Sh it For Brains" minority for which nothing will stop their stupidity.

Ageo · 29 January 2009

The problem with banning things is like anything, it affects people who have done nothing wrong and they still get hit with the crap.

As others have mentioned Advanced driver training should be passed before people get their license.

prawn_86 · 29 January 2009

I personally think the whole road toll thing is over-hyped.

Much more people go missing each year or die from suicide, or alcohol or smoking yet its not as 'graphic' so it doesnt get as much media attention

YELNATS · 29 January 2009

prawn_86 said:
I personally think the whole road toll thing is over-hyped.

Heck, Prawn, is it really possible to over-hype this issue? This is about kids who have so much promise and so much life in them dying by the hundreds.

I have an 18 year old daughter who has had 2 accidents in her first year of driving, including writing-off the family's Mazda 3. Thankfully no-one was injured in these, but they certainly could have been. My son, now with 5 years driving experience also wrote-off a vehicle in his first 3 weeks of driving.

I still have shivers each time my daughter drives, especially at night and in the wet.

Many or most of their friends also have had these experiences.

I just seems that kids of this age are just not mature enough to handle cars which in their care become killing machines.

I can't see any solution except lifting the driving age to 21 years.

Sorry to differ on this one.

regards YN.

prawn_86 · 29 January 2009

I have lost one friend in a car crash and one of my best mates to suicide.

I dont have the exact figures in front of me, but youth suicide is up in the thousands per year, whereas the total road was approx 400 people (not just youths).

My friends car crash made the news 2 days in a row. My best mates suicide...nothing. Both in an affluent suburb in Adelaide, in fact only about 800m from each other. I think more time should be spent trying to figure out why young people are killing themselves intentionally, rather than accidentally on our roads.

Thats not to say road toll awareness is a bad thing, i just think it gets a lot more media coverage because of the 'shock factor' of mangled car wrecks

Aussiejeff · 29 January 2009

Ageo said:
The problem with banning things is like anything, it affects people who have done nothing wrong and they still get hit with the crap.

As others have mentioned Advanced driver training should be passed before people get their license.

A lot of the worst miscreants either don't have licenses or are under "suspension" anyway. Doesn't stop 'em.

A lot of the worst miscreants don't own the car they are driving!

It's a new past-time. Maybe they could call it "Steal 'n squeal"...

Seem to be a lot of new "L" platers getting done for speeding and un-supervised driving. I think you might find it has something to do with the new road laws introduced around July last year requiring "L" platers to not only have 120 hours of "experience" but also have to hold those "L" plates for 2 years.

That is a hell of a long time to be on "L"'s. After about 6 months of the new rules being in place, IMO maybe a few of these new "L" platers are getting frustrated at the prospect of being restricted and having to find supervision for another 18 months! They are bucking "the system" & going for a fang anyway, regardless of "the law". Teenagers rebelling? Shock, horror! Well I NEVER! Glad I was never a bit of a rebel. I would NEVER have exceeded speed limits by what are these days considered "crazy" amounts *nudge, nudge, *.

When I got my "L"s in 1968 they were for 3 months! Then the single red "P" plate was for only 12 months. Younguns in VIC these days have a whole further 2 years on "P" plates. So, I can imagine how "regimented" they might feel with a total of 4 years of restrictions ahead of them.

I think it is a lot to expect - ESPECIALLY of teenagers - to behave themselves 100% while "learning" to drive over 4 long years before getting a "full" licence, isn't it? Boyz will be boyz & girlz will be girlz, after all? Where are all the government subsidised and supervised off-road centres where young drivers can learn full car control?

Given that I feel the licensing system might now be too frustrating and drawn over too long a period, I also would not be at all surprised if we sadly see a lot more of these "crazy L & P plater" teen fatalities and prangs in the coming months/years.

On the subject of licencing systems, I saw on a recent episode of Top Gear that apparently in Finland children are officially taught from their very early teens (I think in schools) how to slide and recover vehicles. It is a compulsory part of their licensing system that ALL children go through this. They even go to the extreme of having country-wide motorkhana type events (on a weekly basis it seems) where young and old alike can safely race around dedicated, supervised short circuits in el-cheapo, low power jalopies - lots of safe fun while learning expert car control. As I remember, James May related they have a very low road toll and an extraordinary percentage per head of population of World Rally Champions.

Food for thought maybe?

aj

joeyr46 · 29 January 2009

Aussiejeff said:
A lot of the worst miscreants either don't have licenses or are under "suspension" anyway. Doesn't stop 'em.

A lot of the worst miscreants don't own the car they are driving!

It's a new past-time. Maybe they could call it "Steal 'n squeal"...

Seem to be a lot of new "L" platers getting done for speeding and un-supervised driving. I think you might find it has something to do with the new road laws introduced around July last year requiring "L" platers to not only have 120 hours of "experience" but also have to hold those "L" plates for 2 years.

That is a hell of a long time to be on "L"'s. After about 6 months of the new rules being in place, IMO maybe a few of these new "L" platers are getting frustrated at the prospect of being restricted and having to find supervision for another 18 months! They are bucking "the system" & going for a fang anyway, regardless of "the law". Teenagers rebelling? Shock, horror! Well I NEVER! Glad I was never a bit of a rebel. I would NEVER have exceeded speed limits by what are these days considered "crazy" amounts *nudge, nudge, *.

When I got my "L"s in 1968 they were for 3 months! Then the single red "P" plate was for only 12 months. Younguns in VIC these days have a whole further 2 years on "P" plates. So, I can imagine how "regimented" they might feel with a total of 4 years of restrictions ahead of them.

I think it is a lot to expect - ESPECIALLY of teenagers - to behave themselves 100% while "learning" to drive over 4 long years before getting a "full" licence, isn't it? Boyz will be boyz & girlz will be girlz, after all? Where are all the government subsidised and supervised off-road centres where young drivers can learn full car control?

Given that I feel the licensing system might now be too frustrating and drawn over too long a period, I also would not be at all surprised if we sadly see a lot more of these "crazy L & P plater" teen fatalities and prangs in the coming months/years.

On the subject of licencing systems, I saw on a recent episode of Top Gear that apparently in Finland children are officially taught from their very early teens (I think in schools) how to slide and recover vehicles. It is a compulsory part of their licensing system that ALL children go through this. They even go to the extreme of having country-wide motorkhana type events (on a weekly basis it seems) where young and old alike can safely race around dedicated, supervised short circuits in el-cheapo, low power jalopies - lots of safe fun while learning expert car control. As I remember, James May related they have a very low road toll and an extraordinary percentage per head of population of World Rally Champions.

Food for thought maybe?

aj

Long way past food for thought I learnt control on a motorbike in all conditions come off a few times while learning were the point of no return was
Cars are no different we need to learn in preferably a safe environment what a vehicles limit and our limitations are . We had no speed limits when I was growing up (outside towns and villages) even raced the police on the open roads Mainly travelled at speeds that would be instant loss of licence these days accidents were really rare (still got headlines) Traffic was about the same as we have here today Tests were simple but if you couldn't drive you didn't pass. Today they give you your licence if you do the right thing by the rules nothing to do with whether you can control the vehicle Failed my son twice because he was too confident even though they said he rode really well (I'd made sure he learnt to control the vehicle properly ) not just pass the test. We should lower age limit teach them to drive and be in control of car (or Bike) learn to ride a motorbike first as it gives you awareness of everything around you and it is just an extension of a pushbike and most of us know how to balance and ride one of them. After 6 months on motorbike they,ll fly thru their car licence and have an awareness of all conditions and road surfaces and keep an eye on all the other idiots out there

joeyr46 · 29 January 2009

Oh and stop complaining about poor roads if we can drive well they shouldn't be a problem Most of the bad accidents seem to happen on good roads that are for the most part straight and we are bored at the ridiculous slow speed we are asked to do especially when you consider the improvements to vehicles
Speed kills and speed limits are all political hype to gain votes because it sounds correct but statistics don't agree
Years ago thay adjusted the speed limit up to 110 for a section of the highway between Brisbane and the Sunshine coast (not sure for how long now but the accident rate went down. At the end of the period they they returned it to a 100 until there was an outcry and they had to put it back to 110.
I did some research years ago and found accidents tended to increase in good times and become lower in recession or depressions. so once again our overconfidence in our ability seems to have something to do with it. just like buying at the top

glenn_r · 29 January 2009

prawn_86 said:
I have lost one friend in a car crash and one of my best mates to suicide.

I dont have the exact figures in front of me, but youth suicide is up in the thousands per year, whereas the total road was approx 400 people (not just youths).

My friends car crash made the news 2 days in a row. My best mates suicide...nothing. Both in an affluent suburb in Adelaide, in fact only about 800m from each other. I think more time should be spent trying to figure out why young people are killing themselves intentionally, rather than accidentally on our roads.

Thats not to say road toll awareness is a bad thing, i just think it gets a lot more media coverage because of the 'shock factor' of mangled car wrecks

The fatalities are bad enough but I think for every fatal injury there are 7 seriously injured victims requiring months or years of rehab.

Sadly I also know families who have lost a loved one through suicide and I think the media intentionally don't report these tragic events, maybe to stop copy cats.

tigerboi · 30 January 2009

Re:teenagers need real driving training

YELNATS said:
I can't see any solution except lifting the driving age to 21 years.
regards YN.

That is a bad idea...proper training from REAL experienced drivers like myself is how its done,my daughter got her green p's yesterday...she aint written off any of ours or her cars...because shes been trained properly by a professional.made to do tasks she didnt like until she got it right,shes 18 & would put it over any 21 year old driver.

my daughter is lucky she has my heavy vehicle experience to teach her how to really drive,ive taken her in the truck & shes seen numnut drivers trying to kill themselves.

forget raising the age to 21 as you will get even less experienced drivers.

when She got her L's...first drive i threw her straight onto the m4 & got her the real experience she needed,now shes a top little driver BECAUSE she was taught properly by a real professional driver not some numnut the rta says is a driving instructor.

finland has the right idea...start them young & teach them real good experience...funny thing is my eldest girl 25 year old her mum is from finland & shes a great young driver as well...

training = experience...easy to tell the ones who have fiddled the log books for their hours...they cant perform simple tasks like 3 point turn,reverse park & parrallel parks...these are the first 3 tasks you teach the learner,then roundabouts,turns & lane changing will come easy.

with your kids on their L's people find out the hardest for the kid to do(normally parrallel park)then go do it until he/she gets it first go 8 from 10.
a trick i did was i got out of the car & let her do it herself as kids get nervous & narky...try it & you will see the learner gets the hang of itreal quick...

you would be surprised how many drivers cannot parrallel park,i dont mean learners & p platers either...

If your teaching someone to drive then practice til they get it right,find yourself an empty car park or industrial area & just keep doing it til they get it 100%...

there is a simple trick to teach parallel parking BETWEEN 2 CARS OF COURSE,some instructors are letting learners do it without a car behind them which you now see drivers attempts at parallel park causing many accidents.

yelnats who taught your kids to drive?just one day of 8 hours with me will turn them into good safe drivers...tb

Teenage Road Toll - A Terrible Tragedy

Bushman

prawn_86

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GumbyLearner

investorpaul

prawn_86

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Bushman

tigerboi

gfresh

xscape

tigerboi

glenn_r

Ageo

prawn_86

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YELNATS

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prawn_86

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Aussiejeff

joeyr46

joeyr46

glenn_r

tigerboi

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