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Retirement Village deferred management fees

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SirRumpole said:
I don't think writing to Aveo would be any help.

People who do this sort of thing should be de-registered from operation in this country, their property confiscated and turned over to administrators who will do the job properly.
Click to expand...

Maybe... maybe not.

Aveo lives and breathes on people believing their BS. If it becomes clear that many , many people no longer believe their pitch, distrust and despise their operations and will tell all their friends and family to have nothing to do with Aveo... the story might change.

Also I suggest the problem goes beyond one company. I understand that in the for-profit sector the modus operandi is much the same.
 
basilio said:
Also I suggest the problem goes beyond one company. I understand that in the for-profit sector the modus operandi is much the same.
Click to expand...

I only have experience with one company, Allity. A friend of mine is in one of their aged care centres and seems happy. I don't think he had to buy anything up-front, they just take 80% of his pension for the room, meals, clothes washing, medical attention etc and single room.
 
SirRumpole said:
I only have experience with one company, Allity. A friend of mine is in one of their aged care centres and seems happy. I don't think he had to buy anything up-front, they just take 80% of his pension for the room, meals, clothes washing, medical attention etc and single room.
Click to expand...

Different model Sir Rumpole. This is an aged care centre not a retirement village.

Mind you your friend is in a sense fortunate that he has been able to get into an aged care centre without a substantial up front fee. That model at the moment has a detailed financial analysis of new clients and the entry fee is considerable. Think anything from $350k to $600k.

In fact Aveo is attempting to change it's retirement villages into Aged care centres. It means they can charge for a whole new set of services and turn freehold units into leaseholds.

https://www.allity.com.au/feesandcharges
 
Saw another story about how Aveo managed it's cash cows (yes I have given up any semblance of respect for Aveo..)
The comments after the story bear checking out as well.
If there is a proper investigation of the practices of this organisation, and if fact the wider industry, there should be thousands of submissions.

Aveo retirement village keeps charging daughter for father’s meals nine months after his death
Janelle Miles, The Courier-Mail
March 6, 2016 1:00am
BROUGHTON Cottam has been dead for almost a year but the Brisbane retirement village where he lived for 17 years until recently continued to bill his daughter for his meals.

Desley Cottam, 72, said the $358 monthly catering fee kept coming until January – nine months after her father died.

Mr Cottam, known as Snow, had just turned 100 when he died on April 13 last year.

He had lived at an Aveo retirement village in Explorer Drive, Albany Creek, since 1998, leasing an independent living unit until 2010, when he moved into an assisted living apartment.

His distraught daughter is keen to warn others about retirement village fees after her dealings with Aveo, which operates runs 75 retirement villages in Queensland, NSW, Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania.

His daughter has refused to sign the lease to her father’s apartment back to Aveo until she can obtain an adequate explanation for “unconscionable” exit fees.

She believes the retirement village operator may have made a “mathematical error”.

Although Aveo has told her the lease is worth $195,000, she has been offered a settlement of only $18,000, minus billed catering and other charges.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...h/news-story/90e5675e8384c49419c066a4d67b7446

Some comments

Lachlan Mar 6, 2016

I was an RN in various Aged Care facilities for many years. I worked in everything from government owned facilities to outrageously expensive private facilities. I worked at one place which the minimum cost per month was $6500 for a shared room. They also offered the dubious "extra services" on top of the standard fee, where the resident was charged an extra $700 per month for extras. The thing was, there weren't enough staff to carry out the "extra" services. It doesn't surprise me one bit this has happened! Privately operated Aged Care facilities are there for one thing, to make as much profit as possible.

@Tracy @Lachlan Not forgetting the extremely contrived Accreditation inspections. In the weeks leading up to Accreditation, management run around making sure everything is just right. Things which have been non serviceable for months are repaired or replaced. Staff to resident ratios are dramatically increased, but only for the days the inspectors are present. I worked at one place which employed a second Nursing Supervisor in the months leading up to Accreditation. When the inspection was over, he was sacked! Staff are coached in what to say to the inspectors if asked. Residents who normally are bed ridden are dragged out of bed and propped up in a chair, with hair and make up done. I remember one woman who couldn't move was forced out of bed, put in a chair and had a magazine placed in front of her, despite the fact she had no concept of reality and was unable to move her arms. It's all so set up and deceptive.

Lachlan Mar 7, 2016

@FN Cate @Tracy @Lachlan The last facility I worked only permitted RN's to administer medication and the RN's had to fight to have that policy implemented. Otherwise, there would have not been much for us to do. EN's and Cert III Carers were not permitted to touch medications. Even EN's who were certified to give medication, were not permitted to administer them, although they did carry out wound care and wound management. There was one RN per floor (six floors), 2 EN's and 4 Cert III staff on each floor. Each floor had 28 residents. I worked in a facility which preferred RN's on 457 Visas. There were only four of us out of 12 RN's who were Australian. I became frustrated because so many of the staff couldn't speak or understand English fluently and in nursing, understanding each other is paramount.

Samantha Mar 7, 2016

@Lachlan @Tracy We used to do a 400km round trip every week to visit a family member. On one occasion my husband asked how were the meals that week. The reply, "Beautiful, the accreditation people are here". Says it all.



 
basilio said:
Saw another story about how Aveo managed it's cash cows (yes I have given up any semblance of respect for Aveo..)
The comments after the story bear checking out as well.
If there is a proper investigation of the practices of this organisation, and if fact the wider industry, there should be thousands of submissions.

Aveo retirement village keeps charging daughter for father’s meals nine months after his death
Janelle Miles, The Courier-Mail
March 6, 2016 1:00am
BROUGHTON Cottam has been dead for almost a year but the Brisbane retirement village where he lived for 17 years until recently continued to bill his daughter for his meals.

Desley Cottam, 72, said the $358 monthly catering fee kept coming until January – nine months after her father died.

Mr Cottam, known as Snow, had just turned 100 when he died on April 13 last year.

He had lived at an Aveo retirement village in Explorer Drive, Albany Creek, since 1998, leasing an independent living unit until 2010, when he moved into an assisted living apartment.

His distraught daughter is keen to warn others about retirement village fees after her dealings with Aveo, which operates runs 75 retirement villages in Queensland, NSW, Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania.

His daughter has refused to sign the lease to her father’s apartment back to Aveo until she can obtain an adequate explanation for “unconscionable” exit fees.

She believes the retirement village operator may have made a “mathematical error”.

Although Aveo has told her the lease is worth $195,000, she has been offered a settlement of only $18,000, minus billed catering and other charges.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...h/news-story/90e5675e8384c49419c066a4d67b7446

Some comments

Lachlan Mar 6, 2016

I was an RN in various Aged Care facilities for many years. I worked in everything from government owned facilities to outrageously expensive private facilities. I worked at one place which the minimum cost per month was $6500 for a shared room. They also offered the dubious "extra services" on top of the standard fee, where the resident was charged an extra $700 per month for extras. The thing was, there weren't enough staff to carry out the "extra" services. It doesn't surprise me one bit this has happened! Privately operated Aged Care facilities are there for one thing, to make as much profit as possible.

@Tracy @Lachlan Not forgetting the extremely contrived Accreditation inspections. In the weeks leading up to Accreditation, management run around making sure everything is just right. Things which have been non serviceable for months are repaired or replaced. Staff to resident ratios are dramatically increased, but only for the days the inspectors are present. I worked at one place which employed a second Nursing Supervisor in the months leading up to Accreditation. When the inspection was over, he was sacked! Staff are coached in what to say to the inspectors if asked. Residents who normally are bed ridden are dragged out of bed and propped up in a chair, with hair and make up done. I remember one woman who couldn't move was forced out of bed, put in a chair and had a magazine placed in front of her, despite the fact she had no concept of reality and was unable to move her arms. It's all so set up and deceptive.

Lachlan Mar 7, 2016

@FN Cate @Tracy @Lachlan The last facility I worked only permitted RN's to administer medication and the RN's had to fight to have that policy implemented. Otherwise, there would have not been much for us to do. EN's and Cert III Carers were not permitted to touch medications. Even EN's who were certified to give medication, were not permitted to administer them, although they did carry out wound care and wound management. There was one RN per floor (six floors), 2 EN's and 4 Cert III staff on each floor. Each floor had 28 residents. I worked in a facility which preferred RN's on 457 Visas. There were only four of us out of 12 RN's who were Australian. I became frustrated because so many of the staff couldn't speak or understand English fluently and in nursing, understanding each other is paramount.

Samantha Mar 7, 2016

@Lachlan @Tracy We used to do a 400km round trip every week to visit a family member. On one occasion my husband asked how were the meals that week. The reply, "Beautiful, the accreditation people are here". Says it all.
Click to expand...
https://www.aveo.com.au/investor-centre/corporate-governance/board-of-directors/
 
Adele Ferguson is keeping up the pressure on Aveo with more stories on how the "cash cows" are milked. Interesting to note how may new stories are appear to be surfacing and the sustained questioning of the alleged client satisfaction surveys.

Aveo retirement village investigation has put the sector under a spotlight
1471920672777.jpg

11 reading now
When Benjamin Disraeli famously outlined his damning assessment that there are "lies, damned lies and statistics" he could have replaced the word statistics with retirement village surveys.

Embattled Aveo retirement village giant and peak lobby group the Retirement Living Council have spent the past few days talking up the popularity of retirement villages and talking down allegations raised in a joint media investigation by Fairfax Media and ABC's Four Corners.

That investigation exposed a litany of questionable business practices at Aveo including punitive fees, churning of residents, misleading marketing promises and sub-standard safety and emergency services.

Since the stories broke, I have received hundreds of emails and phone calls from long-suffering residents who have been suffering in silence due to poor regulation.

Related Articles
The spotlight is now firmly on a sector that is clearly crying out for reform. Not that the company or the industry is enjoying the attention. Both seem to hope the issue will just go away.

Since June 2, almost a month before the stories were published, Aveo was repeatedly asked to participate in an interview, but declined.

Instead the company has chosen to pay for full page ads in newspapers castigating the stories as one-sided.

It has also released a statement to the ASX containing answers to questions sent to them as part of the investigation. Those answers were provided to the investigation five days after a deadline the company's spokesman had committed to meet.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/bus...sector-under-a-spotlight-20170630-gx2490.html
 
Not all aged care and retirement communities are out to bleed their residents dry.

A family member lived in 2 IRT properties on the NSW south coast and in both cases received full refund of their leasehold payments. Firstly for a self contained 2Br apartment 500m from the beach and secondly a private room in a higher care facility. In both cases the outlay was less than $250K.
Definitely pays to do your homework and not get sucked in by the smarmy ads.

The commercial exploitation revealed is a disgrace, vote with your feet
 
So does anyone else watch the "Freedom" ads and think to themselves ............
 
One might wonder why Aveo has declined to answer the myriad questions concerning residents left to die in 40 Degree courtyards, left helpless for days after falling in their homes ect, ectera ectera.

Well it's simple. It comes out a deep respect for the privacy of their cash cows (soory residents) and compliance with their legal obligations.

Just reminds of a defendent accused of killing his mother and father and throwing himself on the mercy of the court because he was an orphan.

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20170630/pdf/43kbk18m3vtw7t.pdf
 
basilio said:
One might wonder why Aveo has declined to answer the myriad questions concerning residents left to die in 40 Degree courtyards, left helpless for days after falling in their homes ect, ectera ectera.

Well it's simple. It comes out a deep respect for the privacy of their cash cows (soory residents) and compliance with their legal obligations.

Just reminds of a defendent accused of killing his mother and father and throwing himself on the mercy of the court because he was an orphan.

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20170630/pdf/43kbk18m3vtw7t.pdf
Click to expand...

et cet era
 
ACCC is opening an investigation into Aveo. ASIC and the State regulators will also be on board. Let's see how serious they are.


ACCC to investigate Aveo over contract terms and conduct

The Australian Competition & Consumer Commission (ACCC) will launch an investigation into retirement village giant Aveo, which is caught up in a national scandal.

ACCC chairman Rod Sims told The Australian Financial Review the ACCC would investigate some of the "more serious matters being raised" in relation to Aveo. "We have taken a serious note across the agency."

He said there also needed to be a wider regulatory review of the sector and the ACCC would stand ready to participate. He said ASIC would also need to get involved, as well as state regulators.

A first step in the ACCC investigation would be to talk to state regulators including Consumer Affairs Victoria and Fair Trading in NSW, given retirement village operators are regulated by the states.


Read more: http://www.afr.com/business/health/...rms-and-conduct-20170702-gx2wze#ixzz4llAmdykn
Follow us: @FinancialReview on Twitter | financialreview on Facebook
 
It will interesting to see all the political parties react to the expose on price gouging and huge exit fees in the Retirement village industry. The whole business reminds me of the scandals surrounding the Timeshare industry with their aggressive marketing and ongoing fees.

The big difference with the Retirement Villages is that the sums are far bigger and people involved generally older and more vulnerable. I think (hope) there is a big opportunity for concerned village residents to put pressure on all MPs to get serious about the situation.

Time for retirement living to meet the fairness test
  • Gerard Brody
Retirement is often called the "golden years". If you read the marketing of the large companies that operate retirement villages you'd be led to believe that it's all lawn bowls, cocktails and luxury. The reality can be very different.

As one retiree recently told us: "When I moved in, the reason for that place's existence was residents. Now it's reason for existence is shareholders and there is a huge amount of distrust."

Exploitation at Aveo unacceptable: Minister
Following revelations retirement village operator Aveo ripped off older Australians, the Aged Care minister says all governments need to do more to prevent this happening again.

In Australia, retirement housing is a mess. If you're considering the lifestyle promised by the operators of retirement housing, what you'll soon encounter is needlessly complex contracts and legal arrangements that even lawyers have trouble understanding.

Your unit might be a strata title, licence arrangement, or a lease and loan. You might even be renting the land while owning the mobile home on top of it. The intricate contracts are impenetrable for most people and are cruelly one-sided. When you read them, it's hard to escape the conclusion that these contracts are written deliberately to bamboozle.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/bus...o-meet-the-fairness-test-20170704-gx45xs.html
 
Freedom Aged Care. A better way to fleece the sheep.


Aveo faces outcry over push into Freedom Aged Care
Embattled retirement village giant Aveo has been forced to effectively refund residents at two villages after an outcry about its decision to transition the villages to its new, expensive Freedom Aged Care program.

At the same time, Aveo is stinging residents at some other villages with two sets of exit fees, which can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, if they switch to the new Freedom program, a program offering care similar to that being offered in a nursing home.

Fairfax Media can also reveal that Aveo is using a company that is owned and operated by a current director of its wholly-owned Freedom Aged Care subsidiary to conduct reviews and provide recommendations on the village. It is telling residents the company is independent.

A letter sent to Concierge Bayside residents in Melbourne, says "to assist with the review, Aveo have engaged the services of Aspire Aged Care, an independent advisory firm, to review the village environment and to meet with residents to discuss their needs."

Aveo has been under fire for the past month after a joint Fairfax Media-Four Corners investigation uncovered a litany of questionable business practices at the retirement village operator including churning of residents, fee gouging and misleading marketing promises, such as safety and emergency services, made to some of the country's most vulnerable people.

The investigation has also uncovered that Aveo's two new programs The Aveo Way and Freedom Aged Care squeeze even more money out of residents.

Residents at Freedom can pay more than $900 a week in maintenance fees and care fees, then pay additional fees for services such as changing a light bulb, $15.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/bus...h-into-freedom-aged-care-20170721-gxg6ur.html
 
basilio said:
Freedom Aged Care. A better way to fleece the sheep.


Aveo faces outcry over push into Freedom Aged Care
Embattled retirement village giant Aveo has been forced to effectively refund residents at two villages after an outcry about its decision to transition the villages to its new, expensive Freedom Aged Care program.

At the same time, Aveo is stinging residents at some other villages with two sets of exit fees, which can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, if they switch to the new Freedom program, a program offering care similar to that being offered in a nursing home.

Fairfax Media can also reveal that Aveo is using a company that is owned and operated by a current director of its wholly-owned Freedom Aged Care subsidiary to conduct reviews and provide recommendations on the village. It is telling residents the company is independent.

A letter sent to Concierge Bayside residents in Melbourne, says "to assist with the review, Aveo have engaged the services of Aspire Aged Care, an independent advisory firm, to review the village environment and to meet with residents to discuss their needs."

Aveo has been under fire for the past month after a joint Fairfax Media-Four Corners investigation uncovered a litany of questionable business practices at the retirement village operator including churning of residents, fee gouging and misleading marketing promises, such as safety and emergency services, made to some of the country's most vulnerable people.

The investigation has also uncovered that Aveo's two new programs The Aveo Way and Freedom Aged Care squeeze even more money out of residents.

Residents at Freedom can pay more than $900 a week in maintenance fees and care fees, then pay additional fees for services such as changing a light bulb, $15.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/bus...h-into-freedom-aged-care-20170721-gxg6ur.html
Click to expand...

dam. It's like season two of Better Call Saul.
 
I would avoid investing in the whole sector not just Aveo. Expect the full wrath of government to come down on the sector within the next few years.
 
guess which provider of residential / retirement communities, facilites had an imperfect business model?
Screenshot_20250709_105013_CommSec~2.jpg


08 July 2025
Immediate release to the ASX
Key Summary
 Justice Woodward ruled that the Residential Tenancies Act 1997 (Vic) (Act) does not prohibit a DMF but found the DMF clause in Lifestyle Communities contracts was void due to the lack of disclosure of a precise amount.

 Lifestyle Communities will amend its new homeowner contracts in the interim to comply with the disclosure as articulated by Justice Woodward.
 

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