Logique
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Malthusianism come and goes, but seems does seem to travel in lockstep with the AGW crowd and greens generally.David Beckham Reignites Hypocrisy of “Overpopulation” Alarmists
Ultra-rich elitists lecture middle class on having less children, reducing living standards while living in opulence and procreating with gusto
Paul Joseph Watson Tuesday, July 19, 2011
....to expose the rampant hypocrisy of those telling us to lower our living standards, reduce CO2 emissions and have less kids while they themselves live in luxury, fly around in private jets, and procreate with little concern for “overpopulation”....
....The overpopulation myth is a tool of control freaks, a discredited and arcane reinvention of the eugenics dogma, designed to oppress, micro-manage and enslave the population by imperiling them to stunt their freedom, prosperity and happiness, while its proponents are stinking hypocrites who would do the planet a huge favor by following their own advice and disappearing off the face of the earth for good.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/alarmism-a-danger-to-democracy-vaclav-klaus/story-fn59niix-1226098608900Mr Klaus, who entered public life in 1989 when he and colleagues volunteered their services to the leaders of Czechoslovakia's Velvet Revolution against the communist regime imposed in the aftermath of World War II, warns that climate change is being used as a political weapon by the Left. "I do not believe in the innocence of global warming alarmists," he said. "They do not care about the environment, they just misuse it in their crusade, which aims at limiting our freedom and prosperity.
"I don't want to make cheap comparisons of their ideology with communism, but I do see many similarities . . . It is a new variant for the activist political Left, and I spent all my life fighting such a political thinking because I lived in such a political system."
Judging from the rate of change we have seen in the last few decades I don't think most of the older members of this forum will see obvious large scale changes in the climate and will likely go to their graves still convinced it is a load of piffle. Though I think later in my life there will some major and obvious changes and my children and their children will live in a significantly different world.
I would let you know, but my computer with a calculator was destroyed by the Y2K bug..
Maybe my book on nostradamus will have something. Now it must be floating around in my room somewhere, because I don't allow gravity in here because it sucks down the bacteria which I will NEVER immunise myself against.
Don't worry though, I have thick skin, but brittle bones, from the fluoride that the government puts in the water to control my mind, so that I can watch the television which beams messages telling us to consume more.
Oh well, back to my hobby, got my trusty EL480i telescope.. just trying to find any evidence of a flag or footprints on the moon. Anyway, I have to go, Elvis wants another pie god dammit, he'll have to eat it cold, because Carbon dioxide is now a potent poison....
Well I don't really see it being addressed in any way that will begin to actually reduce emissions. Mind you there are ruminations that China is to embark on a emissions trading scheme though the aim is not to reduce emissions but to slow the rate of increase. The end result will be that we will see global annual emissions rise and will see an acceleration in rate of increase in the atmospheric CO2 levels.
The magic number touted is levelling atmospheric CO2 at 450ppmv to limit the temperature rise to 2 deg C. Now I don't know enough about climate modelling to know how accurate that number is. However, what we are seeing is a sustained period of temperature rise coupled with an increase in atmospheric CO2 almost entirely from anthropogenic sources. Regardless of what is said about Mann's hockey stick, the fact remains that the temperature anomaly has been confirmed by multiple studies using varied temperature proxies.
The absorption properties of CO2 within the infra-red spectrum is well understood, as is the band saturation effect that causes the logarithmic reduction in the energy intensity leaving the Earth. The radiative forcings of the long lived greenhouse gasses are well understood as are their contributions with increasing intensity. While the role of water vapour is less understood it's very short residency period makes it a reactionary atmospheric component and is not a long term driver of temperatures. The role of variations in the Sun is also less well understood, though the uncertainties are such that they cannot be used to explain the temperature variations.
The bare bones is that the current temperature variations (as well as those of palaeo variations) are not adequately explained in the absence of CO2 and the greenhouse effect and with anthropogenic additions of CO2 increasing the atmospheric CO2 levels by nearly 40% it is entirely logical to conclude that the bulk of the observed temperature anomaly is human induced.
As for the ramifications for humans on Earth that is a whole lot more subjective. Most of the doom and gloom merchants peddling imminent catastrophe are almost certainly wrong and most of the high profile ones all have political motives. From what I remember most of the predictions do not have a global 2 deg C rise in temperature occurring until late this century. However as the CO2 rise is leading the temperature rise the conditions for ensuring that temperature rise will be met long before then.
Judging from the rate of change we have seen in the last few decades I don't think most of the older members of this forum will see obvious large scale changes in the climate and will likely go to their graves still convinced it is a load of piffle. Though I think later in my life there will some major and obvious changes and my children and their children will live in a significantly different world.
How about the correlation between the number of pirates sailing the seas and the average global temperature? The correlation is obvious: back when there were more pirates the average temperature was lower; ergo, the absence of pirates is the cause of global warming.
Maybe now that those Somali and Asian pirates are active we will see a drop in the average global temperature.
Maybe this will make it to the front page of economist.com too.
Apologies for the late reply - life is quite busy at the moment.Derty - that's the science.
But where is the scientific solution?
Why are economists and politicians deciding on the solution? They are not qualified. Doesn't this worry you from a science perspective?
AND trading carbon credits (or abatements) to other low co2 emitting countries (or companies as apparently Al Gore does or has done with his own companies) does not actually remove co2 from the atmosphere?
Can you please explain to me how trading money is going to reduce co2 in the atmosphere?
Look forward to your reply...
PS - please don't point me to economist papers, because they are NOT scientists qualified in climate and atmospheric science.
It will work when the nations that pump 1000 times more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere follows this plan.The cap limit can be reduced over time, reducing the amount of CO2 entering the atmosphere and causing those industries and businesses that cannot comply to be priced out of business. Emissions trading allows the sale of carbon credits gained by emitting less than your cap or by sequestering CO2 to those that need to reduce taxes or allow production above a cap.
Cold snap is cold.DANGEROUS GLOBAL WARMING ALERT!
News article from the Nelson Mail.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/5336024/Motuekas-first-snow-in-several-decades
Swings and roundabouts - it's all about the long term averages.Mr Palmer welcomed the cold snap, saying it would help to provide the chilling many horticultural crops such as apples needed and reduce the risk of diseases and pests, which was high after such a warm autumn and a mild start to winter.
DANGEROUS GLOBAL WARMING ALERT!
News article from the Nelson Mail.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/5336024/Motuekas-first-snow-in-several-decades
and this excerpt from the NZ Herald.
"Yesterday saw the most widespread snow...
Swings and roundabouts - it's all about the long term averages.
It's a problem that afflicts both sides of the fence.Can you inform the Gorists and the Hansenists of this please.
It's a problem that afflicts both sides of the fence.
It's often used to score cheap points, push the barrow or scaremonger, in the full knowledge that they are perturbations in the trend.
Though more often than not, especially at the level this forum operates at, it is presented as genuine evidence for or against warming and just reinstates the posters lack of understanding of the processes at the most basic of levels.
...Though more often than not, especially at the level this forum operates at, it is presented as genuine evidence for or against warming and just reinstates the posters lack of understanding of the processes at the most basic of levels.
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