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Religion, Science, Scepticism, Philosophy and things metaphysical

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by bellenuit, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. grah33

    grah33

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    It's possible though that you don't understand me, so I will clarify. The morality, or "perfect will of God" as St. Paul put it, was always there, but God gave a lesser version appropriate for the times , intending to bring them out of it in the future .

    Augustine felt that human beings were dumbed down from sin, so the right thing isn't obvious to them. The word "wisdom" has relevance here. From the NT:
    "But the wisdom from above is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, accommodating, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial, and sincere." From the other lines as well around it, it seems that Paul thought a person who is like this - arriving at perfection - would have this intuitive ability within to know how they should conduct themselves worthily, and would live in such an excellent manner. They would be able to apply that finer morality in less obvious instances , and so live a perfect life.
     
  2. bellenuit

    bellenuit

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    You are completely confused. These are your words:

    A lesser form of morality vs. morality is morality
    to deal with the times vs. it's always the same

    so don't put God in a box: I haven't brought God into the argument at all. You are the one boxing yourself in with your contradictory statements.

    To be honest there is no point arguing or discussing any of this with you. Your statements are completely belief based, incoherent at times, contradictory within themselves and devoid of any historical or factual underpinning.
     
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  3. ducati916

    ducati916

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    That pretty much sums it up. Saves me typing a response.

    jog on
    duc
     
  4. ducati916

    ducati916

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    See previous response above.

    jog on
    duc
     
  5. rederob

    rederob

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    Perhaps we do understand you.
    This God of yours is willing to impose a lesser standard of morality so that his supposed flock will understand their sins or whatever "bring them out of it" means.
    So rather than set a standard for perfection, it's more wise to set a lesser standard... for reasons which are not clear.
    I would love to hear the argument for how condoning what is not moral is an appropriate way to improve morality.
    Laud not, forbid!
     
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  6. grah33

    grah33

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    I won't argue about words, as that would be a waste of time. Although you've made me realize that the NT does a great job of explaining morality and its constancy over time, and variation (in terms of prescribed codes to follow). The NT does a great job in knocking off the atheist's argument - that morals aren't constant, therefore God doesn't exist.
     
  7. grah33

    grah33

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    NT will give you the answer, easily enough:
    "
    Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. 9We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers, 10for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for anyone else who is averse to sound teaching that agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.
    "
    Also Christ's explanation for the changes ;it was simply to hard for them to follow in Moses's time. It's a bit like taking baby steps , and then bigger steps later on when you're ready.
     
  8. rederob

    rederob

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    There is no such argument that I am aware.
    Typically morality is measured at societal levels, and standards of behaviour across different societies can be very different. Determining right and wrong from moral positions, on the basis of what society accepts, can be quite different from the humanist's position.
    A problem with the God idea is that about half the world does not ascribe to it and there is no evidence that their morality suffers as a result (and I am not talking about people without belief).
     
  9. rederob

    rederob

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    So what was not moral was ok?
    Yes, it's not acceptable, but don't worry. You can repent any time you like and still go to heaven.
    qed
     
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  10. grah33

    grah33

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    There is a metaphor for it in the OT, which foreshadowed this simplicity; they merely looked up at the pole with the bronze serpent suspended on it, and were saved. So yes, it's that easy. Anyone who wants it can get it. Although for many it isn't so easy.
     
  11. rederob

    rederob

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    So much for your arguments - they fall apart at the seams.
    And yes, it's easy for anyone to repent: do you have a different bible to everyone else?
     
  12. MARKETWINNER

    MARKETWINNER

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  13. explod

    explod explod

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    12 years?


    [​IMG]
     
  14. MARKETWINNER

    MARKETWINNER

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    I thought it happened in Pakistan. I found the following link.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...fter-abducting-and-killing-boy-15-423545.html
    Racists are jailed for life after abducting and killing boy, 15

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
    List of countries by intentional homicide rate

    https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/spreading-fear-how-social-media-contributes-fear-crime

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/safest-countries-in-the-world/
    Revealed: The world's safest (and least safe) countries

    https://muscatdaily.com/Archive/Oma...male-tourists-second-in-the-world-Survey-5bcf
    OMAN SAFEST ARAB COUNTRY FOR FEMALE TOURISTS; SECOND IN THE WORLD: SURVEY
     
  15. Tink

    Tink

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    Tom Elliott says there are ‘astonishing inconsistencies’ with our reaction to attack on Christians

     
  16. bellenuit

    bellenuit

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    lindsayf likes this.
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