No, it's not our money anymore

[divs4ever]

Would I be correct in assuming that the problem that most see with Australia is continuing budget deficits caused by increasing welfare spending (NDIS etc) , reliance on government for healthcare and social services and not enough incentive for private enterprise in entrepreneurs?

This sounds like a page out of the Liberal party songbook, but there are relevant questions about how big government should be, and whether those that can afford to pay for their own healthcare, child care, education etc should be required to do so.

All sorts of issues would arise from these questions, it's the eternal battle of ideology, but us usual the practical considerations are often overlooked and buried under the ideological vomit.

it is more about the efficiency of government rather than size , ( think 'bang for the buck ' rationale )

but yes fiscal irresponsibility is bad for Australia and a bad example for the citizens

our system has major systemic flaws that nobody seems willing to address for example look at the outcome of the Aged Care Royal Commission ( wasn't there actually two of them ? ) and compare that to outcomes experienced by just this forum's members

the Liberal Party is a paper tiger , maybe if the Nationals break away again otherwise your only hope are the rag-tag independents as the Greens are more Communist than actual Communists ( all state control and no productivity )

 

[SirRumpole]

our system has major systemic flaws that nobody seems willing to address

eg split responsibilities in the health and education departments. Maybe the Feds should run both alone and stop the States stealing money for other purposes.

 

[divs4ever]

eg split responsibilities in the health and education departments. Maybe the Feds should run both alone and stop the States stealing money for other purposes.

they both leak ( taxpayer ) funds but which is more cost-effective , no point culling the most efficient one and empowering the worst offender , i am in favour of disbanding the Federal one and having free competition between states ( and force them to be tax-efficient ) the state voters are closer to Parliament house them , no hiding in ivory offices in remote Australia while the heat is on )

 

[SirRumpole]

i am in favour of disbanding the Federal one and having free competition between states

Sure , have free competition between States, or better between individual hospitals, but if you want to get the best system nationwide, then you need a central group monitoring perfomance so you can find out the modus operandi of the best performers and roll it out for everyone.

No real point having a good system for a few and cr@p for others.

 

[wayneL]

a few and cr@p for others.

You should get what you vote for. In a federation such as ours, that means that each state deserves what they get.

In my state, the Labor party refuses to invest in heath; consequently voting these tyrants in results in poor outcomes. (Not that I think the ilLiberals should do better).

Vis a vis, we got exactly what we voted for.

 

[SirRumpole]

You should get what you vote for. In a federation such as ours, that means that each state deserves what they get.

In my state, the Labor party refuses to invest in heath; consequently voting these tyrants in results in poor outcomes. (Not that I think the ilLiberals should do better).

Vis a vis, we got exactly what we voted for.

That's one way of looking at it. The problem in my opinion is the State/Federal blame game. If one of those runs the whole show you know who to blame.

 

[divs4ever]

Sure , have free competition between States, or better between individual hospitals, but if you want to get the best system nationwide, then you need a central group monitoring perfomance so you can find out the modus operandi of the best performers and roll it out for everyone.

No real point having a good system for a few and cr@p for others.

but after accessing nearly every public hospital in the greater Brisbane area in the last 7 years ! what was a public-funded ( by Golden Casket and later Lotto ticket buyers ) and State run has now waned to the extent folks who can't really afford it are accessing private hospitals despite the public systems being directly funded by taxpayers ( via the Medicare levy ) ( had to access private healthcare for a pediatric surgeon despite being on a disability pension , and still haven't met my hematologist yet , despite having been allotted him 5 years back , he just has a rare brief phone call with the GP )

now i can't tell you the old system was perfect (and private hospitals still existed and made a profit back then )

but such a system would be viable in most states ,

Queensland is only the third largest by population so sure Tasmania and N.T. may struggle ( Canberra would no longer be relevant if the Federal Government was disbanded ) and South Australia might have problems as well but it is a fairly compact state compared to W.A.

but SOMEWHERE in there is gross inefficiency , and it needs to be removed

 

[Sdajii]

Would I be correct in assuming that the problem that most see with Australia is continuing budget deficits caused by increasing welfare spending (NDIS etc) , reliance on government for healthcare and social services and not enough incentive for private enterprise in entrepreneurs?

This sounds like a page out of the Liberal party songbook, but there are relevant questions about how big government should be, and whether those that can afford to pay for their own healthcare, child care, education etc should be required to do so.

All sorts of issues would arise from these questions, it's the eternal battle of ideology, but us usual the practical considerations are often overlooked and buried under the ideological vomit.

It's certainly a very large problem, but certainly not the largest.

Australia is being systematically, deliberately, destroyed. Absurd welfare spending is one of many strategies being employed. It's so insanely obvious at this point, you can only fail to see it either with a metaphorical blindfold or because you're looking at it from within and can't manage to see things with a rational perspective, which will generally be due to decades of intense brainwashing.

I've already discussed several of the issues in this thread, and others are as obvious as they are too counter narrative to be legally typeable now, and things being illegal to type is yet another serious issue - you've never in all of history had the good guys being this keen to quash free speech and open discussion. Honest people love sunlight, only bad guys want to shut you up, because with full open transparent discussion, the truth comes out anyway.

One of the most obvious issues is that Australia is mass importing low quality people with no hope of becoming production members of society. The scum of other countries' populations they don't want. Australia is stupid enough to take them in so of course other countries will gleefully rid themselves of the worst among them.

Can you imagine, and perhaps you can't, going back anything more than 20 years ago and suggesting that it will somehow be a good idea to import large numbers of people who don't share the culture or national identity, don't want to, and we should give them more legal leeway than native born and bred citizens if they are caught committing crimes including violent or sexual? Can you imagine (and again, perhaps you're brainwashed enough to be unable, not to single you out personally, but probably more than half of Australians are these days, including conservatives to a surprising extent) 20-30+ years ago or any sane person at any time or place in history, not realising this is bad for a country? Right throughout history, countries have defended themselves from invaders because to neglect doing so means your own destruction every time. Police are literally finding any excuse possible to protect foreign crime gangs to the greatest extent they can plausibly deny being deliberate to a marginal majority of the local population.

Sure, massive spending on welfare and things like those jobkeeper or double dole payments etc during the covid years were always going to cause economic catastrophe (I was posting about it on this forum as soon as they announced such insanity), so of course the inflation we've been seeing in the last few years should surprise no one (but so many are stupid enough to still think it was caused by anything other than what it was), but it's not the largest problem. When the government itself works hard to demonise anyone who celebrates Australia Day, the day specifically designed to make people love their country, be proud of it, care about it and want to protect it, and the population is trained to believe that patriotism itself is a shameful thing, it takes some high level insanity not to see that the country is being deliberately destroyed.

When I was a young child and first read The Emperor's New Clothes I completely failed to understand it. When I was a couple of years older to finally understand the concept I was confused and didn't think it could really happen. When I was a little older, still a child, I was horrified to actually observe the phenomenon, but I was well into adulthood before I realised more than a rare few people could be as insane as required to fail to see something as obvious as what's happening in countries like Australia right now, and even less than 15 years ago when I gave up and left Australia I didn't think mainstream insanity could get as extreme as what I observe now.

So, no, you would not be correct in that assumption.

 

[farmerge]

That's one way of looking at it. The problem in my opinion is the State/Federal blame game. If one of those runs the whole show you know who to blame.

After spending a week in RPH 5 years ago in the spinal ward, two separate days at Midland Hospital about 2 1/2 years ago and 13 days at St johns Subiaco, the latter two being Private Hospitals, I can honestly say thank goodness I live in WA.
Our healthcare as far as I am concerned is second to none.

 

[SirRumpole]

It's certainly a very large problem, but certainly not the largest.

Australia is being systematically, deliberately, destroyed. Absurd welfare spending is one of many strategies being employed. It's so insanely obvious at this point, you can only fail to see it either with a metaphorical blindfold or because you're looking at it from within and can't manage to see things with a rational perspective, which will generally be due to decades of intense brainwashing.

I've already discussed several of the issues in this thread, and others are as obvious as they are too counter narrative to be legally typeable now, and things being illegal to type is yet another serious issue - you've never in all of history had the good guys being this keen to quash free speech and open discussion. Honest people love sunlight, only bad guys want to shut you up, because with full open transparent discussion, the truth comes out anyway.

One of the most obvious issues is that Australia is mass importing low quality people with no hope of becoming production members of society. The scum of other countries' populations they don't want. Australia is stupid enough to take them in so of course other countries will gleefully rid themselves of the worst among them.

Can you imagine, and perhaps you can't, going back anything more than 20 years ago and suggesting that it will somehow be a good idea to import large numbers of people who don't share the culture or national identity, don't want to, and we should give them more legal leeway than native born and bred citizens if they are caught committing crimes including violent or sexual? Can you imagine (and again, perhaps you're brainwashed enough to be unable, not to single you out personally, but probably more than half of Australians are these days, including conservatives to a surprising extent) 20-30+ years ago or any sane person at any time or place in history, not realising this is bad for a country? Right throughout history, countries have defended themselves from invaders because to neglect doing so means your own destruction every time. Police are literally finding any excuse possible to protect foreign crime gangs to the greatest extent they can plausibly deny being deliberate to a marginal majority of the local population.

Sure, massive spending on welfare and things like those jobkeeper or double dole payments etc during the covid years were always going to cause economic catastrophe (I was posting about it on this forum as soon as they announced such insanity), so of course the inflation we've been seeing in the last few years should surprise no one (but so many are stupid enough to still think it was caused by anything other than what it was), but it's not the largest problem. When the government itself works hard to demonise anyone who celebrates Australia Day, the day specifically designed to make people love their country, be proud of it, care about it and want to protect it, and the population is trained to believe that patriotism itself is a shameful thing, it takes some high level insanity not to see that the country is being deliberately destroyed.

When I was a young child and first read The Emperor's New Clothes I completely failed to understand it. When I was a couple of years older to finally understand the concept I was confused and didn't think it could really happen. When I was a little older, still a child, I was horrified to actually observe the phenomenon, but I was well into adulthood before I realised more than a rare few people could be as insane as required to fail to see something as obvious as what's happening in countries like Australia right now, and even less than 15 years ago when I gave up and left Australia I didn't think mainstream insanity could get as extreme as what I observe now.

So, no, you would not be correct in that assumption.

Ahh, you are talking about a takeover by the wokes?

Yes , that is certainly annoying. Identity politics is rubbish, as is political "correctness" and I have said it quite often here, but I think politicians are starting to wake up that excessive immigration is self defeating, even if it's only because it's being shouted at them wherever they go.

 

[Sdajii]

Ahh, you are talking about a takeover by the wokes?

Yes , that is certainly annoying. Identity politics is rubbish, as is political "correctness" and I have said it quite often here, but I think politicians are starting to wake up that excessive immigration is self defeating, even if it's only because it's being shouted at them wherever they go.

Goodness no. The wokes are not behind anything. They are pawns. Useful idiots. The first to be up against the wall when their job is done.

 

[wayneL]

After spending a week in RPH 5 years ago in the spinal ward, two separate days at Midland Hospital about 2 1/2 years ago and 13 days at St johns Subiaco, the latter two being Private Hospitals, I can honestly say thank goodness I live in WA.
Our healthcare as far as I am concerned is second to none.

Wait till *they think you at end of life, they will try to covertly bump you off as quickly as possible.

 

[divs4ever]

Wait till *they think you at end of life, they will try to covertly bump you off as quickly as possible.

yes that has become quite a trend

 

[divs4ever]

After spending a week in RPH 5 years ago in the spinal ward, two separate days at Midland Hospital about 2 1/2 years ago and 13 days at St johns Subiaco, the latter two being Private Hospitals, I can honestly say thank goodness I live in WA.
Our healthcare as far as I am concerned is second to none.

now the issue when going non-private is WHEN , not so much the quality of the care ( even in recent times )

take for instance when my planned angioplasty ( implant a stent ) hit a curve-ball , and the very experience cardiologist realized the issue needed more discussion and a much better physician ( not that this guy was a dud , but DID know his limits ) so while in the damaged artery he took many photos ( considering it was only just over one inch of artery in focus ) got the stuff out , promptly ( while the other staff were tidying me up ) referred me straight to the Professor who was the superior there ( and eventually did the procedure ) marking it' URGENT' ' probably because my LVEF ( Left Ventricle Ejection Factor ) was just above 20% at the time , and had previously been dropping by 5% per month ( the medical review consultant ( for Centrelink ) later that month quickly read through the new data , got up shook my hand and said Centrelink would contacting me soon .. 6 days later Centre-link gave me a full disability pension AND six months back pay !! ...... and TWO MONTHS after i had the pension , the stent was finally implanted

( not often Centre-link beats an urgent procedure by two months , at least not according to the folks i talk to )

 

[farmerge]

Wait till *they think you at end of life, they will try to covertly bump you off as quickly as possible.

Sorry Wayne can't agree with that. When I was in RPH I was in a pretty bad state, physically and mentally.

 

[Sdajii]

Sorry Wayne can't agree with that. When I was in RPH I was in a pretty bad state, physically and mentally.

The Australian health care system is very hit and miss. I've never had a stroke, heart attack, cancer etc, but my adventures have given me far more than my share of physical injuries, snake bites and other external issues which have landed me in Australian hospitals. I've had multiple experiences of both 'Oh my goodness that was mind-blowingly brilliant' and 'Wow, that's horrific, these people deserve to be locked up'. A close friend of mine has terminal health issues caused by medical malpractice he received in a Melbourne hospital while involuntarily isolated due to a contagious disease. He knows nothing of medicine but picked up the error in what they were doing, complained repeatedly, and when he demanded they stop and threatened to physically walk out of the hospital if they didn't review his treatments, they realised they were in the wrong and changed the treatment, but sufficient damage was already done and despite him being younger than I am it looks like I'll be attending his funeral before I'm old, and in the mean time he can barely leave him at all due to his condition, and will probably never again even complete a task like a trip to the local supermarket. There's no shortage of stories like this and I just use this example because I walk talking with my friend yesterday while making plans to visit him when I fly to Australia next week.

I'd still prefer an Australian hospital over what's on offer in almost any other country, but I wouldn't praise the Australian system too heavily, it's definitely hit and miss. As a foreigner, I'd actually generally be more confident of not running into serious problems in a Thai hospital since they know more focus will be put on any mistakes they make with me, and they'll be more likely to double check and ensure they get things right, but everyone everywhere is still human and there are no guarantees.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Just hope you're never going to be one of these people.

 

[farmerge]

Just hope you're never going to be one of these people.

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Unfortunate as it is no amount of infrastructure can keep up with hordes of immigrants.
My own experience though it was an emergency 5 years ago, straight into emergency and a ward at Midland Hospital and by 3pm in an ambulance and transferred to RPH Spinal Unit
Luck of the draw I expect.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Unfortunate as it is no amount of infrastructure can keep up with hordes of immigrants.
My own experience though it was an emergency 5 years ago, straight into emergency and a ward at Midland Hospital and by 3pm in an ambulance and transferred to RPH Spinal Unit
Luck of the draw I expect.

600~1000 people a week are coming to Qld from the southern states, and they're reluctant to spend money on the health care system. Most doctors' surgeries here will not take on new clients because they're overbooked.

The Brisbane local council knew this years ago, in 2006 they were putting projected population growth pamphlets in our letter boxes.

I had to get an X-ray and an MRI the other month on my ankle, went to the priavtised section of the hospital because it was Saturday afternoon and they could do the X-ray and no staff to do the MRI. On top of this, I had to pay out of my pocket to get it done.

This is how bad the health care system is, the MRI was done elsewhere on Monday, I had to pay $260 up front, and I was returned $120. Imagine having the $140 and being refused service because you couldn't afford the $260 upfront. These politicians need their heads rammed into the ground and flushed down the toilet like the old days.

 

[wayneL]

Unfortunate as it is no amount of infrastructure can keep up with hordes of immigrants.
My own experience though it was an emergency 5 years ago, straight into emergency and a ward at Midland Hospital and by 3pm in an ambulance and transferred to RPH Spinal Unit
Luck of the draw I expect.

That is different to what I was referring to. With my FIL, it was very obvious they were trying to move him along asap.