Horrific child murder in Perth

bullmarket · 29 June 2006

Hi bunyip

bunyip said:
It's cowardly NOT to kill these scum.
If we came across some mongrel attacking a little kid or raping him/her or killing him/her or whatever, we'd be absolute low down cowards if we didn't step in and protect the child if we possibly could, even if it meant killing the attacker.
It's cowardice of the lowest order that governments and do gooders and bleeding hearts and fools with professional qualifications and spruikers of Christian claptrap and others devoid of common sense will not take responsibility to protect everyone in society, particularly young children, by permanently eliminating these scum once and for all, i.e. execute them.

Bunyip

I agree 100% that we need to protect children and also the vulnerable and elderly in our society from predators....that goes without saying.

But deliberately murdering (in at least the moral sense) ,legally or not, offenders is not the way to do it for the reasons I posted earlier and as reinforced by yogi which I also agree 100% with.

The reason I see murdering offenders as cowardly is because whether we like it or not, we do have other options like the one I posted originally.

In my eyes somoene who is willing to murder an essentially defenceless human being, at their supposed time of execution, regardless of their offence by stringing him up, strapping him to an electric chair etc etc is no less a coward and murderer than the original offender was when he committed his crime against a defenceless person in the first place.

Murdering the offender is nothing more than self gratutious vengeance imo.

I also agree 100% with yogi's post

cheers

bullmarket

3 veiws of a secret · 29 June 2006

I stopped reading this entire thread .......but a thought came across to me ....possibly touched on by other ,I just dunno~!........
Now if this Dante guy killed this innocent girl......then are we to assume he attempted this before,perhaps other days,but never got the nerve to kill somebody at the time,or possibly other children where stalked on that day but just managed to get away........
My mind is at loggerheads with this madness.......

Sean K · 29 June 2006

Relax Three Views. We are very lucky here in Australia. I deployed to Rwanda with the UN in 1994 after the genocide to pick up the pieces and there are much worse things in life. Trust me.

bunyip · 29 June 2006

yogi-in-oz said:
Matthew 18:6

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe
in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged
about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of
the sea."

Clearly, anybody reading the passage above can see,
that this killer's destiny is sealed in continual punishment
reserved for the worst violators of God's law, regardless of
what happens in the justice system ..... !~!

So, despite our emotions upon hearing about such crimes,
revenge is not ours take, so let's leave it to those that
have been appointed as lawmakers, to express our rage .....

..... and even if they fail in our eyes, please be comforted
by the passage above, this killer WILL SUFFER for his sin !!!

Blessings upon you

yogi

Yeh yeh Yogi.....I'm sure that's all very inspirational stuff. But it fails to address the problem of what to do with these scum while they're here on earth, and it fails to address the problem of how to protect the innocent little kids who are exposed to these mongrels.
Imposing a sentence of life imprisonment is clearly not the answer. For a start, life doesn't mean life at all, it usually means about 13 years.
Apart from that, even the odd one who is sentenced 'never to be released' can always appeal the sentence, and he'll invariably find lots of idiotic supporters for his cause. Particularly if he plays the system while in prison by feigning remorse, participating in rehabilitation programs and so on.

Those who are given the responsibility of assessing these people throughout their prison term, and deciding whether or not the person is rehabilitated and fit for release, are clearly big on professional qualifications but small on common sense.
Consider the case of Queensland paedophile Dennis Ferguson, the charming chap who kidnapped three children between the ages of four and eight, held them captive in a motel for five days and repeatedly raped them.
It must be patently clear to anyone with the capacity for clear thinking that Ferguson was never fit to set foot in society again. Just one look at the guy was enough to reveal that he wasn't the full quid, that he could never be rehabilitated. But you guessed it.....Ferguson was assessed by some professionally qualified person who has the IQ of a gum leaf, and this person said in effect "No worries folks, Mr Ferguson is reformed, he's rehabilitated, he won't do those naughty things again. He liked raping little kids once, but that's all in the past. He's not like that anymore. He's a changed man. We'll let him back out in the community....there won't be any problems."

So Ferguson was released, much to the disgust of everyone with even a small amount of common sense. A few weeks later he reoffended by raping a 9 year old girl.

So don't go beating your Christian drum too loudly, Yogi. What happens to these scum in the next life (if there is one) is not the issue here. The issue here is about how we handle these scum and stop them preying on innocent little kids.
What are your thoughts on addressing this issue?

Bunyip

bullmarket · 29 June 2006

Hi Bunyip

Locking up serious offenders with no chance of rehabilitation or remorse for the terms of their natural life is a viable alternative to murdering them out of vengeance by hanging, firing squad etc etc. because it keeps them permanently separated from society.

Maybe laws have to changed to disallow appeals or early release and how you go about that is a whole new thread, but the principle of being locked up for your natural life is still valid imo.

As I said in my original post, the pros of this alternative greatly outweigh the cons as I see it

Someone posted a link earlier in this thread that clearly showed that prisoners on death row in the US have since been found to be not guilty of their charges and luckily before they were executed .........so you can bet your bottom $ that if we introduced the death penalty, one day you will be executing an innocent person

I could be wrong but your posts seem to be driven by bitterness towards those like I who have differing views and beliefs to yours.

Maybe try to relax a little and just accept that we are all entitled to our own views and beliefs

cheers

bullmarket

Bobby · 29 June 2006

bunyip said:
Yeh yeh Yogi.....I'm sure that's all very inspirational stuff. But it fails to address the problem of what to do with these scum while they're here on earth, and it fails to address the problem of how to protect the innocent little kids who are exposed to these mongrels.
Imposing a sentence of life imprisonment is clearly not the answer. For a start, life doesn't mean life at all, it usually means about 13 years.
Apart from that, even the odd one who is sentenced 'never to be released' can always appeal the sentence, and he'll invariably find lots of idiotic supporters for his cause. Particularly if he plays the system while in prison by feigning remorse, participating in rehabilitation programs and so on.

Those who are given the responsibility of assessing these people throughout their prison term, and deciding whether or not the person is rehabilitated and fit for release, are clearly big on professional qualifications but small on common sense.
Consider the case of Queensland paedophile Dennis Ferguson, the charming chap who kidnapped three children between the ages of four and eight, held them captive in a motel for five days and repeatedly raped them.
It must be patently clear to anyone with the capacity for clear thinking that Ferguson was never fit to set foot in society again. Just one look at the guy was enough to reveal that he wasn't the full quid, that he could never be rehabilitated. But you guessed it.....Ferguson was assessed by some professionally qualified person who has the IQ of a gum leaf, and this person said in effect "No worries folks, Mr Ferguson is reformed, he's rehabilitated, he won't do those naughty things again. He liked raping little kids once, but that's all in the past. He's not like that anymore. He's a changed man. We'll let him back out in the community....there won't be any problems."

So Ferguson was released, much to the disgust of everyone with even a small amount of common sense. A few weeks later he reoffended by raping a 9 year old girl.

So don't go beating your Christian drum too loudly, Yogi. What happens to these scum in the next life (if there is one) is not the issue here. The issue here is about how we handle these scum and stop them preying on innocent little kids.
What are your thoughts on addressing this issue?

Bunyip

Well said Bunyip,
Have you noticed that most child molesters seem to have an affiliation with church groups !
Therefore are most sicko's religious ?

Bob.

bullmarket · 29 June 2006

Hi bobby

Bobby said:
Well said Bunyip,
Have you noticed that most child molesters seem to have an affiliation with church groups !
Therefore are most sicko's religious ?

Bob.

I'm not convinced your assumption is true.

What verifiable data are you using to make your assumption "....most child molesters seem to have an affiliation with church groups !"

cheers

bullmarket

Sean K · 29 June 2006

Interesting point Bobby but I'd be hesitant to say 'most'.

The prevalence of child molestation by Catholic and Christian Brothers leaders could be viewed at in two ways.

1. Did they join the church because they wanted access to little boys and girls, or

2. Did they need to satisfy their inate desire for sex, which their faith prevented them from satisfying, this then driving them to satisfy their desires by the most readily available source.

Not quite on the topic though. There's nothing to say this guy was a 'Christian'. Yet.

bullmarket · 29 June 2006

It looks like we are slowly drifting off topic now

In another thread I posted the obvious fact that even christians commit crimes and so I'm not sure where we are heading now.........but anyone will be hard pressed to convince me, in the absence of verifiable data, that the % of christians that actually commit any crime is not a miniscule % of the total number of christians in the world

Like in any basket of apples there are bound to be a very small number of bad ones

cheers

bullmarket

sails · 29 June 2006

Bobby said:
Well said Bunyip,
Have you noticed that most child molesters seem to have an affiliation with church groups !
Therefore are most sicko's religious ?

Bob.

Sadly I have to agree with your first statement, Bob. Not only church groups, but anywhere they can gain the trust of children. I think they especially like the church groups because Christians are taught to forgive and they are more likely to get off lightly.

How do I know???? The ex husband was one such individual and I was so trusting and naive and didn't know what he was up to for many years - he not only abused kids but also the trust of his own family. He was so "respected" in his work with children in a church that even when some of the girls told their parents, they were not believed. Eventually it all came out and although many did, some of the parents would not allow their children to testify because they felt they should forgive.

I don't think it is all the fault of the church when seemingly "good" people offer their services to help out. It just seems to be part of the child molesting mentality to deceive as many as possible. I believe that blue cards are now necessary for those working with children in churches - hopefully they will help to protect - but these types have an incredible ability to deceive.

Needless to say, that marriage ended in divorce and I chose to move on without bitterness and did not blame God for the sickening choices the ex made with his right to a free will. However, I do feel that faith in God gave the added strength I needed during a very difficult time. This all happened a long time ago now and I have since been happily married for many years to a wonderful husband.

So, I don't think sicko's actually have much respect for God or they would not do what they do - they just know how to work the system and I guess they learn how to be the "wolf in sheeps clothing".

sails · 29 June 2006

bullmarket said:
It looks like we are slowly drifting off topic now

In another thread I posted the obvious fact that even christians commit crimes and so I'm not sure where we are heading now.........but anyone will be hard pressed to convince me, in the absence of verifiable data, that the % of christians that actually commit any crime is not a miniscule % of the total number of christians in the world

Like in any basket of apples there are bound to be a very small number of bad ones

cheers

bullmarket

I don't think anyone here is saying that all church people are bad - far from it. But the problem is that a few bad apples can do a lot of damage.

3 veiws of a secret · 29 June 2006

KENNAS "Relax Three Views. We are very lucky here in Australia. I deployed to Rwanda with the UN in 1994 after the genocide to pick up the pieces and there are much worse things in life. Trust me."

I'm well aware of the situations in other parts of the world, have travelled extensively,and have this sadistic option of slumming around here and there ,I think some people refer to it as backpacking ,haaaaaaaaaa.
But yes your quite correct,I was more focused to the events in Perth and without realising it,it can happen anywhere in OZ.
Like a friend of mine said many years ago,murderer's are only murderers when they are caught. The ones that are not caught are not front page news are they,until they are caught,yet they walk amongst us.
That Darmer(???) guy who cut his victims boiled them,stored them in his fridge ......was only caught because of the smell that got away,errors of his habit,possibly an occupational error.
But I do hear you re: Burundi/Rwanda situation.I think I'll rather be the monkey then the organ-grinder on this thread.

bullmarket · 29 June 2006

Hi sails

sails said:
I don't think anyone here is saying that all church people are bad - far from it. But the problem is that a few bad apples can do a lot of damage.

yes you may be right

The point I was trying to make is that even in the worst case scenario where all criminals might claim to be christian (and I don't think it's anywhere near 100%) then they are still a miniscule % (bad apples) of the total number of christians in the world.

And so yes I agree with you that those who have little or no belief in christianity could easily make a grossly incorrect generalisation imo based on a miniscule % of 'bad apples'.

cheers

bullmarket

visual · 29 June 2006

Bullmmarket,
FREE WILL, this is what sets people apart from animals,
what the hell has religion or defence of christianity to do with that?
God already knew that humans are fallable so He gave us FREE WILL,and then gave us the rules to deal with those who didnt make good decisions.

As we can see not many people take into account those rules,its all about money.The excuse industry runs on it.Hence the reason he was free in the first place.Yeh already know to look up your old posts for your other opinions,

Sean K · 29 June 2006

Ooooh, But does FREE WILL truly exist???

That's a whole semester at university. Books have been written on it!

visual · 29 June 2006

ye that would come under the excuses industry.

If we dont have free will then it would go without saying that we are all following one another,yet going by this incident not too many people have behaved like him,so ,what does that mean,

People only behave the way we let them,

Sean K · 29 June 2006

I think we're all programmed vis. Free will is an illusion.

visual · 29 June 2006

so you went to Rwanda and because everyone was chopping each other up,you joined in right.
Doubt it,the Australian army doesnt work like that.

If we have to include religion in this argument ,free will makes up a huge extension of it,otherwise no one would know where they stood.

pacer · 29 June 2006

Seems to me we are off the topic but I'd like to point out the history of the church (and other religous groups), has been plagued by all sorts of hidden depravity, that continues to be coverd up to this day.
This is the way they work, by mind control and threats of eternal damnation (which I think is a crock.....made up) to scare the masses into submission. Fear is a very powerful tool and when bred into you at a young age, has an almost unbreakable power.
As for genocide...christians, over the centuries (the crusades for instance), and even in the last two centuries in australia, are the worst offenders.
It's no wonder religions are becoming less popular......it's a farce, and the leaders of such institutions are to blame.
I'd rather believe in tree spirts and the earth mother etc ect (but I don't) than be involved in a group of fear-mongering power freaks who try to force thier belief on others.....

There is no heaven or hell, there is only life and death..make the most of it now....live hard die young and leave a good looking corpse

Athiest forever...... It doesn't mean I'm a bad person.

kgee · 29 June 2006

Murdering the offender is nothing more than self gratutious vengeance imo.[/B]

I just don't agree with this
If a dog attacks a child we put the animal down and this is seen as a rational act...why...because it is rational and logical
So why not use this logic with people that act worse than these animal's
Forget the self gratuitous vengeance...just a simple painless lethal injection-
problem over

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