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I have no doubt @basilio is wearing one, but I would like to see evidence that @rederob and @IFocus are wearing them in their respective states.
I'm in Qld and I see maybe 1/200 wearing one... And absolutely nobody in my local area (outer bogan suburbs).
My outlaws report that it is probably pretty similar in Western Australia.
Photographic evidence will be accepted.
ICYMI, here is what made headlines overnight:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07...ews-covid-19-victoria-daniel-andrews/12497838
- The coronavirus pandemic "continues to accelerate", with a doubling of cases over the last six weeks
- A genetic mutation that made the new coronavirus more infectious may also make it more vulnerable to vaccines
- More than three-quarters of recently recovered COVID-19 patients had heart muscle problems show up in MRI tests
- The world's biggest COVID-19 vaccine study has entered the later stages of testing
- Indonesia has confirmed more than 100,000 cases of COVID-19, the most in Southeast Asia
Those that I have seen wearing masks here (WA) have underling health issues that makes catching COV19 certain death.
I assume the continuing high numbers in Victoria means not enough people are following the rules anyone have a different view on the ground there?
Leaving aside true antivaxers, the concern breaks down to risk/reward.Not sure how old people are here.
But In my life time I couldn't enter certain countries without being vaccinated for certain diseases Yellow Fever being one.
I still remember the quarantine stations (here in Australia) that people getting off ships had to pass through to control certain diseases coming in to the general population.
I suspect its going to be a return to the past (quarantine areas on entry not hotels in all countries) in a lot of things and those that have lived lets face it protected lives are going to have to toughen up (just a little).
In answer to why we are doing what is happening now?
Its pretty simple and nothing to do with politicians / people / feelings / freedoms / left / right / I don't know pick any argument.
Actions currently taken is from the advice from a very large group of professional experts (who have spent their entire lives working on this stuff not 4 months on facebook / utube) in weighing up the harm / risks / health outcomes not on any one group in the community but the population as a whole.
Leaving aside true antivaxers, the concern breaks down to risk/reward.
The obvious concern is that the Vax may be more dangerous than the disease.
The equine Hendra Vax is a case in point, it kills many more equines, and causes a crapper load more of severe adverse reactions than those actually affected by Hendra virus.
Hence the class action against Zoetis.
May I remind people of the Thalidomide fiasco of what happens when pharmaceuticals go wrong.
I don't think the great majority of people are anti vaccine but rather anti "safe"vaccine.
When you consider that this virus has a greater than 99% survival rate, and multitudes greater than that when people do not have any comorbidities, the safety of any vaccine must reflect that reality.
In other words a vaccine must have many times lesser effect on humans then the disease, otherwise there is no point to the vaccine.
A vax that is rushed through the process cannot be assures this result, hence the distrust.
The vaccines that you have mentioned in your post do actually reflect this metric, and is the reason for their broad acceptance.
When comparing vaccines to vaccines one must compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.
The challenge for we plebeians is deciphering the motives.All makes sense.
I would add however that COVIDS effect on people is not as minimal as you may suggest. In theory the mortality rate is 1%. However there is enough experience now to indicate that longer term effects on people who have had a serious infection is also substantial. I don't believe that can be disregarded.
The query about possible side effects of the vaccine ? Absolutely. And on top of that legitimate concerns about the safeguards in producing the vaccine. One of the worst cases of people affected by a vaccine was when the first Polio vaccines were distributed and one batch was actually infecting people. In this case making a serious mistake and hurting millions of people would be disastrous.
Another valid question would be "How long should testing be done on a range of people to check out possible short and longer term side effects ? " Not an easy one to answer..
I have to say I am surprised at the speed of this development.
Daniel Andrews has bitten the bullet and decided that private aged care facilities don't have the capacity to effectively deal with COVID 19. Is this a surprise ?
Gutsy call but it seems Morrison is backing him up and the State and Commonwealth governments are jointly working to ensure a better outcome in aged care centres than is currently happening.
Premier Daniel Andrews says he has no confidence in private aged care Covid-19 response
.....Andrews said in facilities where the state government had “no confidence in infection control, where there is no confidence that care can be provided to a suitable standard, then we will do everything we can to move those residents out” and into hospitals.
“I cannot stand here and tell you that I have confidence that staff and management across a number of private sector aged care facilities are able to provide the care that is appropriate to keep their residents safe,” Andrews said.
“If I could say that, I would. We don’t run this sector but the residents in these homes are all Victorians. The commonwealth government have asked for help and that is exactly what my government and our agencies will provide to them.”
....Andrews and Morrison reiterated that the aged care challenge was a shared one governments would need to cooperate on to contain.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...idence-in-private-aged-care-covid-19-response
Leaving aside true antivaxers, the concern breaks down to risk/reward.
The obvious concern is that the Vax may be more dangerous than the disease.
The equine Hendra Vax is a case in point, it kills many more equines, and causes a crapper load more of severe adverse reactions than those actually affected by Hendra virus.
Hence the class action against Zoetis.
May I remind people of the Thalidomide fiasco of what happens when pharmaceuticals go wrong.
I don't think the great majority of people are anti vaccine but rather anti "safe"vaccine.
When you consider that this virus has a greater than 99% survival rate, and multitudes greater than that when people do not have any comorbidities, the safety of any vaccine must reflect that reality.
In other words a vaccine must have many times lesser effect on humans then the disease, otherwise there is no point to the vaccine.
A vax that is rushed through the process cannot be assures this result, hence the distrust.
The vaccines that you have mentioned in your post do actually reflect this metric, and is the reason for their broad acceptance.
When comparing vaccines to vaccines one must compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.
All makes sense.
I would add however that COVIDS effect on people is not as minimal as you may suggest. In theory the mortality rate is 1%. However there is enough experience now to indicate that longer term effects on people who have had a serious infection is also substantial. I don't believe that can be disregarded.
Pity he didn't realise that private security guards in hotel quarantine couldn't do the job either.
We keep hearing this vague statement being repeated in the media and parroted in social media, without and solid data to back it up. It's much like the reference to some 3 year old kid somewhere in the world who died (obviously omitting to mention the congenital defects the child was born with), being used to say "See? It doesn't just affect old people!"
I'd suggest that your assumption that a three year old kid who died from covid had co morbidities is just as invalid as assuming they did not.
We keep hearing this vague statement being repeated in the media and parroted in social media, without and solid data to back it up. It's much like the reference to some 3 year old kid somewhere in the world who died (obviously omitting to mention the congenital defects the child was born with), being used to say "See? It doesn't just affect old people!"
We literally have over 10 million documented recoveries (and probably many times that number of recoveries who were too mild to be noticed, many of whom didn't even realise they were infected with anything at all). Permanent damage doesn't show up after you're already over it (this is a ridiculous notion so many people are assuming!). Permanent damage is damage which is already done, exists after the virus is out of the system, and won't ever go away. It doesn't first show up after the virus is out of the system then never go away. The worst 10 million cases so far don't show this, yet we still somehow have an insane 'it's too soon to be sure' narrative.
Many people are so quick to hype up hypothetical or even demonstrably fictional problems of the virus, yet discount and actual, tangible problems of the mitigation efforts, or discount any potential hazards of a vaccine. It never makes sense to use a cure or mitigation strategy unless you are sufficiently sure that you are doing significantly more good than harm. Generally people have a firm grasp of this basic concept, but on this issue it has flown straight out the window, put on a disguise then jumped on a train.
It's a bit early to get peer reviewed science backing up what doctors are finding, but here's one small scale study. It would be unusual for the Italian study to be unique given a wealth of anecdotal information suggesting a wide variety of symptoms.We keep hearing this vague statement being repeated in the media and parroted in social media, without and solid data to back it up.
No evidence!The worst 10 million cases so far don't show this, yet we still somehow have an insane 'it's too soon to be sure' narrative.
Again, just a guess. So far that's all you have done regarding vaccine candidates.It never makes sense to use a cure or mitigation strategy unless you are sufficiently sure that you are doing significantly more good than harm. Generally people have a firm grasp of this basic concept, but on this issue it has flown straight out the window, put on a disguise then jumped on a train.
How about some solid Medical Evidence on the ongoing problems many people are facing after infection with COVID 19 ? Worth checking out perhaps ?
Here’s what we know so far about the long-term symptoms of COVID-19
July 27, 2020 5.56am AEST
Peter Wark
Conjoint Professor, School of Medicine and Public Health, University of Newcastle
https://theconversation.com/heres-w...out-the-long-term-symptoms-of-covid-19-142722
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