Australia's Population

satanoperca · 2 February 2010

Trembling Hand said:
We export 60% of the food we produce. What we import is usually specialised products or out of season.

I will take your word on this TH, but if you go to Coles or Woolies and read the labels of the generic brands most is imported.

Need to chase up some stats on this.

Cheers

awg · 2 February 2010

From an economic and military outlook, it is deemed beneficial to have a population of around 30 mil, from what I have read,, as it requires a certain population level to self-sustain various industries.

Perhaps this view is becoming less relevant in todays world?

However, other factors, especially environmental factors could be very problematical if not strongly addressed.

Water and soil husbandry, for instance.

Demographic and social factors are obvious, hence the paper, I think it is right to discuss the matter openly.

I have an uncomfortable feeling that percieved future security issues are the unspoken driver on this matter longterm.

I would rather have our population issues than those facing most other countries

satanoperca · 2 February 2010

vincent191 said:
We have an aging population problem. In 10 years there won't be enough taxpayers to support the baby boomers who will be reaching retirement age.

The easy solution is to find more taxpayers. Migration is the easy way out. It creates an instant army of ready made taxpayers. Some one else have paid for their childhood expenses like education and Australia reaps the instant benefits of productivity and taxes.

Again it has it's pros & cons, we have been through this before after the war and we saw a huge big influx of migrants from Europe mainly from Greece & Italy. The Snowy River scheme won't have been built without migrant labour.

Yes but what happens when they get old, we have to import more people and so goes the ponzi scheme.

Cheers

Happy · 2 February 2010

Julia said:
If not, surely our major cities are going to be a nightmare to live in in another couple of decades?

This is exactly what happens and there would have to be much more water to make inland centres not survivable but attractive and comfortable to live in.

Decentralisation has enormous costs and even 50 million new migrants will not generate enough tax to pay for it as well as pay for ageing population.

Those who advocate 30 million plus population just look at tiny fraction of what it is likely to bring.
They simply do not spell out what it is likely to cause, but that’s convenient and typical.

But if it blows in our face, one positive thing out of it might make Australia not as attractive to migrate to.
(There is hardly anybody trying to jump border to North Korea.)

prawn_86 · 2 February 2010

Julia said:
If not, surely our major cities are going to be a nightmare to live in in another couple of decades?

They already are.

After recently moving to Syd, i have these observations:
- The roads are atrocious. Bumpy, narrow, winding, poor layout
- If you want a good road you have to pay a toll
- There is no struture at all to the city and surrounds. Very few major arteriels etc
- Public transport is reasonable at running on time, but pretty much always crowded

bellenuit · 2 February 2010

gooner said:
Most of the tropical north is aboriginal land. Are you proposing to steal it again?

If the aborigines own the land then they are just as much entitled to sell it to developers as anyone else. Who said anything about stealing the land from them? In fact it could provide them with the means to get out of the poverty trap they are in.

I don't know if it will ever come to that, but the premise of what I was saying is that we may have little choice but to develop the north due to pressure from our overpopulated neighbours, so we might as well start planning for it now on our terms.

Trembling Hand · 2 February 2010

satanoperca said:
I will take your word on this TH, but if you go to Coles or Woolies and read the labels of the generic brands most is imported.

Need to chase up some stats on this.

Cheers

Nope,

The food industry is integral to Australia’s economic and social prosperity. In 2006-07, it accounted for 20 per cent of manufacturing sales and services income and in 2007-08 it provided jobs for 206,000 Australians. The overwhelming majority of food sold in Australia is grown and supplied by Australian farmers. We are able to export almost two-thirds of our agricultural produce, while ensuring around 97 per cent of the fresh fruit and vegetables sold in supermarkets is grown and supplied locally.

In 2007-08, Australia exported $23 billion worth of food compared to food imports in that same year of $9 billion, despite the effects of drought. A substantial proportion of these food imports comprised beverages, including specialty branded spirits, and some highly processed foods that are not produced in Australia.

http://www.daff.gov.au/agriculture-food/food

no time right now can dig up some more for ya lata

tradingtiger · 2 February 2010

If the Japanese market is now roughly a quarter of what it was in early 90's (ie, 40,000 then and now Nikkei is 10,000) does that mean the average value of shares that make up their index is a quarter of the value now some 20 years later?

And if so how can they afford to retire and i believe they have an aging population?

Mr J · 2 February 2010

Doesn't mean much without considering purchasing power.

Happy · 2 February 2010

Trembling Hand

… and some highly processed foods that are not produced in Australia.

Like garlic grown in China on MAN MADE FERTILISER

Mr J · 2 February 2010

I did not need to know that, Happy.

Sidamo · 2 February 2010

Happy said:
Like garlic grown in China on MAN MADE FERTILISER

Presumably made by man in a factory, or are you suggesting there's an army of Chinese peasants taking dumps on their crops?

Happy · 2 February 2010

I tried to stress exception to comment:

... highly processed foods that are not produced in Australia

The other one just ‘slipped out’

Bushman · 2 February 2010

tradingtiger said:
If the Japanese market is now roughly a quarter of what it was in early 90's (ie, 40,000 then and now Nikkei is 10,000) does that mean the average value of shares that make up their index is a quarter of the value now some 20 years later?

And if so how can they afford to retire and i believe they have an aging population?

Much higher savings rates than Australia. Also rate of share ownership has plummeted over the years and is much lower than Oz.

awg · 2 February 2010

Happy said:
Like garlic grown in China on MAN MADE FERTILISER

Suitably treated human effluent most certainly should be fully recycled if we are ever to maintain a sustainable environment imo, in this country, let alone the world.

degradation of high quality organic topsoil (and water) via a number of mechanisms is a topic most people dont think much about.

If it cannot be dealt with much better than it is now, population growth will eventually reverse, with much handwringing and starvation

Aussiejeff · 2 February 2010

Woe betide the first generation that has to bear the insufferable humiliation of not materially improving their status or living standards due to overpopulation.

Is it not unbearable to think that the current 5 bed, 3 bath McMansion + 3 cars + 1 child family might have to revert to 4 bed, 2 bath, Mini-McMansion + 2 cars + 1/2 child family status in the not too distant future?

Oh WOE will they be!!

Wot? Me woe?

Nup.

Me will be pushing daisies by then!

gav · 2 February 2010

Isn't it a bit hypocritical of good old Krudd to want to double our population by 2050, yet at the same time want to impliment an ETS system? If he is really committed to reducing the so called "man-made" Climate Change, why on would he want to double the amount of polluters?

gooner · 2 February 2010

gav said:
Isn't it a bit hypocritical of good old Krudd to want to double our population by 2050, yet at the same time want to impliment an ETS system? If he is really committed to reducing the so called "man-made" Climate Change, why on would he want to double the amount of polluters?

hypocritical? no

inconsistent. Oh yea......

Julia · 2 February 2010

gooner said:
hypocritical? no

inconsistent. Oh yea......

Why isn't it hypocritical, gooner?
The two aims are directly opposed.

Mr J · 2 February 2010

Julia said:
Why isn't it hypocritical, gooner?
The two aims are directly opposed.

I would say they are one and the same: more taxes.

Australia's Population

satanoperca

awg

satanoperca

Happy

prawn_86

Mod: Call me Dendrobranchiata

bellenuit

Trembling Hand

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tradingtiger

Mr J

Happy

Mr J

Sidamo

Happy

Bushman

awg

Aussiejeff

gav

gooner

Julia

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