Cashless society

[JohnDe]

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I just had an interesting conversation with one of my long-time customers, she owns a couple of pharmacies with her husband, and they had an interesting story about their bank. They went to withdraw $10,000 and where asked why they wanted the cash, what they were going to spend it on. the questions were answered but two days later the bank called and asked questions about the amount of money they have been depositing for several months. When my customers questioned the bank, she was told that the government has introduced new money laundering rules and that they had to ask every customer that deposited or withdrew to the new criteria. They emailed the new document.

My customer purchased the first business 12 years ago, the second in a country town which requires a lot of effort for both of them, including separation while one stays for certain days and high kilometers on their vehicles to drive, are very angry at the bank and the new government regulation attacking them. Nothing has changed in their banking, the amounts are very similar over the past few years. the only difference was that they decided to withdraw $10,000.

They are now buying gold; she showed me the transactions. She tested the waters about 3 months ago and has now turned to gold for their banking.

 

[JohnDe]

I just had an interesting conversation with one of my long-time customers, she owns a couple of pharmacies with her husband, and they had an interesting story about their bank. They went to withdraw $10,000 and where asked why they wanted the cash, what they were going to spend it on. the questions were answered but two days later the bank called and asked questions about the amount of money they have been depositing for several months. When my customers questioned the bank, she was told that the government has introduced new money laundering rules and that they had to ask every customer that deposited or withdrew to the new criteria. They emailed the new document.

My customer purchased the first business 12 years ago, the second in a country town which requires a lot of effort for both of them, including separation while one stays for certain days and high kilometers on their vehicles to drive, are very angry at the bank and the new government regulation attacking them. Nothing has changed in their banking, the amounts are very similar over the past few years. the only difference was that they decided to withdraw $10,000.

They are now buying gold; she showed me the transactions. She tested the waters about 3 months ago and has now turned to gold for their banking.

Some of the advice they were given by a professional gold merchant, who is also a family friend - concentrate on gold and buy amounts under $10,000. Have some silver because it is a metal of necessity and the market is growing especially over the next 5 to 10 years. Buy silver only in 1kg ingots.







However, like everything, there are no guarantees. Just like the share market, prices can crash.

 

[JohnDe]

Back from 3 weeks in Japan and South Korea, and I can say that cash is still king in both those countries.

Card payment was accepted in most places, but some frowned on it and a minority few only accepted cash. There are vending machines everywhere selling all sorts at prices that put Australian pricing to shame, those machines take both card and cash but using cash was easier and never failed, whereas the card facility was bothersome.

We went shopping in the world's largest underground mall (a working bomb shelter) in South Korea, haggling is accepted and fun but only with cash.

I can't recommend it enough, go visit Japan & South Korea.

 

[qldfrog]

Back from 3 weeks in Japan and South Korea, and I can say that cash is still king in both those countries.

Card payment was accepted in most places, but some frowned on it and a minority few only accepted cash. There are vending machines everywhere selling all sorts at prices that put Australian pricing to shame, those machines take both card and cash but using cash was easier and never failed, whereas the card facility was bothersome.

We went shopping in the world's largest underground mall (a working bomb shelter) in South Korea, haggling is accepted and fun but only with cash.

I can't recommend it enough, go visit Japan & South Korea.

John, i am quite familiar with Japan but never been to South Korea.might pick your brain when ready.

 

[Bellcose]

I was close to laughing the other day when I went to use cash to pay for some small items. Totaled $17. The young lass became completely confused. She had rung up the amount to include a card surcharge and was utterly flummoxed when I told her I wasn't paying the amount of $17.27 as shown on the till. I tried to explain to her the amount included a card surcharge but I was paying with cash. Poor thing kept on insisting the amount owed was what was displayed on the till. Finally, had to call her boss over. She was very kind to the young girl and slowly explained paying with cash does not include a card surcharge. I paid the $17 and left 30c as a tip.

 

[farmerge]

I was close to laughing the other day when I went to use cash to pay for some small items. Totaled $17. The young lass became completely confused. She had rung up the amount to include a card surcharge and was utterly flummoxed when I told her I wasn't paying the amount of $17.27 as shown on the till. I tried to explain to her the amount included a card surcharge but I was paying with cash. Poor thing kept on insisting the amount owed was what was displayed on the till. Finally, had to call her boss over. She was very kind to the young girl and slowly explained paying with cash does not include a card surcharge. I paid the $17 and left 30c as a tip.

Generalising a bit. But it seems to Me and Her that the current generation have no idea of and about cash.
Generally poorly educated, which is not their fault, but the system they came up in, and seem only to have a card mentality.

 

[Bellcose]

Generalising a bit. But it seems to Me and Her that the current generation have no idea of and about cash.
Generally poorly educated, which is not their fault, but the system they came up in, and seem only to have a card mentality.

The flaw is inadequate training by the owners. I acknowledge they are also time poor and under the pump but training of employees is an essential job if they want the business to be successful.

 

[Bellcose]

And don't get me started when the goods cost, say, $1.15 and you hand over $2.15 but the cashier hands back the 15c plus 85c in change from the till.

 

[farmerge]

And don't get me started when the goods cost, say, $1.15 and you hand over $2.15 but the cashier hands back the 15c plus 85c in change from the till.

Basic arithmetic and sadly this is the way of cashiers these days.
I had a very similar experience not so long ago and the poor girl had no idea how to subtract the two figures.
In desperation I got a pen and paper and showed her.
I found it quite embarrassing doing that, not for me, but her.

 

[Craton]

Generalising a bit. But it seems to Me and Her that the current generation have no idea of and about cash.
Generally poorly educated, which is not their fault, but the system they came up in, and seem only to have a card mentality.

The flaw is inadequate training by the owners. I acknowledge they are also time poor and under the pump but training of employees is an essential job if they want the business to be successful.

Poorly educated and "the flaw" in my view lays squarely on the parents/guardians of said young people. Certainly in relation to "monies" and most certainly in the 3 R's.

<rant>
Things may be different nowadays but in the 80's and 90's, I could see that the primary school education system wasn't preparing my kids for what they would face outside of the school ground, as per here in the real world.

E.g., kids would ask why they/we don't have what their "friends" have. Perfect for explaining monies/financing, saving, compound interest, what having a job entails and that all important pay/cash flow, investing and banking, taxes, budgeting, debt/loans and servicing thereof, GST and other known or hidden charges etc. Later on, the importance of a good credit rating.

Making them responsible for the own bank accounts, custodial until they turned 18 but we never denied a withdrawal simply because they had to learn that not all purchasing decisions, might be the correct ones. Plus if it goes wrong, it hurts more if it's your own money, right?

So projecting into the future, savings and interest taught them both about cash and basic maths. Plus a myriad of other tangible things like discipline (how to save for a wanted item), managing personal wants and expectations etc but doing those sums, became fun for them.

FWIW.
Both my kids received pocket money on a rising, set dollar amount pending on their age. Mere shekels really as that was all we, as parents could spare.
"Dad, I only need to save another x number of bucks. Got a job for me to do?"
Yep, jobs equalled money and for them, cash was, and still is, king.

When my kids got their first proper paying jobs they started and still do, put a set amount of their pay into the "untouchable" account. So proud of them because I see them teaching my grandkids those very same core money handling skills.

Sorry for derailing the thread somewhat but it just burns me up when I see and know of parents that, virtually abdicate their parental responsibilities when it comes to teaching their kids how to handle what they'll face in the real world. I'm not just talking about cash and the 3 R's here either.
</rant>

 

[divs4ever]

The flaw is inadequate training by the owners. I acknowledge they are also time poor and under the pump but training of employees is an essential job if they want the business to be successful.

i remember a story by a friend ( who moved overseas , since ) when a teenager was very poor at math/arithmetic , so when starting at an apprentice butcher he would sit outside the shop ( before work and during breaks ) and write down the numbers ( on the number plates ) of passing cars and add them up .

.
so an employee with initiative can self-train in an economical manner

and just as quickly calculate any change needed ( i didn't use the 'slow change at the traffic lights ' trick and thus got more repeat customers )

 

[farmerge]

Poorly educated and "the flaw" in my view lays squarely on the parents/guardians of said young people. Certainly in relation to "monies" and most certainly in the 3 R's.

<rant>
Things may be different nowadays but in the 80's and 90's, I could see that the primary school education system wasn't preparing my kids for what they would face outside of the school ground, as per here in the real world.

E.g., kids would ask why they/we don't have what their "friends" have. Perfect for explaining monies/financing, saving, compound interest, what having a job entails and that all important pay/cash flow, investing and banking, taxes, budgeting, debt/loans and servicing thereof, GST and other known or hidden charges etc. Later on, the importance of a good credit rating.

Making them responsible for the own bank accounts, custodial until they turned 18 but we never denied a withdrawal simply because they had to learn that not all purchasing decisions, might be the correct ones. Plus if it goes wrong, it hurts more if it's your own money, right?

So projecting into the future, savings and interest taught them both about cash and basic maths. Plus a myriad of other tangible things like discipline (how to save for a wanted item), managing personal wants and expectations etc but doing those sums, became fun for them.

FWIW.
Both my kids received pocket money on a rising, set dollar amount pending on their age. Mere shekels really as that was all we, as parents could spare.
"Dad, I only need to save another x number of bucks. Got a job for me to do?"
Yep, jobs equalled money and for them, cash was, and still is, king.

When my kids got their first proper paying jobs they started and still do, put a set amount of their pay into the "untouchable" account. So proud of them because I see them teaching my grandkids those very same core money handling skills.

Sorry for derailing the thread somewhat but it just burns me up when I see and know of parents that, virtually abdicate their parental responsibilities when it comes to teaching their kids how to handle what they'll face in the real world. I'm not just talking about cash and the 3 R's here either.
</rant>

Very similar to how we were raised by our parents.
Both of our sons soon became the go to kids here if odd jobs were around.
The locals knew they were good to do the work, but I ensured they weren't ripped off, as I negotiated a rate for them first up with both of them at the negotiating table in the very early days.
Fast forward 6 months and Hey Dad is this a fair hourly rate.
They knew what a dollar was worth and what their time was worth also.

 

[TimeISmoney]

The flaw is inadequate training by the owners. I acknowledge they are also time poor and under the pump but training of employees is an essential job if they want the business to be successful.

It's how a lot of companies sadly retain employees these days.

 

[farmerge]

It's how a lot of companies sadly retain employees these days.

I came across a cafe recently, and after purchasing a drink and something to eat, the lady pointed to a sign at the till.
We love cash, it's great for us and cheaper for you.
As I always carry some cash on me paid with that and saved the 1.5% bank fee.

 

[Value Collector]

Generalising a bit. But it seems to Me and Her that the current generation have no idea of and about cash.
Generally poorly educated, which is not their fault, but the system they came up in, and seem only to have a card mentality.

I wouldn’t say poorly educated, just different experiences, they can do thing things that the older generation can’t simply because both generations have had different experiences.

Paying with cash is becoming like sending a fax.

 

[Value Collector]

saved the 1.5% bank fee.

might have missed out on 3% worth of benefits, I just booked return business class flights for the wife and Into London using points, not to mention earned $100’s of dollars of additional interest by having my cash sit in the bank until the credit card bill is due rather than in my wallet

 

[Dona Ferentes]

The RBA is coming for your Qantas points. Who’s going to pay?​

The airline’s frequent flyer program is one of the great Australian rackets that not even the big banks seem to be able to stop. Can the central bank?

14 Sept, 2025


Buy a house, set up an offset account, get a Qantas credit card – it’s an Australian rite of passage. Buy the groceries, earn Qantas points. Put the council rates on the credit card, earn Qantas points. Pay the insurance, earn Qantas points

Qantas Frequent Flyer, with its 17.6 million members, is one of Australia’s great businesses. What feels like a free lunch is really just customers paying for their own points via higher prices at the checkout, higher credit card fees or “reward” money back from a bank that charged a merchant more than it needed to.
QFF customers effectively buy their own points and then struggle to use them. Members “earned” 222 billion points last financial year and redeemed 185 billion, or 20 per cent fewer, which is a pretty normal year for the airline. All those points are a big part of Qantas’ $3.6 billion in unredeemed QFF revenue, which is up 60 per cent in the past decade.
Yet, there’s no little point arguing the merits because Australians are hooked. More than 35 per cent of all of Australia’s credit card spending is on Qantas points-earning cards. The major banks have to offer them and are big points buyers; the big retailers, such as Woolworths and BP, are also big points buyers. It’s a brilliant money-spinner for Qantas.


The aptly named Qantas Loyalty (because customers are so addicted) recorded $2.9 billion in revenue and $556 million in underlying earnings before interest and tax last financial year.
It’s so good that no one seems to be talking about how the RBA’s payments system crackdown, designed to strip up to $900 million out of banks’ pockets and specifically give them less to spend on rewards (read: points), could hurt.

Qantas Loyalty chief executive Andrew Glance, who used to be responsible for the banks, got only one question on it and shrugged it off at the airline’s full-year results last month.
“We have very, very deep relationships with our banking partners dating back near 30 years,” he said. “We have many levers available to us across a very diverse program, as do the banks … We absolutely remain confident in terms of the [$800 million to $1 billion EBIT] targets that we’ve put out there to 2030.”.

Are Qantas points now so ingrained in Australian culture that they’re a non-negotiable marketing expense for the banks? Are customers so sticky and so blinded by the points that they will pay even more for supposedly premium Qantas-linked cards?

The banks don’t want to talk about it publicly, but it sounds like the answer is yes to both. They’re fighting the RBA’s proposed payments crackdown while trying to keep Qantas and the Qantas points out of it. Qantas is using its strong brand and political power to push back against the RBA’s proposal, too, although it also didn’t go anywhere near the rewards points issue in its submission.

But surely the RBA clamping down on this racket is a risk worth considering. Qantas has high hopes for the business, and analysts expect it could be the airline’s second-biggest earner within three years.

The big business of Qantas points​

To understand the link between the RBA and Qantas points, you have to understand how banks recoup their costs (and raise some of the money for rewards) on credit cards and how Qantas Loyalty makes money. Every time a customer uses a credit card to buy goods, the merchant’s payment services provider pays what’s called an interchange fee to the cardholder’s bank (the card issuer).

This interchange fee can be worth up to 80 basis points, or 8¢ for every $10, for any one transaction, and no more than 50 basis points on average across the bank’s book. The truth is small business merchants pay the bigger rates, while the likes of Woolworths and Coles pay a fraction of the cap (in basis points terms).

Products that provide rewards to the cardholder, such as a Qantas points-linked card, will typically have higher interchange fees. The fees can be used to fund rewards programs, pay the bank for building payments infrastructure and issuing the card, and help with the cardholder’s interest-free period.

Now the RBA wants to slash the interchange fee cap to 30 basis points, which it says would cut domestic issuers (mostly banks) interchange revenue by about $900 million. It released a 137-page consultation paper in July as part of a broader suite of proposed payments changes, and bankers expect to hear more on where it’s headed in December.

If it plays out, it will have a material impact on credit card economics for all the banks, particularly the big four, which makes it very much worth watching for Qantas.

In theory, that’s $900 million less to spend on Qantas points and other costs of issuing and running a credit card business, which is a lot of money. If the banks are as addicted to rewards as their customers supposedly are, they will have to increase credit card fees/interest rates or shorten the interest rate-free period to recoup the revenue from customers, or wear the added expense as a marketing cost.

The banks have plenty of well-founded concerns with the interchange fee proposal, including that American Express, which is outside the RBA’s regime and charges merchants much more than 80 basis points, could run away with Australia’s credit card market. Submissions by Commonwealth Bank of Australia and National Australia Bank, the two biggest credit card issuers, and No.3 player Westpac were all released last week. So was the Qantas submission.

Qantas argued against a ban on card surcharges (unlike the banks, which supported it) and the interchange fee changes. It said a similar 30 basis point interchange fee cap implemented in the UK a decade ago saw “average credit card annual percentage rates increased by approximately 4 percentage points above the rise in base rates” and noted that Australian reward credit card interest rates were generally lower than in the UK.

Qantas has never disclosed how much money it makes from the big banks and other Australian credit card issuers. However, it’s hard to see how the banks would be among its biggest points buyers. Qantas argues it has a good audience for the banks, premium customers and good credit, although they’re also playing the other side with American Express.

The big thing for Qantas Loyalty is to keep QFF members earning points and redeeming them. Qantas Loyalty records revenue on the sale of points (marketing revenue), redemption of points (redemption revenue) and commission on the sale of products such as insurance.

Qantas is promising to get more QFF customers to redeem points this financial year (it guided for points redeemed to grow faster than points earned), including via its still-new Classic Plus reward flights program.

“That redemption event drives a significant satisfaction for a member, and that is the stimulating factor in the flywheel for that member to re-earn,” Qantas chief executive Vanessa Hudson told analysts last month. “And that’s a very, very important part of the economics and the flywheel effect in loyalty.”


The more points customers earn and redeem, the more they tend to earn and redeem (over and over), which reinforces the airline’s brand and market position.

Hudson has the business flying – it was flying before she took the chief executive job. It got through a similar interchange fee turbulence in 2017, when the 80 basis point cap was introduced, and if it is similarly little scathed by the RBA’s proposed changes, the rewards for Qantas shareholders should be high. Analysts have big growth expectations.

The $2.9 billion revenue Qantas Loyalty recorded in the year to June 30 was up from $2.5 billion last year and $1.5 billion just before the COVID-19 pandemic. Barrenjoey analyst Matt Ryan expects it to increase to $3.9 billion in the coming three financial years and thinks it will be the airline’s second-biggest earner behind its Qantas domestic business in FY28.

 

[Craton]

I wouldn’t say poorly educated, just different experiences, they can do thing things that the older generation can’t simply because both generations have had different experiences.

Paying with cash is becoming like sending a fax.

You know, I had a bit of a chuckle yesterday at the fish and chip shop.
Whilst waiting for a retiree/pensioner to pay for a spring roll. The old gent complained about how expensive everything is and struggles to live on the pension.

I was feeling sorry for the old bloke and, if he didn't mind, was about to offer paying for his spring roll until, he asked if they had EFTPOS and pulled out his card. He proceeded to pay for the said roll even after he was advised of the 1.75% surcharge if paying by card. No worries he said and placed the card on the terminal.

I'm guessing he's not really struggling on the pension then eh?
Yes, I know. I don't know his financial circumstances, perhaps it was a special treat but if he was really struggling, surely paying by cash would be a money saver.

FWIW, my observations were that the CBA card he used wasn't a credit card, I didn't notice any other markings and if I'm correct, he didn't earn any points.

 

[Knobby22]

You know, I had a bit of a chuckle yesterday at the fish and chip shop.
Whilst waiting for a retiree/pensioner to pay for a spring roll. The old gent complained about how expensive everything is and struggles to live on the pension.

I was feeling sorry for the old bloke and, if he didn't mind, was about to offer paying for his spring roll until, he asked if they had EFTPOS and pulled out his card. He proceeded to pay for the said roll even after he was advised of the 1.75% surcharge if paying by card. No worries he said and placed the card on the terminal.

I'm guessing he's not really struggling on the pension then eh?
Yes, I know. I don't know his financial circumstances, perhaps it was a special treat but if he was really struggling, surely paying by cash would be a money saver.

FWIW, my observations were that the CBA card he used wasn't a credit card, I didn't notice any other markings and if I'm correct, he didn't earn any points.

I used to know a guy whose father (retired) who would go to McDonalds and drink the all day coffee for hours at a time.
His Dad was extremely wealthy in the tens of millions but so frugal he virtually lived as a pauper.
He also used to go around the bins to find aluminium cans. Anyway back on the subject.

 

[macca]

You know, I had a bit of a chuckle yesterday at the fish and chip shop.
Whilst waiting for a retiree/pensioner to pay for a spring roll. The old gent complained about how expensive everything is and struggles to live on the pension.

I was feeling sorry for the old bloke and, if he didn't mind, was about to offer paying for his spring roll until, he asked if they had EFTPOS and pulled out his card. He proceeded to pay for the said roll even after he was advised of the 1.75% surcharge if paying by card. No worries he said and placed the card on the terminal.

I'm guessing he's not really struggling on the pension then eh?
Yes, I know. I don't know his financial circumstances, perhaps it was a special treat but if he was really struggling, surely paying by cash would be a money saver.

FWIW, my observations were that the CBA card he used wasn't a credit card, I didn't notice any other markings and if I'm correct, he didn't earn any points.

My new CBA visa CC is almost blank on one side, rather confusing actually