Resisting Climate Hysteria

[sptrawler]

Our problem as a nation is not so much the fools paradise you contend, but the lack of direction for how we position ourselves with respect to our near neighbours, and leverage the natural resource advantages we possess. The fool's paradise syndrome is more likely thinking that we are should be beholden to the UK and USA for so many things, instead of carving out a distinctive role for our nation within the region we are part of.

The problem with your prognosis is two fold, the natural resource advantage is already diminishing as other countries come to market with cheaper commodities and as China takes over more and more of the worlds manufacturing and materials demand, its control of prices becomes stronger and our bargaining position becomes weaker.

As was shown during covid, China is in no way beholden to us, the punitive tariffs they imposed indicated they would not hesitate to punish us if it suited them and due to their size and fiscal dominance there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.

Where I feel our politicians are failing is they are not actually trying to give Australia a sustainable economy, at the moment we have a situation where ideology is driving the decision making and making us less competitive, rather than more competitive.

Both major parties are more interested in points scoring, rather than being pragmatic and working together to leverage whatever advantage we still have.

Electricity is just the current ideological battle field, when that fails rather than fix it, they will just band aid it and end up with a bigger mess, as has happened in education, health, NDIS etc and most other Govt services.

The first step to fixing something, is admitting you have a problem and accepting that previous decisions may have caused it.
Govt's don't seem to be able to do that.

 

[Smurf1976]

It is an historical fact that the NEM was put in place on the now false assumption that the market would lead to better outcomes for consumers. In that regard Tim's hands were tied, as are any future reviews of the NEM. That aside, whatever you believe technically to be a solution going forward has to be agreed by all States and the ACT in order to prevail. That seldom happens as changes in both state/territory and federal governments keep moving the goalposts, if not change the game.

I have read countless submissions to the NEM on their many reviews and it is clear that there is often consensus from industry players on what needs to happen for things to improve. The problem we have is getting their best ideas to be agreed, funded and implemented. Political ideology has been a massive impediment to meaningful reform.

The way I see it it, the outcome is so important to the resolution of multiple issues that no stone ought be left unturned in resolving it.

On the technical sides that means obtaining and analysing all relevant information.

Yes that will cost money but the present arrangements are costing $ billions more than they should so it needs to be seen in that context. When the prize is $ billions saved, well that easily covers the cost of renting some offices and hiring the right people.

The price of not sorting it is failure both economic and environmental.

 

[rederob]

The problem with your prognosis is two fold, the natural resource advantage is already diminishing as other countries come to market with cheaper commodities and as China takes over more and more of the worlds manufacturing and materials demand, its control of prices becomes stronger and our bargaining position becomes weaker.

As was shown during covid, China is in no way beholden to us, the punitive tariffs they imposed indicated they would not hesitate to punish us if it suited them and due to their size and fiscal dominance there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.

Where I feel our politicians are failing is they are not actually trying to give Australia a sustainable economy, at the moment we have a situation where ideology is driving the decision making and making us less competitive, rather than more competitive.

Both major parties are more interested in points scoring, rather than being pragmatic and working together to leverage whatever advantage we still have.

Electricity is just the current ideological battle field, when that fails rather than fix it, they will just band aid it and end up with a bigger mess, as has happened in education, health, NDIS etc and most other Govt services.

The first step to fixing something, is admitting you have a problem and accepting that previous decisions may have caused it.
Govt's don't seem to be able to do that.

Neither of your points hold up.

Australia's wind and solar energy potential - the natural resources I was referring to (as distinct from your mineral resources) - are unrivalled globally and do not diminish. The missing elements relate only to how those energy sources are captured at scale, and sold into the global community.

Regarding your point on COVID, the tariffs applied by China were retaliatory and flagged well in advance after Australia first banned Huawei and ZTE. Then Morrison, without a shred of evidence, critisied China's human rights record, and further ompounded the fractured relationship by supporting an independent COVID inqiry rather than one through the WHO. Why Australia thinks it can act against China without consequence beggars belief. (Not really because we are at the beck and call of America, and gladly do their bidding.)

As to electricity being a political battle field, I suspect you are talking about means of generation. Labor is committed to a strong transition to renewables by putting in place the necessary infrastructure, while the LNP will not even support net zero and instead think that a least cost option for consumers is the best way forward. The latter was cemented in place by Premier Crisafulli's decision to abandon major RE projects in Queensland. So the real problem seems to be about how best to manage and implement the requirements of our inevitable energy transition rather than fixing something that is broken. And if anything is "broken" it's the reliance on coal to remain the key to our energy future.

 

[sptrawler]

As to electricity being a political battle field, I suspect you are talking about means of generation. Labor is committed to a strong transition to renewables by putting in place the necessary infrastructure, while the LNP will not even support net zero and instead think that a least cost option for consumers is the best way forward. The latter was cemented in place by Premier Crisafulli's decision to abandon major RE projects in Queensland. So the real problem seems to be about how best to manage and implement the requirements of our inevitable energy transition rather than fixing something that is broken. And if anything is "broken" it's the reliance on coal to remain the key to our energy future.

Labor is commited to a strong transition is a long stretch of credibility.

The previous Government initiated Snowy2.0, the Marinus link to Tasmania and Kurri Kurri gas fired plant.

The current Government has halved the capacity of the Marinus link, fired up Kurri Kurri on diesel rather than a gas/ hydrogen combination which THEY demanded when the project was announced and THEY still haven't announced any other long duration storage or firming projects of their own initiative. Lol

Meanwhile they are propping most of the major energy intensive processing plants and may well have to prop up all of them, yep it's going gung ho.

Yet they and others criticise the coal generators for breaking down, when they are getting thrashed to death to support an add hock transition, which has every likely hood of ending up a mess.

Blind Faith is a great name for a musical group, but it isn't the way to change a complete energy grid.
Loyalty is is great, but reality eventually trumps it.

By the way I'm not talking about the means of generation, I'm talking about developing a sensible pathway to a reliable, secure and credible electrical system, what type of generation it uses is secondary to it actually working, that is the most important part, that it is fit for purpose.
But at least it's entertaining. Lol

 

[rederob]

Labor is commited to a strong transition is a long stretch of credibility.

The previous Government initiated Snowy2.0, the Marinus link to Tasmania and Kurri Kurri gas fired plant.

The current Government has halved the capacity of the Marinus link, fired up Kurri Kurri on diesel rather than a gas/ hydrogen combination which THEY demanded when the project was announced and THEY still haven't announced any other long duration storage or firming projects of their own initiative. Lol

Meanwhile they are propping most of the major energy intensive processing plants and may well have to prop up all of them, yep it's going gung ho.

Yet they and others criticise the coal generators for breaking down, when they are getting thrashed to death to support an add hock transition, which has every likely hood of ending up a mess.

Blind Faith is a great name for a musical group, but it isn't the way to change a complete energy grid.
Loyalty is is great, but reality eventually trumps it.

By the way I'm not talking about the means of generation, I'm talking about developing a sensible pathway to a reliable, secure and credible electrical system, what type of generation it uses is secondry to it actually working, that is the most important part.
But at least it's entertaining. Lol

Snowy2 will prove to be a white elephant, subsumed by home batteries, V2G, CER and BESS.

The Marinus Link was always going to be 2x750MW HVDC links, and this is sensible as VRE uptake might also negate the case for the second link.

Kurri Kurri is going ahead as planned, despite your claim:

As to firming:

Your point about "a reliable, secure and credible electrical system" implies what we now have is broken. However, that's not the case as what is occurring is a transition from unreliable coal to more predictable VRE+storage. This necessarily implies a need to continue to put in place the technologies, infrastructure and strategies that will allow the electricity grid to handle VRE.

 

[sptrawler]

Snowy2 will prove to be a white elephant, subsumed by home batteries, V2G, CER and BESS.

Batteries are a ridiculous option for long duration storage, the fact they have to be replaced in a relatively short time frame alone, makes them a ridiculous option let alone the fact they dischare in a short time frame.
More Snowy2 size storage facilities will be required IMO.

Australia urgently needs long duration energy storage, but first we need a target

Australia has the industrial base and the national interest to support a growing long duration energy storage market. What it needs now is a national target.

reneweconomy.com.au

The Marinus Link was always going to be 2x750MW HVDC links, and this is sensible as VRE uptake might also negate the case for the second link.

I don't know where you get your information from, from what I have read, Marinus has been reduced from 2x750MW links to 1x750MW link

Kurri Kurri is going ahead as planned, despite your claim:View attachment 205757
As to firming:
View attachment 205758
Your point

Kurri Kurri is a previous Government initiative, that the current Govt put a caviat on that it must be commissioned to run on gas with 5% hydrogen content, it is going to run on diesel and there is very little likelyhood it will ever get hydrogen.

Again reality catching up with ideology.

So in summation all your points have gaping holes in them and actually highlight the shambles that is unfolding.

Your point?

 

[rederob]

Batteries are a ridiculous option for long duration storage, the fact they have to be replaced in a relatively short time frame alone, makes them a ridiculous option let alone the fact they dischare in a short time frame.

Batteries are not needed for long duration storage. You might want to check out the work of David Osmond who does weekly simulations on RE in the NEM.

More Snowy2 size storage facilities will be required IMO.

I understand its your opinion, but it will not trump millions of home batteries and over ten million EVs capable of feeding into the grid.

Australia urgently needs long duration energy storage, but first we need a target

Australia has the industrial base and the national interest to support a growing long duration energy storage market. What it needs now is a national target.

reneweconomy.com.au

Linking to an American lobbyist organisation that has no knowledge of Australia's energy framework is not handy.

I don't know where you get your information from, from what I have read, Marinus has been reduced from 2x750MW links to 1x750MW link

I get my information from the source asat today's date:

Kurri Kurri is a previous Government initiative, that the current Govt put a caviat on that it must be commissioned to run on gas with 5% hydrogen content, it is going to run on diesel and there is very little likelyhood it will ever get hydrogen.

What's your point? Snowy Hydro's plant at Kurri Kurri is designed to run on gas, but can also be powered by diesel as a backup source. As an initiative it's meagre in the scheme of things, having been designed to run for only a minority of the time. That's because it's an on-demand gas power station, operating only when electricity demand is high and RE generation is limited, feeding only 660MW into the grid.

 

[sptrawler]

Batteries are not needed for long duration storage. You might want to check out the work of David Osmond who does weekly simulations on RE in the NEM.

There isn't very much sustainable and clean, about millions of tons of batteries that require mining, manufacturing and replacing at what in the scheme of things is very regular basis. As opposed to hydro which has an extremely long life cycle.
Batteries are very low energy density and are a finite resource, whereas hydro can be refurbished and is not a finite source of energy, plus gives the system inertia, stability and black start potential in one package.
But are we aiming for sustainability, or propping up China's battery export business indefinitely.
Norway seems to be supporting a lot of Europe with its hydro?

I understand its your opinion, but it will not trump millions of home batteries and over ten million EVs capable of feeding into the grid.

As above.
But I will add, how many people will have a home battery large enough to run their house overnight and supply excess to the grid? In summer in W.A a home battery will struggle to run the A/C, let alone the oven.

In Victoria I assume they have the problem in winter, where the battery will have to be used for heating and there will be very little sun to charge it and if the car is connected even less.

Also with cars, why would you for instance have bi directional charging for your car, when you can charge it off your home solar and not have to share your battery?
Also with battery vehicles, they are yet to be viable for heavy haulage, yet you are three steps ahead and saying they will be the heavy duty long duration storage, have you any idea how many batteries that would take?
Batteries are great, but the aren't the answer, they are a stop gap until something better comes along, putting all our money and betting it on batteries is a dumb as duck poo IMO.

Linking to an American lobbyist organisation that has no knowledge of Australia's energy framework is not handy.

Well a lot of the renewable fan club use the Renewable website as a trusted source, let's be honest they seem to have a lot of skin in the game.

I get my information from the source asat today's date:

View attachment 205765

What's your point? Snowy Hydro's plant at Kurri Kurri is designed to run on gas, but can also be powered by diesel as a backup source.

It actually shows how ill informed the Labor Party were when they were demanding that Kurri Kurri be commissioned on gas and 5% hydrogen in the first place.
From memory the head of Snowy walked over an argument between himself and Bowen, over the fact Bowen wouldn't accept that hydrogen wasn't practical or available at that time and it wouldn't be available at commissioning.
Now Chris is commissioning it on diesel and it may run on diesel for the first twelve months, so much for being on top of issues.

As an initiative it's meagre in the scheme of things, having been designed to run for only a minority of the time. That's because it's an on-demand gas power station, operating only when electricity demand is high and RE generation is limited, feeding only 660MW into the grid.

It is funny that you say Kurri Kurri is meagre in the scheme of things, when your previous post used the fact coal plants were breaking down at an increasing rate, wouldn't Kurri Kurri mitigate that issue by being able to assist the aging coal plants?
It would seem obvious to me, that a gas fired rapid response gas turbines would be ideal to take the pressure off the worn out coal plants and allow for some maintenance
Let's be honest, you did post massively big letters showing the coal plant breakdowns in post #11,403 above.

 

[rederob]

There isn't very much sustainable and clean, about millions of tons of batteries that require mining, manufacturing and replacing at what in the scheme of things is very regular basis. As opposed to hydro which has an extremely long life cycle.

First, your mining claims relate to just about everything that feeds into any manufacturing process, although wrt storage batteries we have moved from dirty NCM to cleaner LFP, and most recently to cleaner still sodium ion.
In regard to Hydro, I have no issues. Except that we in Australia, within the next 20 years, are likely to have an average home (1.8 motor vehicles) - via V2X and home batteries, capable of feeding into the grid in excess of 50kWh. The maths for just 2M homes is a more compelling case than a few Snowy2s.

Now Chris is commissioning it on diesel and it may run on diesel for the first twelve months, so much for being on top of issues.

That just BS, as its Snowy Hydro who is doing the commissioning, not the government, and that's a commercial and technical decision of a private operator who will run dual fuel open-cycle fast-start gas turbines, with diesel only available in case of a gas supply shortage.

It is funny that you say Kurri Kurri is meagre in the scheme of things, when your previous post used the fact coal plants were breaking down at an increasing rate, wouldn't Kurri Kurri mitigate that issue by being able to assist the aging coal plants?

Kurri Kurri's 660MW represents less than 15% of the shortfall from last summers coal generation failures. On the other hand we have the Waratah Super Battery Project with a little more dispatchable capacity and, because of its modular construction, its readily scalable.

Let's be honest, you did post massively big letters showing the coal plant breakdowns in post #11,403 above.

I don't get to choose the size of fonts in a copypaste.

 

[sptrawler]

First, your mining claims relate to just about everything that feeds into any manufacturing process, although wrt storage batteries we have moved from dirty NCM to cleaner LFP, and most recently to cleaner still sodium ion.
In regard to Hydro, I have no issues. Except that we in Australia, within the next 20 years, are likely to have an average home (1.8 motor vehicles) - via V2X and home batteries, capable of feeding into the grid in excess of 50kWh. The maths for just 2M homes is a more compelling case than a few Snowy2s.

The issue isn't what might be available in 20 years, it is nearly 10 years since Snowy2 commenced and it is still not available, it is all well and good crystal ball gazing about batteries, but at the moment we still require firming and long duration storage V2G is in its infancy.

That just BS, as its Snowy Hydro who is doing the commissioning, not the government, and that's a commercial and technical decision of a private operator who will run dual fuel open-cycle fast-start gas turbines, with diesel only available in case of a gas supply shortage.

That's not very nice, BS you say, there is only one of us BS#itting and it ain't me.

Oh how short a memory we have, when it is your beloved Labor Party, Snowy Hydro is a Government owned entity and answers to Chris Bowen.

Loading...

www.finance.gov.au

Snowy Hydro Ltd is wholly owned by the Australian Government represented by two Shareholder Ministers, the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Climate Change and Energy.

Labor to support $600m Kurri Kurri power plant but only if it runs on green hydrogen by 2030

Anthony Albanese will back controversial Snowy Hydro project that Morrison government has committed to funding

www.theguardian.com

Guardian Australia understands Labor wants the proposed gas “peaking” plant to be powered by 30% hydrogen at the time it becomes operational, promised by next year, and 50% by 2025 and 100% by 2030.

Snowy Hydro CEO in shock exit amid hit from crisis

Paul Broad has suddenly quit as chief executive of Snowy Hydro amid an escalation of tensions with Energy Minister Chris Bowen, most recently over Labor’s insistence that the new Kurri Kurri gas plant in NSW uses green hydrogen from day one.

www.afr.com

Paul Broad has suddenly quit as chief executive of Snowy Hydro amid an escalation of tensions with Energy Minister Chris Bowen, most recently over Labor’s insistence that the new Kurri Kurri gas plant in NSW uses green hydrogen from day one.

Kurri Kurri's 660MW represents less than 15% of the shortfall from last summers coal generation failures. On the other hand we have the Waratah Super Battery Project with a little more dispatchable capacity and, because of its modular construction, its readily scalable.

I don't get to choose the size of fonts in a copypaste.

Kurri Kurri has a dispatchable power of 660MW for as long as you need it, the Waratah Super Battery will have a
usable storage capacity of at least 1,400 MWh.

So the Super Battery you rave about, can supply the same as Kurri Kurri, for just over two hours, Kurri Kurri can supply it until you switch it off.

Also in the words of your leader.

Labor poised to approve controversial NW Shelf gas project

The Albanese government has made its strongest signal yet that it will give the nod to Woodside’s long-delayed development.

www.afr.com

26 May 2025 — ... gas development after Anthony Albanese said the transition to renewable energy could not proceed without gas as a back-up


As I said in an earlier post, it certainly sounds add hock to me, but it is your electrical system, as long as your happy that's the main thing.

I'm in W.A as you know, so at the moment it doesn't bother me. We have the gas apparently and you don't need it, because your going to run on hydrogen or maybe methane.
By the way it's great to have you back posting, the robust debate is always fun.

 

[Smurf1976]

So far as plant reliability is concerned, any fair assessment should be considering multiple factors:

Design - what's the expected performance of this facility? What was the original design criteria?

Operation and maintenance - is the operation of the facility in line with best practice? Or are shortcuts being taken with maintenance or is the operation of it particularly aggressive in terms of ramp rates and so on?

Condition - is this modern or at least good condition plant? Or is it past its design life, poorly maintained and simply worn out?

In practice well it's easy to point out that a single unit coal plant will go to zero, it can't do anything else during an outage if there's only one unit, and likewise it's easy to say that solar goes to zero every night or that a hydro station operated specifically to release water for irrigation only runs during the dry season. Etc. Those aren't failures though, they're just operation as designed.

Any properly designed system should be designed based on the expected performance of installed plant and the forecast load with a modest margin for the unexpected since it's a given things can and do go wrong. No matter how good the maintenance and operation, the risk is never zero.

As for Kurri Kurri, fuel issue really depends on how it's operated. To put some simplified numbers on it though, the power station need 7 units of gas per hour and the upstream pipeline delivers a maximum of 3 units of gas per hour. Between the gas compressor (at the end of the supply pipeline) and the gas turbines is a storage holding 70 units of gas. That being so, it can operate continuously for up to 17.5 hours, depleting the stored gas at a rate of 4 units per hour, and can operate up to 10 hours per day as limited by the supply of gas from the upstream supply. Those figures have been slightly rounded for simplicity.

Operation outside those limits requires diesel as the only option. Noting it's also possible to choose to use diesel as the priority, from a technical perspective the availability of gas does not preclude choosing to use diesel.

In practice for daily peaking use it could all be done with gas since the total operating hours are well within capacity limits. For deep firming wind and solar, as is needed during a period of low yield, diesel will be needed for any sustained running.

Another way to say all that is operation on gas can achieve full power but is energy constrained. Diesel is the workaround to that energy constraint.

 

[sptrawler]

What about the hydrogen?
Oh I forgot, we don't talk about us being the hydrogen super power anymore, 4 years is a long time in politics.
So now it is Gas/diesel.

IMO they would be better off continuing to build large scale hydro and pumped hydro, until it can effectively replace the coal generation, if that is feasible.
Batteries are great, but the long term viability as long duration storage, is extremely questionable IMO.

 

[rederob]

The issue isn't what might be available in 20 years, it is nearly 10 years since Snowy2 commenced and it is still not available, it is all well and good crystal ball gazing about batteries, but at the moment we still require firming and long duration storage V2G is in its infancy.

Lots of things were in their infancy at some point. However the issue here is energy transition and its implications on the grid.
Everyone knows that the introduction of rooftop solar was going to have some impact on grid over 20 years ago (via 2001's Photovoltaic Rebate Program (PVRP)), but it's doubtful energy planners knew that prices between then and now meant that solar would become a massively cheaper generation option, completely negating the need to build new coal generation plants.

Furthermore, initiatives such as CER and VPP via solar and home batteries are no longer cost prohibitive and pie in the sky, and V2X is the latest addition to the mix. Although I raised the potential for what can be available in 20 years time, the reality is that it occurs incrementally.

WRT firming, the below numers indicate the extent of recent RE capacity additions and the massive level of firming underway through large scale batteries:

At a more technical level the issue of power system reliability and system security in the NEM occurs through reserve contracts managed by AEMO's Reliability and Emergency Reserve Trader (RERT) function, while in WA it achieves this through the Reserve Capacity Mechanism (RCM).

Oh how short a memory we have, when it is your beloved Labor Party, Snowy Hydro is a Government owned entity and answers to Chris Bowen.

Chris Bowen does not stipulate how plant commissioning occurs so what you said was pure BS. Moreover, it is clear that Kurri Kurri will always use gas unless it is not available, and that's why it's dual fuel capability of gas/diesel operation necessitated a commissioning phase that ensured both were viable. It is certainly true that Labor wanted Kurri Kurri to run on hydrogen into the future, but they cannot have what does not exist. Let's see what the experts said about Kurri Kurri:

• "Documents lodged with the New South Wales government show Snowy Hydro expects it will run at 2% of its full capacity annually. While this is not uncommon for “peaking” gas plants, analysts have said the plant was not needed to maintain electricity supply and did not “stack up” commercially given the range of cheaper and cleaner alternatives in development."

I did say Kurri Kurri's contribution to the grid was meagre, but I should have used "inconsequential".

 

[sptrawler]

Snowy2 will prove to be a white elephant, subsumed by home batteries, V2G, CER and BESS.

The Marinus Link was always going to be 2x750MW HVDC links, and this is sensible as VRE uptake might also negate the case for the second link.

Kurri Kurri is going ahead as planned, despite your claim:View attachment 205757
As to firming:
View attachment 205758
Your point about "a reliable, secure and credible electrical system" implies what we now have is broken. However, that's not the case as what is occurring is a transition from unreliable coal to more predictable VRE+storage. This necessarily implies a need to continue to put in place the technologies, infrastructure and strategies that will allow the electricity grid to handle VRE.

Lots of things were in their infancy at some point. However the issue here is energy transition and its implications on the grid.
Everyone knows that the introduction of rooftop solar was going to have some impact on grid over 20 years ago (via 2001's Photovoltaic Rebate Program (PVRP)), but it's doubtful energy planners knew that prices between then and now meant that solar would become a massively cheaper generation option, completely negating the need to build new coal generation plants.

Furthermore, initiatives such as CER and VPP via solar and home batteries are no longer cost prohibitive and pie in the sky, and V2X is the latest addition to the mix. Although I raised the potential for what can be available in 20 years time, the reality is that it occurs incrementally.

WRT firming, the below numers indicate the extent of recent RE capacity additions and the massive level of firming underway through large scale batteries:
View attachment 205852

At a more technical level the issue of power system reliability and system security in the NEM occurs through reserve contracts managed by AEMO's Reliability and Emergency Reserve Trader (RERT) function, while in WA it achieves this through the Reserve Capacity Mechanism (RCM).

Chris Bowen does not stipulate how plant commissioning occurs so what you said was pure BS. Moreover, it is clear that Kurri Kurri will always use gas unless it is not available, and that's why it's dual fuel capability of gas/diesel operation necessitated a commissioning phase that ensured both were viable. It is certainly true that Labor wanted Kurri Kurri to run on hydrogen into the future, but they cannot have what does not exist. Let's see what the experts said about Kurri Kurri:

• "Documents lodged with the New South Wales government show Snowy Hydro expects it will run at 2% of its full capacity annually. While this is not uncommon for “peaking” gas plants, analysts have said the plant was not needed to maintain electricity supply and did not “stack up” commercially given the range of cheaper and cleaner alternatives in development."

I did say Kurri Kurri's contribution to the grid was meagre, but I should have used "inconsequential".

Well obviously the media and the ex CEO of Snowy had it wrong. Lol
What I posted was a reference to what fuel it was to burn at commissioning, the ex CEO said it wasn't feasible to burn Hydrogen as it wont be available, to which Chris took exception apparently as he was the boss. Lol
You can spin the BS as many ways as you want, but Chris and the boys thought they would be burning hydrogen at the completion of commissioning.

You can't run hydrogen through a gas turbine, if you haven't commissioned it to run on hydrogen and Chris demanded it be able to burn a 30% hydrogen mix when commissioned.
As I posted.
Labor wants the proposed gas “peaking” plant to be powered by 30% hydrogen at the time it becomes operational, promised by next year, and 50% by 2025 and 100% by 2030.
That is pretty clear that they wanted it to be commissioned to run on a hydrogen mix.
It also shows their lack of understanding of issues surrounding the project, hydrogen projects havn't even got off the ground yet.

The only reason coal is unreliable is because it is being made to operate in a way it was never designed to operate and it is also extremely old as you well know.

Renewables are the way of the future, no one is arguing that point, only the add hock manner it is being implemented, which is par for course.

 

[sptrawler]

If Chris Bowen tells Snowy hydro and the installation company, that the gas turbine has to be able to run on 30% hydrogen when commissioned, he is stipulating a commissioning parameter, so what you are saying is pure BS, if you want to nit pick. Lol

He no doubt has dropped that requirement, as he doesn't have the hydrogen, so they can't commission it to run on 30% hydrogen. Lol

 

[basilio]

Will be interesting to see how this report is received when it is finally released.

Risks of climate crisis to Australia’s economy and environment are ‘intense and scary’, unreleased government report says​

Sources say delayed risk assessment includes modelling of effects of climate crisis in ways that have been little discussed in political debate so far


An unreleased Australian government report on the economic and environmental risks posed by the climate crisis is “intense and scary”, and confronting even for those who work in the area, according to people familiar with the assessment.

Sources who have seen drafts of the risk assessment said it included scenarios that showed the climate crisis would affect all Australians, including in ways that to date have been little discussed in political debate.

The analysis considered the climate impact on eight systems: defence and national security; the economy, trade and finance; First Nations values and knowledge; health and social support; infrastructure and built environments; the natural environment; primary industries and food and regional; and remote communities.

The results suggest that under some scenarios major systems – including electricity networks, transport routes, food production and supply, and the financial sector – could struggle to cope with rising temperatures and escalating extreme events.

One source, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the report, said: “My sense is when people read it they have a newfound sense of where climate change will lead. It is intense and scary. Even for someone who has been focused on this and thinking long and hard about IPCC [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change] reports, it’s confronting to read about the details and the severity of the impacts.”

Another said: “People sometimes think things could get hotter, but it’s far more complex than just saying ‘it will get hot and people will have heatstroke.’ There is not one system that is not hard hit by climate change in the future.”

Risks of climate crisis to Australia’s economy and environment are ‘intense and scary’, unreleased government report says

Sources say delayed risk assessment includes modelling of effects of climate crisis in ways that have been little discussed in political debate so far

www.theguardian.com

 

[basilio]

Australia isn't Iraq... But heat waves and power supplies don't recognise politics just reality.

Iraq experiences nationwide power outage amid 'record' heat​

• Topic:Weather

14h ago14 hours ago

An Iraqi man stands under an electricity transmission tower south of Hilla city. (AFP: Ahmad Al-Rubaye)

In short:​

Power has gone out across Iraq as the country deals with temperatures over 50 degrees Celsius.
The electricity ministry said the grid suffered a "total outage" after two transmission lines were shut down "due to a record rise in temperatures".
The network suffered "a sudden and accidental loss of more than 6,000 megawatts on the grid", the ministry added.

Iraq experiences nationwide power outage amid 'record' heat

Power goes out across the country amid a heatwave that Iraqi meteorological services expect to last more than a week, with temperatures climbing as high as 50 degrees Celsius.

www.abc.net.au

 

[mullokintyre]

I read somewhere here that for the twentieth time someone has predicted that China has peaked in its fossil fuel usage.
Once again reality keeps kicking those eager predictions down the road.
Mick

 

[Logique2]

..But in August 2025, the dams are full in Sydney catchment And Mr Flannery is nowhere to be seen.

 

[basilio]

Always interesting to see how many times a deliberately twisted 20 year old comment can be resurrected to justify climate change denial.

As for the current reality of what global heating is doing ? This is a long, quite detailed story affecting 100's of thousands of people in the US and goes far beyond the headline example.

‘It happened so fast’: the shocking reality of indoor heat deaths in Arizona​

Heat deaths could surge in the state as energy poverty linked to Trump’s energy and trade policies burns

Nina Lakhani in Mohave county, Arizona
Sun 31 Aug 2025 09.29 EDT


It was the hottest day of the year so far when the central air conditioning started blowing hot air in the mobile home where Richard Chamblee lived in Bullhead City, Arizona, with his wife, children, and half a dozen cats and dogs.

It was only mid-June but the heat was insufferable, particularly for Chamblee, who was clinically obese and bed-bound in the living room as the temperature hit 115F (46C) in the desert city – situated 100 miles (160km) south of Las Vegas on the banks of the Colorado River.

‘It happened so fast’: the shocking reality of indoor heat deaths in Arizona

Heat deaths could surge in the state as energy poverty linked to Trump’s energy and trade policies burns

www.theguardian.com