Trump Era 2025-2029 : Stock and Economic Comment

[Craton]

...and hence the billions of USD poured into TSMC's fab expansion and building a third one in Arizona and this from Taipei Times 12 Jan 2025 reads in part.

TSMC has begun 4-nm chip production in US, official says
BREAKTHROUGH: The US is making chips on par in yield and quality with Taiwan, despite people saying that it could not happen, the official said.
Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co (TSMC, 台積電) has begun producing advanced 4-nanometer (nm) chips for US customers in Arizona, US Secretary of Commerce Gina Raimondo said, a milestone in the semiconductor efforts of the administration of US President Joe Biden.

In November last year, the commerce department finalized a US$6.6 billion grant to TSMC’s US unit for semiconductor production in Phoenix, Arizona.

“For the first time ever in our country’s history, we are making leading edge 4-nanometer chips on American soil, American workers — on par in yield and quality with Taiwan,” Raimondo said, adding that production had begun in recent weeks.

I would hazard a guess that the US of A desperately wants the chips to be all built on it's own soil thus, not having to defend (or even worry about defending) an island on the other side of the Pacific. All without military conflict.

One can draw one's own conclusions why the US of A would want to avoid any type involvement in a south China sea "skirmish". There a huge difference between flexing one's mucsle and actually using it. Just my own thoughts but it seems that under the current US of A administration, there is little to no appetite for sending the military into action.

Well, unless they are a minority like the Houthis...

Anyways, the way I see it the US of A is isolating and shielding itself in a protectionist endeavour that has changed the status quo, possibly forever. How successful this endeavour will be, remains to be seen but with chip making, they're certainly well on the way to being self sufficient.

I'd be curious to learn of how the profits from said chips with be shared. That's research homework for another day because for now, best I start getting ready for "rum rations" and the ANZAC dawn service.

 

[Knobby22]

China tells Trump if you want trade talks, drop the tariffs.

China tells Trump: If you want trade talks, cancel tariffs

China denies any trade talks with the US as it calls for sweeping tariffs to be cancelled.

www.bbc.com

 

[over9k]

I would hazard a guess that the US of A desperately wants the chips to be all built on it's own soil thus, not having to defend (or even worry about defending) an island on the other side of the Pacific. All without military conflict.

Bingo.

Everything we're seeing now was set in motion quite some time ago. Hence me saying, trump is only accelerating what was already happening.

 

[IFocus]

Baby bust, housing bubble, overcredited, and incredibly vulnerable geography.

Think about this for a second - china gets on anyone's **** list, it has south korea, japan, mongolia, vietnam, taiwan, the philippines, burma, and russia along its land or sea borders.

The japs have been sailing across the east china sea and slaughtering them for centuries. And that's from a sea invasion, far harder than just driving your tanks across the border and blowing everything to pieces. Hell, the japs could just fly a bunch of bombers over and bomb the daylights out of them right now if they wanted. So could the koreans.

Meanwhile, to land a single boot or bullet on american soil you have to cross half the pacific ocean, take what will be an incredibly heavily defended hawaii that is also serving as a land base/support for the american navy (which could take you on long before you got anywhere near hawaii) and then the air force as it's effectively an unsinkable aircraft carrier, and then cross the other half of the pacific ocean.

The only thing china can even think about doing is taking taiwan and the fact is that the taiwanese would burn every chip facility to the ground long before the chinese actually took it (and that's assuming that the yanks didn't just cover it with about a million missile batteries shooting down or sinking anything that came anywhere near it) so they wouldn't actually be capturing anything so much as just preventing the rest of the world from having it, thereby accomplishing nothing.

China and North Korea are nuclear states that changes the dynamics some what the US could military interrupt raw materials into China (wouldn't be able to totally stop it totally) but that's what brought Japan into WWII.

 

[sptrawler]

China tells Trump if you want trade talks, drop the tariffs.

China tells Trump: If you want trade talks, cancel tariffs

China denies any trade talks with the US as it calls for sweeping tariffs to be cancelled.

www.bbc.com

Which he will have to do, as I said before IMO the U.S currently is in the strongest position to negotiate right now, it will be all downhill from here for the West, unless it gets China to play ball.

In reality it might already be too little too late IMO, as China grows its Asian market, it becomes less and less dependent on sales to the West, then our currencies will certainly be challenged.
If or when they become the only place to source our junk, they can dictate what we will have to pay for it, especially if they don't need to sell it to us.

As we keep saying time will tell, but it certainly is interesting times.

China has an army of robots on its side in the tariff war

Enormous investments in factory equipment and artificial intelligence are giving China an edge in car manufacturing and other industries.

www.smh.com.au

Ningbo, China: China’s secret weapon in the trade war is an army of factory robots, powered by artificial intelligence, that have revolutionised manufacturing.

Factories are being automated across China at a breakneck pace. With engineers and electricians tending to fleets of robots, these operations are bringing down the cost of manufacturing while improving quality.

As a result, China’s factories will be able to keep the price of many of its exports lower, giving it an advantage in fighting the trade war and President Donald Trump’s high tariffs. China is also facing new trade barriers by the European Union and developing countries ranging from Brazil and India to Turkey and Thailand.
Factories are more automated in China than in the United States, Germany or Japan. China has more factory robots for every 10,000 manufacturing workers than any other country except South Korea or Singapore, according to the International Federation of Robotics.

China’s automation drive has been guided by government directives and backed with huge investment. As robots replace workers, automation positions China to continue to dominate mass production even as its labor force ages and becomes less willing to take industrial jobs.
Loading
He Liang, founder and CEO of Yunmu Intelligent Manufacturing, one of China’s top producers of humanoid robots, said China was striving next to turn robotics into an entire new sector of business.
“The expectation for humanoid robots is to create another electric car industry,” he said. “So from this perspective, it is a national strategy.”

 

[sptrawler]

Meanwhile, to land a single boot or bullet on american soil you have to cross half the pacific ocean, take what will be an incredibly heavily defended hawaii that is also serving as a land base/support for the american navy (which could take you on long before you got anywhere near hawaii) and then the air force as it's effectively an unsinkable aircraft carrier, and then cross the other half of the pacific ocean.

Unless they cross the Bering Strait:

The Bering Strait, at its narrowest point, spans approximately 82 kilometers (51 miles) wide between Cape Dezhnev in Russia and Cape Prince of Wales in Alaska. This strait separates Asia and North America, connecting the Chukchi Sea (part of the Arctic Ocean) to the north and the Bering Sea to the south.

 

[DannyB0000]

Which he will have to do, as I said before IMO the U.S currently is in the strongest position to negotiate right now, it will be all downhill from here for the West, unless it gets China to play ball.

In reality it might already be too little too late IMO, as China grows its Asian market, it becomes less and less dependent on sales to the West, then our currencies will certainly be challenged.
If or when they become the only place to source our junk, they can dictate what we will have to pay for it, especially if they don't need to sell it to us.

As we keep saying time will tell, but it certainly is interesting times.

China has an army of robots on its side in the tariff war

Enormous investments in factory equipment and artificial intelligence are giving China an edge in car manufacturing and other industries.

www.smh.com.au

Ningbo, China: China’s secret weapon in the trade war is an army of factory robots, powered by artificial intelligence, that have revolutionised manufacturing.

Factories are being automated across China at a breakneck pace. With engineers and electricians tending to fleets of robots, these operations are bringing down the cost of manufacturing while improving quality.

As a result, China’s factories will be able to keep the price of many of its exports lower, giving it an advantage in fighting the trade war and President Donald Trump’s high tariffs. China is also facing new trade barriers by the European Union and developing countries ranging from Brazil and India to Turkey and Thailand.
Factories are more automated in China than in the United States, Germany or Japan. China has more factory robots for every 10,000 manufacturing workers than any other country except South Korea or Singapore, according to the International Federation of Robotics.

China’s automation drive has been guided by government directives and backed with huge investment. As robots replace workers, automation positions China to continue to dominate mass production even as its labor force ages and becomes less willing to take industrial jobs.
Loading
He Liang, founder and CEO of Yunmu Intelligent Manufacturing, one of China’s top producers of humanoid robots, said China was striving next to turn robotics into an entire new sector of business.
“The expectation for humanoid robots is to create another electric car industry,” he said. “So from this perspective, it is a national strategy.”

China already pays its factory workers peanuts and they still want to replace them with robots ?, talking about greed.

 

[sptrawler]

China already pays its factory workers peanuts and they still want to replace them with robots ?, talking about greed.

That's true and IMO why it has to be done now, China and Asia really don't have enough rich consumers yet, so they are still dependant on selling to rich Western countries.

As China keeps industrialising, the people become more and more affluent and can buy more of their own production.

Once they don't need to sell their manufactured goods to the West, because Asia can afford to buy it, they can start and dictate the price as they will be the only source.

A bit simplistic, but that's how monopolies start, shut down the competition, then crank your price.

 

[Knobby22]

Which he will have to do, as I said before IMO the U.S currently is in the strongest position to negotiate right now, it will be all downhill from here for the West, unless it gets China to play ball.

In reality it might already be too little too late IMO, as China grows its Asian market, it becomes less and less dependent on sales to the West, then our currencies will certainly be challenged.
If or when they become the only place to source our junk, they can dictate what we will have to pay for it, especially if they don't need to sell it to us.

As we keep saying time will tell, but it certainly is interesting times.

China has an army of robots on its side in the tariff war

Enormous investments in factory equipment and artificial intelligence are giving China an edge in car manufacturing and other industries.

www.smh.com.au

Ningbo, China: China’s secret weapon in the trade war is an army of factory robots, powered by artificial intelligence, that have revolutionised manufacturing.

Factories are being automated across China at a breakneck pace. With engineers and electricians tending to fleets of robots, these operations are bringing down the cost of manufacturing while improving quality.

As a result, China’s factories will be able to keep the price of many of its exports lower, giving it an advantage in fighting the trade war and President Donald Trump’s high tariffs. China is also facing new trade barriers by the European Union and developing countries ranging from Brazil and India to Turkey and Thailand.
Factories are more automated in China than in the United States, Germany or Japan. China has more factory robots for every 10,000 manufacturing workers than any other country except South Korea or Singapore, according to the International Federation of Robotics.

China’s automation drive has been guided by government directives and backed with huge investment. As robots replace workers, automation positions China to continue to dominate mass production even as its labor force ages and becomes less willing to take industrial jobs.
Loading
He Liang, founder and CEO of Yunmu Intelligent Manufacturing, one of China’s top producers of humanoid robots, said China was striving next to turn robotics into an entire new sector of business.
“The expectation for humanoid robots is to create another electric car industry,” he said. “So from this perspective, it is a national strategy.”

Trump had the cards but he has severely weakened his position and let China dictate terms.
I'm with Musk about his opinion of his economic advisor (called him a moron).

No, White House is NOT upset with Elon Musk calling Donald Trump's trade adviser Peter Navarro 'Dumb and Moron', says: 'Boys will be Boys' - The Times of India

TECH NEWS : The White House has responded to Elon Musk's harsh criticism of Donald Trump's economic advisor, Peter Navarro, downplaying the feud as a disagreement

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[sptrawler]

Trump had the cards but he has severely weakened his position and let China dictate terms.
I'm with Musk about his opinion of his trade advisor.

No, White House is NOT upset with Elon Musk calling Donald Trump's trade adviser Peter Navarro 'Dumb and Moron', says: 'Boys will be Boys' - The Times of India

TECH NEWS : The White House has responded to Elon Musk's harsh criticism of Donald Trump's economic advisor, Peter Navarro, downplaying the feud as a disagreement

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

IMO Trump only got the ball rolling, he wont be negotiating, he wont be anywhere near smart enough.
The good thing is, the situation has been brought to a head, on the trajectory things were going,the West would have had no bargaining power in the very near future.

Just look where China has gone from and to, in the last 20 years, the industrialisation and modernisation that has been carried out is astounding, but the rise will be faster now the fundamentals are established.

Their manufacturing and infrastructure has been established in the last 20 years, so it is all current state of the art, the U.S will still have a lot of old legacy left over outdated manufacturing tech and infrastructure.

As can be seen by the rush to relocate the Taiwan chip manufacturing to the U.S, the U.S doesn't have it, they built it in Taiwan.
As I said, IMO unless something is done now, the West is toast.

Again only in my opinion, but I think a huge amount of the reporting going on ATM,is white noise to distract from the main game in play.

There will be a lot of manufacturers that don't want to change anything, they wont care who buys their product be it Asians or Westerners, as long as their profit margin and volume is maintained.
So if the West slides and the East rises, it wont matter to them one bit.
Only my two cents worth.

 

[basilio]

She's talking rubbish. The reason the working class and middle class is destroyed is not about manufacturing.

We know this is not true because Australia also has lost most of its manufacturing base but not our middle class. In the USA, there has been a redistribution of wealth by lowering wages and redirecting more profits to the wealthy.

That said China has to be told to back down and limited.

Unfortunately due to stupidity they now have advantage which they didn't have 6 months ago.

Totally agree. Just a another loudmouth Trump sock puppet with his hand firmly up her derriere..

Having said that... the case for recognising and properly addressing the collapse of lower/middle class employment and opportunity is overwhelming. And not just in the US. We are in a very similar boat.

Excellent over view on the topic by Hugh Riminton. My selection is only a part of his perspective.

Watching the election from afar, I can’t help but wonder – is this really the best Australia can do?​

Hugh Riminton

With neither leader offering any serious structural reform, Australia is on a path that leads ultimately to the malaise that has befallen the US

.... The depth of dismality (my word, but feel free to use it) stems from this: Albanese and Dutton, and a reasonable proportion of the people around them, know that Australia is slowly being cooked. They know that without fundamental, sensible reforms, Australia is on the early stages of the structural path that leads ultimately towards the malaise that has befallen America. Albanese, Dutton and those around them have concluded that pushing said reforms presents risks to their current employment or their hopes of future advances.

Call that modern politics. Former Treasurer secretary Ken Henry calls it a “wilful act of bastardry”. And he’s right to call it intergenerational robbery.

So we mark time.

Unless the incoming pope declares Catholicism compulsory and birth control verboten, Australia will never again be a society that is not weighted towards the aged. Jobs in the care economy, often taken up by migrants from poorer countries, are important jobs. But despite important pay increases supported by Labor, they remain relatively lowly paid. The people working them face a potential lifetime of being cut out of the heavily distorted housing market. So will anyone else unable to take up former treasurer Joe Hockey’s famously glib advice to “get a good job that pays good money”.

........Trump’s rise in America comes from a series of fundamental societal shifts. For decades the American “heartland” was dying, a trend accelerated by the shift – “offshoring” – of manufacturing to China, to Mexico and elsewhere. Between 2010 and 2020, the US census records more than half the counties in America LOST population. That drift was largest in the so-called red states – traditional Republican party country in the midwest, great plains and the south.

The Trump contest was played out most obviously with the Democrats, but the political movement most extinguished were traditional, conservative Republicans. They are now almost gone from American public life. What drives the “Make America Great Again” movement, for all its contradictions and follies, is the restoration of hope in lives that had lost it. That hope will take some time to crumble before Americans realise the postwar manufacturing boom is never coming back, no matter what self-defeating games Trump plays with tariffs.

This is not to make a case for Trump but to sound a warning. Australia is engaged in a structural drift that will divide us into the property-holding and property-deprived classes. None of the political offerings does more than play with the edges, and half of them – super for deposits, shared equity schemes, etc – simply add to the demand side, pushing prices still higher.

Once that hope is lost, the ground will become ripe for populism, and divisions will start to bake in. The time to get moving is now. But it is already clear 2025 is not the year, or the cycle, that will see it happen.

Sometimes taking a break is useful, just to see what’s staring you in the face.

Watching the election from afar, I can’t help but wonder – is this really the best Australia can do? | Hugh Riminton

With neither leader offering any serious structural reform, Australia is on a path that leads ultimately to the malaise that has befallen the US

www.theguardian.com

 

[basilio]

A sign of the times. Let me count the ways..

 

[basilio]

How do we compete with this range of goods at these prices ?

 

[sptrawler]

She's talking rubbish. The reason the working class and middle class is destroyed is not about manufacturing.

We know this is not true because Australia also has lost most of its manufacturing base but not our middle class. In the USA, there has been a redistribution of wealth by lowering wages and redirecting more profits to the wealthy.

That said China has to be told to back down and limited.

Unfortunately due to stupidity they now have advantage which they didn't have 6 months ago.

Why we didn't lose our middle class and the U.S did, but also why we will follow the U.S unless things change.

That's because we went along with the U.S sent our manufacturing to China in the period from about 1980 to 2010, China required a huge amount of raw materials from Australia. The mining money kept our economy afloat, but we aren't making raw materials we are just digging them up and shipping them.

The only large growth in middle class jobs in Australia has been in the service industries, which doesn't bring money in, it just circulates our money.
The U.S was affected by the manufacturing, because they didn't have the raw material base to sell but didn't lose as much manufacturing to China.
The U.S still manufactures 15% of the Worlds output, but that is fast falling as China's output and quality rises. The U.S has blown the globalisation money on wars and other crap like making the rich richer and the poor poorer IMO.

This is the 1980 to 2010 era for Australia.

Structural Change in the Australian Economy | Bulletin – September 2010

www.rba.gov.au

Global manufacturing and the start of globalisation 1973 - 2008




Australia's exports by industry 1975 - 2010



Mining activity in Australia 1960 - 2010


Australian employment by industry to 2010

Conclusion​

The structure of the Australian economy has shifted over time away from agriculture and manufacturing towards services. Structural change has tended to occur in waves, driven by a range of factors including rising demand for services, the industrialisation of east Asia, economic reform and technical change. In recent years, the mining sector has also grown in importance, contributing to the expansion of the resource-rich states of Queensland and Western Australia relative to the south-eastern states. The mining boom has also led to an increase in the rate of structural change, particularly when measured in terms of nominal output and investment.

SO NOW TO THE PRESENT IN AUSTRALIA 2023 :
We can only go off projections supplied by the Government and not wanting to be doom and gloom, just wanting to strike a discussion point, that isn't based on what MSN is serving up today for chook consumption.

https://www.industry.gov.au/publications/resources-and-energy-quarterly-june-2023

 

[TimeISmoney]

Totally agree. Just a another loudmouth Trump sock puppet with his hand firmly up her derriere..

Having said that... the case for recognising and properly addressing the collapse of lower/middle class employment and opportunity is overwhelming. And not just in the US. We are in a very similar boat.

Excellent over view on the topic by Hugh Riminton. My selection is only a part of his perspective.

Watching the election from afar, I can’t help but wonder – is this really the best Australia can do?​

Hugh Riminton

With neither leader offering any serious structural reform, Australia is on a path that leads ultimately to the malaise that has befallen the US

.... The depth of dismality (my word, but feel free to use it) stems from this: Albanese and Dutton, and a reasonable proportion of the people around them, know that Australia is slowly being cooked. They know that without fundamental, sensible reforms, Australia is on the early stages of the structural path that leads ultimately towards the malaise that has befallen America. Albanese, Dutton and those around them have concluded that pushing said reforms presents risks to their current employment or their hopes of future advances.

Call that modern politics. Former Treasurer secretary Ken Henry calls it a “wilful act of bastardry”. And he’s right to call it intergenerational robbery.

So we mark time.

Unless the incoming pope declares Catholicism compulsory and birth control verboten, Australia will never again be a society that is not weighted towards the aged. Jobs in the care economy, often taken up by migrants from poorer countries, are important jobs. But despite important pay increases supported by Labor, they remain relatively lowly paid. The people working them face a potential lifetime of being cut out of the heavily distorted housing market. So will anyone else unable to take up former treasurer Joe Hockey’s famously glib advice to “get a good job that pays good money”.

........Trump’s rise in America comes from a series of fundamental societal shifts. For decades the American “heartland” was dying, a trend accelerated by the shift – “offshoring” – of manufacturing to China, to Mexico and elsewhere. Between 2010 and 2020, the US census records more than half the counties in America LOST population. That drift was largest in the so-called red states – traditional Republican party country in the midwest, great plains and the south.

The Trump contest was played out most obviously with the Democrats, but the political movement most extinguished were traditional, conservative Republicans. They are now almost gone from American public life. What drives the “Make America Great Again” movement, for all its contradictions and follies, is the restoration of hope in lives that had lost it. That hope will take some time to crumble before Americans realise the postwar manufacturing boom is never coming back, no matter what self-defeating games Trump plays with tariffs.

This is not to make a case for Trump but to sound a warning. Australia is engaged in a structural drift that will divide us into the property-holding and property-deprived classes. None of the political offerings does more than play with the edges, and half of them – super for deposits, shared equity schemes, etc – simply add to the demand side, pushing prices still higher.

Once that hope is lost, the ground will become ripe for populism, and divisions will start to bake in. The time to get moving is now. But it is already clear 2025 is not the year, or the cycle, that will see it happen.

Sometimes taking a break is useful, just to see what’s staring you in the face.

Watching the election from afar, I can’t help but wonder – is this really the best Australia can do? | Hugh Riminton

With neither leader offering any serious structural reform, Australia is on a path that leads ultimately to the malaise that has befallen the US

www.theguardian.com

I can tell that a lot of people on here have never worked hands-on in manufacturing long term for a private enterprise. No one in their right mind would choose to get out of bed to be on a production line for the minimum wage so that the rest of Australia can sit back and enjoy a cheap Australian-made product. On top of this they get abandoned by the health care system when they're old and wrecked to end their life even faster.

People want this manufacturing in Australia, great, let their kids do the hard work and see if the participation award they got at school holds up. I can't even get anyone to mow 40 square meters of lawn for under $50, let alone a good hard day's work at a foundry, in front of a hot furnace all day. They'll have to reverse 90% of the OH&S laws and pay rates so that anyone can afford what they're making, otherwise it will be the rich buying most of it as it was years ago.

Australia needed to develop Tech and future industries years ago, but they sat on the ball doing nothing with hordes of money from mining. When you go over to places like Perth, you see it all in the repossession yards, ready to be sold at 1/2 of the original cost.

 

[basilio]

I can tell that a lot of people on here have never worked hands-on in manufacturing long term for a private enterprise. No one in their right mind would choose to get out of bed to be on a production line for the minimum wage so that the rest of Australia can sit back and enjoy a cheap Australian-made product. On top of this they get abandoned by the health care system when they're old and wrecked to end their life even faster.

People want this manufacturing in Australia, great, let their kids do the hard work and see if the participation award they got at school holds up. I can't even get anyone to mow 40 square meters of lawn for under $50, let alone a good hard day's work at a foundry, in front of a hot furnace all day. They'll have to reverse 90% of the OH&S laws and pay rates so that anyone can afford what they're making, otherwise it will be the rich buying most of it as it was years ago.

Australia needed to develop Tech and future industries years ago, but they sat on the ball doing nothing with hordes of money from mining. When you go over to places like Perth, you see it all in the repossession yards, ready to be sold at 1/2 of the original cost.

Totally agree. I worked in a range of factory production line jobs when I was young. Car assembly lines, chemicals factory, bottle shops ect. All good "experience" so to speak but not something I wanted to do for the rest of my life.

We can't go back to good/bad old days. As you point out many industrial jobs were dangerous, dirty and not well paid. It does raise the question of what new jobs will look like ? Unfortunately with AI and industrial automation moving at its current pace I am struggling to see good solutions.

I quoted Hugh Riminton because I believe he identified the challenges and despair of a generation working on low wages and unable to own their own home unless they inherited it.

 

[basilio]

In the good ole USA of course there is a Trump led recovery plan.
Check out the merch.

https://www.trumpstore.com/product/trump-2028-shirt/?attribute_pa_size=small&attribute_pa_color=red

 

[waterbottle]

https://v.redd.it/jwso11k32xwe1

Sometimes the degens post painful truths

 

[basilio]

A sign of the times. Let me count the ways..

View attachment 198190

1) The cat is now the most important party of the a family. Not the kids, a baby, Mum or dad. The purty cat is Queen

2) You can buy this neat little 30cm x 20 cm metal sign for $4.99 !! WTF . Who gets out of bed for that ?

3) So far 5000 plus people in Australia have bought this piece of joy.

4) It comes with Free Shipping !

I haven't shopped on Temu. But I can understand how one could become addicted to click and collect with the range of stuff.

Temu | Explore the Latest Clothing, Beauty, Home, Jewelry & More

www.temu.com

 

[sptrawler]

I can tell that a lot of people on here have never worked hands-on in manufacturing long term for a private enterprise. No one in their right mind would choose to get out of bed to be on a production line for the minimum wage so that the rest of Australia can sit back and enjoy a cheap Australian-made product. On top of this they get abandoned by the health care system when they're old and wrecked to end their life even faster.

People want this manufacturing in Australia, great, let their kids do the hard work and see if the participation award they got at school holds up. I can't even get anyone to mow 40 square meters of lawn for under $50, let alone a good hard day's work at a foundry, in front of a hot furnace all day. They'll have to reverse 90% of the OH&S laws and pay rates so that anyone can afford what they're making, otherwise it will be the rich buying most of it as it was years ago.

Australia needed to develop Tech and future industries years ago, but they sat on the ball doing nothing with hordes of money from mining. When you go over to places like Perth, you see it all in the repossession yards, ready to be sold at 1/2 of the original cost.

Spot on and we have educational standards falling, while we import tradespeople to build houses for our unemployed workers.

Meanwhile we have politicians, making promises of spending more money on crap, while we have a trillion dollars debt, go figure.

i guess we can just smugly criticise the U.K and U.S, for the mess they have got themselves in, unlike us.