War threat in Ukraine

JohnDe said:

You reminded me of an old quote - "We, too, born to freedom, and believing in freedom, are willing to fight to maintain freedom. We, and all others who believe as deeply as we do, would rather die on our feet than live on our knees."

Interesting article in the Weekend Australian, I don't agree with all of it but there is sense in some of it.

"More than 50 million people died in World War II. Would it have been better to let the Nazis rule Europe and Imperial Japan run Asia to avoid those deaths?"

"Ukraine, Taiwan are connected: we can’t show weakness over either
The two conflicts are intimately connected. While they have their differences, they share striking similarities, not least that they will have a big effect on Australian security."

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/putins-ukraine-gamble-raises-the-danger-for-taiwan/news-story/9478ba0342a80630ffc102d5172518eb

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divs4ever said:

Ukraine is a failed state , i very much doubt the EU , NATO , US will do any more than continue to use it as a laundromat

now Putin might be caught between loyalty to the ethnic Russians and leaving it to become a poison pill to NATO , EU , IMF , and Putin can be pragmatic , some news reports show Russia busing out refugees ( and using trains as well as buses ) will ALL the ethnic Russians evacuate and leave a trail of sabotage and traps or resist with gusto ( now they don't have to worry about family and friends )

remember the US destabilized the Ukraine back in 2013/2014 they WANTED this , now they have their prize they had better chew like heck , expect Russia to mothball the Ukrainian gas pipeline ( claiming it is old and unsafe )

Taiwan is it's own fortress , would Japan and South Korea give material support if it is needed ( they are the key allies for Taiwan )

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Present-day Ukraine has been on the world map since 1991 when the Soviet Union disintegrated. It has elected six presidents since then and changed parties in government several times which illustrates political diversity and democratic dynamics even during economic hardship in the wake of Russian aggression in 2014. Ukraine's Western partners have been providing it with financial and technical assistance.

Even though it sustained economic hardships due to the recession in the 1990s, world financial crisis in 2008-2009, the occupation of Crimea and war in Donbas, Ukraine has managed to improve its economy, conduct necessary reforms, attract investments in construction, banking, financial, and other sectors of economy. Its GPD grew by 2-3% in 2016-2019 and, it is estimated, will return to growth again in 2021 after a 4% loss in 2020. A key milestone was the entry into force of the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement between Ukraine and the EU, that simplifies access to markets and supports economic growth.

Since 2012 Ukraine has improved its abilities to combat corruption. Since 2014, the key anti-corruption institutions have been created. Ukraine has also implemented key legislation that prevents misuse of public money (electronic public procurement system established) and improves state governance (paperless governance, improved administrative services for citizens).

Ukraine is not a failed state, as pro-Kremlin media often claim. It is not controlled by the US or NATO, nor by any other foreign government or organisation. However, Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity are violated by Russia's acts of armed aggression.

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JohnDe said:

"Ukraine is not Afghanistan. It is a proud nation with functioning institutions, rough democratic legitimacy and enough social cohesion to stand up for itself...." Putin's Ukraine gamble

"Ukraine is not a failed state, as pro-Kremlin media often claim. It is not controlled by the US or NATO, nor by any other foreign government or organisation. However, Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity are violated by Russia's acts of armed aggression." Recurring pro-Kremlin disinformation narratives about Ukrainian statehood

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divs4ever said:

tell all that to Joe Biden .. he seems to think it is his cash cow , the Brits think it is a crime scene , Putin is litigating over a loan given in 2013 , so he thinks it is a dead-beat

i wouldn't be surprised to find the Clintions were using it for arms-trafficking ( 2014 and now )

i don't have to listen to the Kremlin there were enough dots discovered in the Trump impeachment hearing to show something monstrously illegal was happening in 'liberated ' Ukraine , and that completely avoided human-trafficking and using it as a training base for international mercenaries

BTW Afghanistan has a lot more to be proud of in history , it isn't called the 'graveyard of empires ' as a ridicule .. and may yet be the graveyard of the US as well ( they will have to do something to push back China exploiting all those minerals .. that the West needs )

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JohnDe said:

Yes, the X Files was a great show. Loved the fictional conspiracy theories, sad it ended. What number did you get to?

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JohnDe said:

We’ve been saying it since the 90’s, but the previous generation are holding on too tight

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frugal.rock said:

Fake news/ tweet above?

From the SMH 12:35pm today ESDST

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frugal.rock said:

Fake news/ tweet above?

From the SMH 12:35pm today ESDST

View attachment 137889

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CityIndex said:

Reports are now suggesting that Putin a decree recognising the two breakaway regions in Ukraine as independent.

It'll be important to watch whether EU now responds with any sanctions on Russia, or if the Biden-Putin meeting gets called off. Things look like they could boil over at the moment.

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