The urge to always do something related to trading

[darkhorse70]

Just wondering how many hours a day people on here do stuff related to trading. More so the people who are at the more elote side of trading or who want to be. Personally I get the feeling that if I dont read a book or look over my charts that im a failure or my dreams will crumble or im not doing enough. I work every day since recently and ive been deeply effected by anxiety recently. To the point where I felt like I was losing my sanity. Im getting that under control but the fact that I also got kicked out of uni makes me feel that I have to develop my knowledge of trading at the rate that my peers are fmgetting educated in their fields. I fear this sense of urgency is detrimental to my trading. Ive got a diary and have picked a few stocks, got a hypothesis of the general market conditions and have set predictions for what I think will happen. More like paper trading. For example would jesse livermore hone in on a stock, strike then let it be or was he constantpy in a manic depressive state. I have this attitude that I cant succeed in this field unless im pushing my self to spens 1 hours a day thinking about trading. Any thoughts on this?

 

[darkhorse70]

Re: the urge to always do sometthing related to trading

10hrs a day*

 

[cynic]

Re: the urge to always do sometthing related to trading

There was a time in my earlier days where I felt that I'd exhausted the full range of readily available possibilities for profitable futures trading.

On that occasion, I resigned myself to the seeming inevitability of defeat, and ceased brainstorming.

Much to my surprise, new ideas and perspectives effortlessly popped into my head. I then had a fresh new approach to the task that I'd set myself!

The brainstorming was certainly important for programming my mind to seek a solution.The respite was also important as it enabled me to recieve the resultant solution.

 

[Value Collector]

Re: the urge to always do sometthing related to trading

I actually only buy shares a few times per year, and I sell a few puts every couple of months, so I don't spend a lot of time "trading"

But, I do spend a lot of time learning, If I have stuff I am working on I can easily spend 3hours a day researching and reading. I will generally spend a lot of time learning about different industries I am thinking of investing in learning how the basic economics of that industry work, supply and demand factors, future tech advances etc.

Then I will generally research the individual company I am looking at, eg go over a few annual reports, watch interviews and news items about the company, get a feel for their products, etc etc

Then if I think I understand the industry, understand the company, think they have a strong position in the industry and are good value, i will buy some, then I will just hold them as an investment.

I don't worry about TA charting of anything like that, I focus on understanding businesses, and buying good ones cheap, and letting them do the work for me over time, no need for excessive trading.

 

[darkhorse70]

Re: the urge to always do sometthing related to trading

Haha cynic, im going to have to take a screen shot of your comment. Ill have to read it now and then when I feel overwhelmed. Its actually great advice haha. I feel like my learning curve has plateaued and im not getting new ideas or thoughts. Im just going through the same books and quotes and trying to imprint important principles into my head. Value collector, my fundamental analysis is shamefull. Maybe its the fact that accounting was very boring for me personally. In reality I should start increasing my understanding of it. I definitely cant be an intra day trader. It drives me nuts. On the asx game in about a month I think at the peak I was up 2k and I had also accumilated 2k worth of brokerage fees hahahaha. Im definitely going to only trade 2/3 times a year. My basic process of thought is that if I want to be better than the next then I presume that I have to study or practice more than him assuming our quality of study is equivalent. I enjoy charts just because its exciting finding patterns which repeat in other charts and resting their validity. I guess like yoou said cynic just take it easy and let it flow to you when you feel drained. Thanks guys

 

[AussieMatt]

I know its hard to do but take your time, learn, be patient, its not a sprint. the hardest thing I learned was patience. Knowing when not to trade is just as important. its like building a house, work on the foundation, learn what works and slowly build concepts on top of each other until you have confidence in what the thing will look like. There are also many ways to trade and you need to explore what suits your mentality and personality this may take years and I think a trader is always learning/growing. Its a process.

Best of luck.

 

[burglar]

Walk on the beach!
Eat brown rice.

Know it will get easier.

 

[darkhorse70]

Aussiematt I agree with what your saying. The problem is theres no one to set the pace or that I can compare myself to. Its like how slow do you take it. At school tyerea a curriculum. In this world theres no rules. You truly do find your true innerself at the end of this I hope haha by learning to understand your flaws and strengths. Haha burgular maybe a fishing session. Need to hook on a monster. Actually going to go fish now hahaha. Thanks guys

 

[darkhorse70]

Twitter hit my predicted targets. So im sort of buzzin right now hahaha

 

[pinkboy]

When I feel the urge to trade, I slap myself in the face, head down to the local pub, drink lots and blow my mula on the ponies or the pokies. Usually cures that terrible urge to trade! *

*Note I don't drink, I don't go to pubs and I don't gamble, and this was merely my dry sense of humour that got the better of me. Don't try this at home folks, and I in no way encourage such behaviour. Trade responsibly.




pinkboy

 

[Value Collector]

Aussiematt I agree with what your saying. The problem is theres no one to set the pace or that I can compare myself to. Its like how slow do you take it. At school tyerea a curriculum. In this world theres no rules. You truly do find your true innerself at the end of this I hope haha by learning to understand your flaws and strengths. Haha burgular maybe a fishing session. Need to hook on a monster. Actually going to go fish now hahaha. Thanks guys

you can go as fast as your brain can absorb (and retain) information. It took me ages to read Ben Grahams security analysis, Because I found my self reading it slowly and rereading parts because I wanted to make sure I got ever precious pearl of information Ben was trying to convey, I would often finish a chapter and just lay there and think about what the lesson means based on todays market. But you have to make sure your learning the correct information.

Your not in a race against anyone, Your in a solo round the world hike, where the goal is finishing, it doesn't matter if it takes you 5 years or 10 years, you just have to be steadily heading in the right direction, avoiding traps, and enjoying the ride.

If you develop a sound investment policy that works for you, it will take time to see the fruits, Its very true when people say your first million is the hardest one to make, but as long as you keep compounding you will get there.

 

[darkhorse70]

VC I find myself always going back to read books just because yea I feel its so hard to absorb all that information. I feel like im still in some sort of race to get there. My friends are about to finish law degrees, engineering degrees, some have finished business degrees. It feels like I have a lot resting on this and in the end of the day ive never been able to play the political bs game in the corporate world. I was never a good actor haha. I just want to make some bread and butter from this industry and I actually really enjoy studying the markets. I want to atleast be good at one pursuit in my life. It would feel like a million tonnes unloading off my shoulders if I knew im on the right track. My first goal is to make a few grand with minimal draw downs haha. A million is a long long long way away haha. The one thing that a psychologist has taught me regarding my anxiety is just to let go of all the negative thoughts and focus on one task at a time. Hey what do you know a good thing has come out of that whole experience haha. I got to buy that book written by Ben Graham. I think a shop in homebush has it. Sick of ordering things online takes ages to come. It should mix up my routine a bit.

 

[Julia]

Maybe its the fact that accounting was very boring for me personally. In reality I should start increasing my understanding of it.

Not necessarily. That's just one approach. I find detailed fundamental analysis as boring as bat****.

. Im definitely going to only trade 2/3 times a year.

Perhaps rather consider buying or selling when there is a good reason to do one or the other, instead of setting arbitrary time markers.
You say you like charts. You might find Stan Weinstein's "Secrets for profiting in Bull and Bear Markets" interesting and useful. It was like that light bulb moment for me. Explains in easy to comprehend language how to use basic trend following.

You mention a psychologist. Have you discussed with him/her that your anxiety, almost panic, about the market is just another symptom of generalised anxiety?
In reality, you're very young, you have decades ahead of you to gradually discover what works for you.
On another thread you talked about this forum being intimidating. Then you agreed with the suggestion that it's not this forum, but it's that whole huge- feeling sense of being intimidated by what you don't know about the market that's really the problem.

Perhaps try to accept that we've all felt similarly at some stage. I still regularly, after some decades, feel absolutely conscious of what I don't know, of how many areas there are where I lack understanding.

I don't know what suggestions your psychologist has made, but there are many studies which show sustained, intense exercise is one of the best ways of dispelling anxiety. Physiologically it releases endorphins which allow you to feel calm, and just the sense of being physically tired is relaxing in itself. Find a pleasant place and run, walk fast, do whatever you enjoy most. For many it represents a form of active meditation, the passive version of which is usually impossible for people like you (and me) who are twitchy and restless.

And maybe have a think about feeling so competitive with your peers. We all develop in different time frames.
Some flourish early but fade in middle age. Others take a while to find out where they feel OK. You just have to be yourself, not a copy of someone else.

PS If I could just make one request, dh70? If you'd break up your longer posts into paragraphs it would make them so much easier to read.

 

[burglar]

... PS If I could just make one request, dh70? If you'd break up your longer posts into paragraphs it would make them so much easier to read.

I don't know what gets you on song, Julia.

In this post, you did not decry detailed fundamental analysis, ... too much.
Nor did you push trend following, ... too hard.

You did address his main problem!!

Well done!

@ DH70

Do your exercise in sunshine, whenever you can.
It'll boost your seratonin levels.

 

[Value Collector]

I don't know what suggestions your psychologist has made, but there are many studies which show sustained, intense exercise is one of the best ways of dispelling anxiety. Physiologically it releases endorphins which allow you to feel calm, and just the sense of being physically tired is relaxing in itself. Find a pleasant place and run, walk fast, do whatever you enjoy most.

+1

I enjoy the calmness of a kayak, nothing distresses me like a kayak up my local river, the water, the birds and a vegemite and cheese sandwich with a coke in the park does wonders.

the lack of human distractions and noise restores my clarity of mind.

 

[darkhorse70]

Haha pinkboy, while I was at college me and my friends use to go to the tab and bet on dogs haha. It was fun but I soon realised that I can have as much fun watching my friends bet while I save my money. If they won id get a free meal if they lost it was a good show hahaha. Julia my point about trading 2/3 times a year was more in the sense that I would imagine that you could find a handfull of oppurtunities worth trading in a 12month period. Maybe it could be less or more but yeah I meant only when the time is right. I talked to her about the markets and my trading ambitions. Its probably the worst career to oursue when youve got generalized anxiety haha unless I can detach emotion from trading which is really how it shoukd be approached. Im intimitdated by the whole aspect of theres so much to learn, is what the others are posting correct or incorrect and if they are bullish and im bearish then its conflicting and raises doubt wothin myself.

Ive been weight lifting for 2 years. I was pretty skinny and have battled the challenge of gaining weight. Now I know how to overcome that but my phycologist has advised me just to set goals for myself. Since then ive got a job, one step towards my trading career and she actually has just taught me to realise that the thoughts that pop up in my head are just thoughts and just to pursue my desires or goals without being stopped because of fear. My anxiety has always been around but I had a neck injury and I completely lost touch with reality. In that I mean the idea that reality is what you want it to be. We just have complete faith in what we feel,see and touch etc that we dont question beyond. For example what follows death, whats lifes purpose etc all just over whelmed me and I was lost in thought. I sort of couldnt handle it. It was scary since ive always been a happy care free guy but I think its something thats better to deal with now.

I was actually saying to my friend today as we fishes we need to buy a kayak. We want to sail down lane cove river into the harbour haha. Thabks for the advice julia and oh yeah ill have to remember to make parapgraphs.

Burgular haha, I was the happiest from all my friends. I stah away from drugs but yeah a phobia creeped upon me and I felt like I would lose my stabdard of living. Its hard to explain till it happens to you. Now ill walk down the street and greet a stranger. I vowed if I got a second chance at life that nuthing would stop me. Haha

Haha vc I could settle for that or a dirt bike ride doin 100ks in mud. Both do wonders for the brain hahaha

 

[CanOz]

Darkhorse, if you are serious about trading then i really recommend you get into Propex in Sydney, Melbourne or the Gold Coast and find out if they're taking trainees. It'll save allot of time and rubbish. The talented few that can apply themselves have a chance at creating an enormous amount of wealth from trading...You wouldn't be doing yourself justice unless you gave it a try.

Its like playing pro football, you can be stuck in the amateurs, making some money, getting by...or you could enter the big leagues. IF the chance was there most would give it a shot while they're young...

Give it a go...

www.propex.net.au

 

[darkhorse70]

Canoz I actually went to a fumction at UNSW held by propex. This was 8 momths ago. At the time I didnt know who they were. I spoke to a few of their traders. I just havent applied as they need a real track record of you trading. Ill try applying once/if I get consistabt results. 100% they would fast track my or any bodies trading career. Atleast there youd have actual mentors guiding you the whole way.

 

[darkhorse70]

As well as unlimited capital if you could handle it haha. Theyve actually only started focusing on the equity market.

 

[CanOz]

every once in a while they take trainees, without a track record at all....