This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

The future of energy generation and storage

Well smurf, don't say, we told you so.
The really funny part is, it has only just started, wait untill they start a 15GW solar farm on sacred land. Lol
Bob and the boys, stopped onshore processing of LNG at James Price Point near Broome, it was going to cover 10 to 20 hectares. Cant wait to hear what they think about 5000hectares.
 
Some may think it's a waste of time to discuss, but research on nuclear fusion continues.
The holy grail, at this point apparently it uses more energy than it generates, but it will be great if it gets there. It is never a waste of time discussing new developments in energy generation. IMO

This kid is dedicating his future to nuclear research and development, he built a fusion reactor in his parents garage when he was 14 years old, or so the story goes.
He is a very interesting and engaging young man, he is now in his mid 20's.

 
Here is another Taylor Wilson clip, on where he thinks power generation will go, obviously there are some bright people working on it. The clip is a few years old, but it gives a bit of insight into his ideas.

 
All this Solar means we're all good for power during daylight hours.....how do we fill the gaps? I feel like we're going to be short on power between 5pm and 10pm.

 
All this Solar means we're all good for power during daylight hours.....how do we fill the gaps? I feel like we're going to be short on power between 5pm and 10pm.
Batteries, pumped hydro and wind farms, apparently.
 
All this Solar means we're all good for power during daylight hours.....how do we fill the gaps? I feel like we're going to be short on power between 5pm and 10pm.
If the solar is used to charge batteries or pump water up hill (or some other means of storage eg compressed air, running trains loaded with weights up mountains, etc) then we can use solar energy 24/7 but the key is actualy building those things.

Thus far the big problem is that we're closing things which can operate at any time of the day or night (eg coal but also others) but not actually replacing it with the pumped hydro or batteries etc. That then creates the situation as you describe - all good when it's sunny but a problem when it's not.

That diminishing ability to supply when it's not sunny or windy is what's causing so much angst among those aware of the technical aspects of the situation. It's not about an ideological opposition to wind and solar or that anyone loves coal, just that there's a very real technical problem if supply and demand don't match in real time and the ability to ensure this is being eroded since we're really only building one half of the new system - we're putting up the wind and solar farms and closing existing coal-fired generation a lot faster than we're putting in pumped hydro, batteries or other means of storage.
 
Gas & diesel too.
It would be fair to say that everyone is going to be watching to see how AGL operate their new facility at Barker Inlet (SA).

This consists of 12 internal combustion engines, 17.5 MW each, and they're capable of operating on either gas with diesel as the pilot fuel for ignition or on straight diesel. Efficiency is stated as about 44%, which is better than steam plant or open cycle gas turbines but inferior to combined cycle gas, and they're capable of starting up and getting to full load within a few minutes and likewise ramping back down again quickly.

Cost - AGL would know how they're going in practice but the plan is $295 million. Construction is well underway but not yet complete.

It's not experimental as such, the technology is all off the shelf and AGL have simply bought the equipment they haven't invented anything, but it'll be the only such facility in the National Electricity Market (much smaller ones exist at mines etc) so there's some general interest in terms of how it will be operated in practice which comes down largely to financial considerations.

Location is about 15km north-west of the Adelaide CBD (next to Torrens Island B power station also owned by AGL).
 
At last there seems to be a glimmer of common sense prevailing.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...r-battle-with-government-20190802-p52d6b.html

From the article:
AGL has delayed the closure of the Liddell power plant following a protracted dispute with the federal government over the lifespan of the ageing coal-fired facility.

The plant in NSW's Hunter Valley was scheduled to end operations in 2022, taking 1680 megawatts out of the grid. AGL has come under intense pressure over the plan, with the government warning the company to renovate the plant or sell it to ensure ongoing energy reliability
.
Also:
Earlier this year, Mr Taylor said the company had to either delay the closure, sell it to another energy provider or develop an alternative to secure adequate supply of reliable power.

A new "Retailer Reliability Obligation" came into effect from July 1, compelling energy providers to meet demand for "despatchable, 24/7 power" and outlining penalties for any breaches.


The company is continuing to work on a $1.36 billion plan to replace the power supply lost with the Liddell closure.

The three-phase plan includes an upgrade of the nearby Bayswater power plant, building 1600 megawatts of renewable generation capacity and 250 megawatts of battery storage over five years
.
 
At last there seems to be a glimmer of common sense prevailing
There's a bit going on behind the scenes and has been for a while......

What's announced publicly:

AGL will continue to operate three (of four) units at Liddell (NSW) until April 2023 with the first one closing in 2022. This follows an engineering assessment of the plant.

AGL has revised the planned closure dates for the four Torrens Island A units (SA) to two in September 2020 and one each in September 2021 and 2022. This will need approval from the SA state government on account of pollution given that it represents a change from the planning approvals granted in respect of the adjacent Barker Inlet power station, noting in particular that actually achieving simultaneous high output from the whole lot will require significant use of oil.

That said, I'd be highly surprised if permission wasn't granted given that it's more about compliance with permits than an actual environmental problem as such - it's not as though there's smoke belching out of the place and I doubt that government wants to cop the blame for the lights going out.

The "official" return to service for Loy Yang A2 (AGL) and for Mortlake (Origin) remains December 2019 but I'll offer my opinion that there aren't too many who are particularly confident since it's a rather ambitious target. That's not to say it's impossible, but it's an ambitious target given the scale of work required so there's a lot of doubts around and a thinking that the odds are at least one will be later in practice. Time will tell.
 

To highlight the issue, I mentioned in a previous post.
Here is an article of native title being tested retrospectively, with regard mining at Gove, so one would hope all these people installing these solar farms are doing their homework. It could become a very expensive excercise, paying compensation for dreaming.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08...-to-launch-compensation-mining-claim/11381034
 
Odd that the Coalition's inquiry into nuclear power generation announced last week got no traction here!
Anyway, if it was a good idea, the USA would now be building them across their nation, and they are not. Moreover, some recent builds have gone belly up.
Nuclear is only viable with multi billion dollar funding assistance from state players as the lead time for private sector operators to generate profits means carrying debt for far too long, and the risks are too great.
Nuclear would solve a baseload issue, however, doing the sums on the declining cost of battery backup suggests that it would never be able to compete with wind/solar/battery. Moreover, wind/solar/battery is scalable to locality whereas nuclear requires maximum market volumes in order to recover costs.
 
From my perspective, I think at this point in time it is a wait and see, I have nothing to add to the debate untill there is a more defined way over the obvious issues.
At least they are going to extend the life, of the current generation, over one more summer so that gives some time for a solution to found.
 
Nothing will come of the nuclear enquiry.

It's just to satisfy a few of the Coalition's mates in the business or their own people with possibly a vested interest.

Labor and the Greens will never back it, so nuclear is *always* going to be a dead duck in this country unless there are dramatic technological advances like fusion.
 
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...y-emergency-oil-supplies-20190801-p52cti.html

Realising we've got a problem with not complying with international agreements = good

Trying to change the rules so that we comply without really doing anything = cheating

Counting oil on the other side of the world or still at sea on foreign owned ships as part of Australia's reserves = remind me why, exactly, we are paying the clowns who come up with this rubbish?
 
Last edited:
Odd that the Coalition's inquiry into nuclear power generation announced last week got no traction here!
What we need is energy that's cheap, reliable, environmentally acceptable and preferably independent of other nations for its ongoing operation.

Nuclear is reasonably reliable that's true.

It fails dismally on the "cheap" bit however and arguably fails on the other two points as well depending on how it's approached. As such it doesn't seem a realistic solution to the problem at least not using conventional fission reactors.

Meanwhile in WA, another one's set to bite the dust. A combination of economically priced gas, rising coal costs as the best has already been used and intermittent renewables are pulling the rug from under coal-fired generation with Muja C set to close one unit in 2022 and the other in 2024, leaving the two D station units as the only operating plant at Muja.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/wes...f-collie-coal-generators-20190805-p52e4e.html
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more...