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The future of energy generation and storage

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Value Collector, May 2, 2015.

sentifi.com

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  1. Smurf1976

    Smurf1976

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    That's what it comes down to and why, along with the financial aspects, I see it as a waste of time to be pursuing regardless of any technical merits to the idea. :2twocents
     
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  2. sptrawler

    sptrawler

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    There is one thing for sure smurf, something definite, will have to be formulated in the next 5 years.
    If your take on the system is accurate.
     
  3. Smurf1976

    Smurf1976

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    It's one of those things where nobody can be sure of the details but with so much old plant in service, it's only a matter of time......
     
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  4. qldfrog

    qldfrog

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    At least some are aware
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07...ow-energy-users-to-sell-back-to-grid/11319494
    I have finally found how to have a successful business in Australia
    Buy a money loosing energy greedy plant rendered uncompetitive by our energy costs, minimal wages and regulation
    And get paid to stop it while you threaten to restart production
    Total madness in the whole
    Ps.i understand the need now for this type of action, but this is crazy to arrive to these extremes
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  5. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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  6. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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    AEMC urges change to allow users to sell power back to the grid to guarantee energy demand

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07...ow-energy-users-to-sell-back-to-grid/11319494

    Why do I get the feeling that so many rules, regulations , incentives and disincentives are being added to try and compensate for other rules and regulations that we are losing sight of the main game, which is just to match supply with demand ?

    Or are these rules and regulations a natural consequence of the deregulated market ? And is that previous statement just an oxymoron ? :cool:
     
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  7. sptrawler

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    There is no down side for these companies installing solar, it reduces their operating costs as it will probably be Gov underwritten offtake and if it all goes pear shaped they still have the fossil fuel.
    Another interesting part of the article, is the mention of a 15,000 hectare (150sq/Km) solar farm in the Barkley area, it's all going to be very interesting.
    Wait till Bob Brown reads that.:roflmao:
     
  8. SirRumpole

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    Yes, but all the endangered species will be able to shelter under the solar panels.

    Problem solved. :cool:
     
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  9. sptrawler

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    There is talk of a 300sq/Km one in the NW of W.A, it won't be a sunburnt Country. :xyxthumbs
    I suppose the decision will have to be a solar farm, or a food farm.:rolleyes:
     
  10. sptrawler

    sptrawler

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    Here you go Rumpy, that isn't a solar farm, this is a solar farm.:D

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/pilbara-green-hydrogen-project-grows-to-15gw-wind-and-solar-97972/

    As we said when it was first suggested, I hope they have a domestic reservation policy, before all this land is taken up to make and export our hydrogen.:roflmao:
     
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  11. SirRumpole

    SirRumpole

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  12. sptrawler

    sptrawler

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  13. qldfrog

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    I think if done properly you could still graze sheeps in a de facto shaded area, but i am afraid it is not currently designed for this
     
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  14. Smurf1976

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    There was about 900 MW of wind and large scale solar generation off loaded today mostly in Vic and SA but a bit elsewhere too. High wind + sunny + low demand = nowhere for it to go and that persisted from about 10:30 to 16:00 eastern states time.

    That's additional to storage based hydro (Tas, Vic) and most gas (except the minimum required in SA for stability) being off and coal plant (Vic) ramping down. Spot prices were negative for much of this time too.

    The impacts won't please the owners of some of these facilities. Be careful what you invest in.

    It probably won't please some governments either once they realise that simply building enough wind and solar to generate 50% of the state's power doesn't mean you'll actually be using 50% wind and solar when some of it's going to waste.

    For the solutions, that really comes down to a combination of things. Storage of the sort that's able to charge consistently for hours on end not just an hour or two plus big transmission projects are the solution ultimately as well as things like shifting the timing of some loads.:2twocents
     
  15. Smurf1976

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    Adding to the above that gas-fired generation was ramped up from about 17:30 onwards.

    So wind and solar going to waste for 5.5 hours, then an hour and a half after that ended we're burning gas to keep the lights on.

    Hence the value of being able to store that surplus and then use it later. Or at least send it to another state and put it to use in NSW or Qld thus saving gas or coal rather than having it go to waste. :2twocents
     
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  16. sptrawler

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  17. SirRumpole

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    Quite a few countries have wind farms off-shore.

    Harder to maintain perhaps, but maybe more efficient at catching sea breezes and easier on wildlife..
     
  18. sptrawler

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    Yes, I saw a lot in the U.K and Europe, it may depend on the depth of the offshore water.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
  19. Smurf1976

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    That's precisely the attraction of an island just off the coast.

    It gets a consistent breeze but, since it's still technically on land, avoids most of the extra construction and maintenance costs.

    Therein lies the big problem with all this.

    The single largest hydro-electric dam that could possibly be built in Australia, in terms of annual output, is the one that Bob made very sure wasn't built 36 years ago. That was the end of hydro construction in Australia at a national level basically - very little has been done since that, it became far easier politically to go with coal or gas (and yes that was a definite consideration, of that I am 100% certain).

    The single best place to put wind farms is the one that's subject to this current disagreement. Exactly how it pans out is anyone's guess but suffice to say we're already hitting the "running out of low hanging fruit" problem with having so many in Vic and SA so they need to go somewhere else if we're to keep growing the use of wind overall and do so in an economic manner. Wipe the best sites off the map and that dents the economics of it all. :2twocents
     
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  20. Smurf1976

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    Addition to previous post:

    The point being that whether it's hydro, wind or anything else the best places to put things, in terms of resources, often conflict with other values such as conservation or scenery.

    Conservation of things worthy of conserving I'm in favour of but if it's just about scenery, well that's a very temporary impact and anyone even slightly concerned about the CO2 issue isn't sensibly going to be too worried about how any solution looks aesthetically. :2twocents
     
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