I am in agreement with this philosophy.Originally posted by eddievanhalen. Thread: Which one do you use? Technical or fundamental analysis. Post:152
the best traders I know are "discretionary" and have a system based upon experience and some concrete principles which cannot be punched into a system tester and "proven" - they are based upon a huge amount of observation , experience and hard work.
Originally posted by mit
ps. I do play piano and guitar. I learn music by rote and no I can't improvise. But it wouldn't have any difference as I couldn't improvise before. Lack of talent unfortunately.
Originally posted by mit
With backtesting you can see the effect of widening or shrinking stops. The effect of different position sizing methods. The effects of taking profits or using trailing stop. You can also test a lot of things you see in books which don't work.
Magdoran said:Hi mit,
Really, so you play, that’s great! I used to play guitar in a few bands years ago, and even taught a bit too… I did a lot of improvising, and helped quite a few musicians to learn how to “jam”… a bit rusty now though, and probably going slowly deaf… what’s that??? You know, you actually might have some hidden talent. Can you hear pieces in your head for example?
If you mean the system then:What triggers your entry/exit?
NoDo you forecast price for entries and exits?
exit at exdiv unless stopped out.Do you forecast time for entries and exits?
Liquidity has to be high enough. I find anything averaging below $400k turnover per day not worth the hassle and will usually give me slippage between the backtested system and what actually happens.Do you interpret bar/volume in you process?
Do you use any kind of wave structure analysis in your mechanical system?
Does your system define the stop for you, or do you actually use a method of interpretation of the chart to do this (i.e. use a technical stop)?
How do you determine the trend?
Hence understanding your own bias can be a subtle yet critical element right from the core strategic approach to investing/trading.
So, going down the mechanical/back testing route in effect excludes a whole range of alternative approaches. Many that do this have not considered the trade off they are making.
Here’s my controversial perspective on technical analysis: I think that oscillators/moving averages actually obscure the individual’s capacity to really perceive the way markets trend. I would argue that by focussing on formulas and algorithms that a trader becomes reliant on automation, and may cease to really study charts and how markets trade.
I also think that there are discernable market patterns through the ages, and looking at interrelated markets (e.g. currencies and related commodities/indexes) is vital to developing a holistic approach to investment/trading.
There are tradeoffs adopting the mechanical/back test style though. In a way a trader going down this path is surrendering their own inherent direct analytical skills to a “black box (although the better mechanical people at least understand what is in the “black box”).
The problem I see is that the approach is only as good as the backward oriented analysis of a time in the past, and if the trader/investor is looking into the future while imposing their bias on the market (either by machine or by limiting their ability to perceive psychologically, or both), then they are resigning themselves to a limited ability to “see” the market. eddievanhalen made an excellent point on another thread which I fully agree with:
I am in agreement with this philosophy.
To me the problem with discretionary trading for a beginner is how do they know that they are a good discretionary trader? Are those string of losses a normal drawdown or is their method crap? I'm sure that prior to May there were a lot of people who thought they were terrific traders.
You guys really seem to know your **** and hopefully one day i can revisit this post and add my two cents.
I am a noob to trading so the only way i can verify if my trading plan (mechanical at this stage) has some potential, is to use some sort of backtest solution. I totally agree as stated earlier that there are probably hundreds of valid trading methods but for now in my position i see a mchanical backtest the only way
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