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- 7 March 2009
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You will see as far as CFD providers go and volume, they will close this account down once I get over $50-$75 per tick. As far as the Futs my system is a little different.
TH,
Why are you so definitive that they will shut the account down at that level of trading?
Because they always do.
Some providers will not even let me open an account.
Ha!!
Looks like they aren't to keen for me to throw my coin in the bucket today.
Game over!!
You mean the provider stopped your account (as anticipated), or you've reached your maximum loss for the day?
I can't get a trade to execute. takes 20 -30 seconds after I hit the button.
I can see how that can be a bit of a handicap with an average hold time of 30 seconds
TH,
Given the interruption to your account, I'd be interested to know the name of the CFD provider - do you mind providing it?
Thanks,
Greg
No. It wouldn't be fair to exclude the others. They all do it and have.
Now, some CFDs suppliers do so on a “Direct Market Access” basis – that is their bids and offers EXACTLY match the bids and offers in the actual market they are supplying the CFD for.
With these little tricks (ie. slowing down execution - even just based on this one alone!), i cant see how anyone would want to trade CFD's with a MM.
I guess I am just keen to take small steps before I go onto a full sized contract, but I don't want to be disadvantaged by a MM whilst I am learning.
Its my understanding that trading with a bucketshop MM isnt actually classified as trading.....its gambling. Is there any tax payable on gambling profits?
also,
not all MMs slow your trade down when trading $25 lots, some actually take your trade to the futures market if you have a good track record because they dont want to pay you when u get it right, nor do they want to lose you by slowing your orders.
if you have a poor track record they wont bother, they just wait for you to make another mistake. so not all MMs slow you down as you increase contract size.
can't speak for others, but yes i have to pay tax on my "bucket shop" accounts --- but i had a previous trading history as well, so that may have some effect --- speak to an accountant if in doubt --- everyone's situation is different..
CFDs can be characterised as cash settled Over-the-Counter (OTC) derivative products, in that your dealings with us under the Customer Agreement do not
provide for a party to make or accept delivery of the underlying instrument. The
ATO takes the view that CFDs are in law categorised as contracts of gaming and
wagering, however this alone is not determinative of the tax treatment of gains and
losses.
Gains
The ATO has taken the view that gains from trading CFDs will be assessable income-
(i) where the CFD is entered into as an ordinary incident of carrying on a business;
(ii) where the profit was obtained in a business operation;
(iii) where the profit was obtained in a commercial transaction for the purpose of
profit making; or
(iv) where the profit is made in carrying on or out a profit making scheme.
Further, the ATO has taken the view that even an isolated CFD transaction can be
considered to produce assessable income for the taxpayer. It should be noted that
the ATO’s interpretation of what would fall within these parameters is very broad
and appears likely to include all CFD trading, whether frequent or not.
However the Ruling also contemplates that a gain from a CFD entered into for the
purpose of recreation by gambling (and not for a profit-making purpose) will not be
assessable as income (or capital gain). The Ruling acknowledges that a taxpayer who
enters into a CFD only once, or very occasionally, who has no expertise in the price
of the underlying by which the gain or loss of the CFD will be calculated, does not
engage in any income producing activities of a character bearing some association
or connection with the CFD or its underlying, and in particular who gambles in the
ordinary recreational way and who has entered into the CFD in circumstances such
that the CFD may be seen to be part of that recreation, may establish that the gain
or loss is a product of recreational gambling (and not the result of a profit making
endeavour).
Only noobs would trade off there data alone .
MM futures charts are pegged to the actual futures.
Overlay the MM futures chart and the actual futures chart, they should be almost identical.
ST there is nothing to worry about here. The steps are simple yet people tend to want to worry about everything except what matters.
Steps to trading futs are as follows,
- Backtest
- Sim
- Trade live on CFD minis if new to trading or small account
- Once profitable move to cheaper & real futs
- Increase volume
- Pick colour of Ferrari
CFDs are a good learning tool but are VERY expensive and you would be mad to trade off the data that they provide. Worrying about MM stop sweeps and dodgy practises will just get you paranoid and bitter before you even get to playing with the big boyz in the futs who are far more dodgy and ruthless than any bucketshops. Get over it, it's a game of taking money off someone else.
If you can afford to open an IB account ($10,000 USD min account opening) you can get the data for free or next to free for most futs markets. Ninja has a great sim which you connect to IB for free if you are doing manual trades.
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