Israel Folau - Breach of contract or right to free speech?

[rederob]

A question is how far does it go?

For example Rugby Australia is sponsored by Qantas. As with all airlines Qantas uses a lot of jet fuel and is thus a fairly big polluter in terms of CO2.

Now what if one of these rugby players posts something online urging people to vote for a political party which advocates a carbon tax or other price on CO2 emissions?

Not directly bad for the employer but not good for a major sponsor's business if someone's going to tax them more.

So what's the response? Sack them?

Or the link is too indirect since it's only the sponsor and not the employer itself being harmed by the action being advocated?

My point there is about where to draw the line on this overall concept not about Qantas or climate change specifically, they're just an example. I picked politics given that religion has already been done....

The nature of the damage needs to be unambiguous.
The damages need to be quantifiable.
The source of the damage needs to be verifiable.
The jurisdiction needs to provide a means for remedy.
In your example the linkages appear too tenuous for any liability to be prosecuted.

 

[rederob]

The area seems so broad that any employer could seemingly call a breach of contract for virtually any statement by an employee that potentially, possibly, directly or indirectly (note legal jargon ) causes a loss of revenue , or even loss of reputation for the employer.

Not so.
The law sets a high bar.
Reputational damage claims are not common in Australia: defamation is more common path to damages claims.
Here's an example of a successful case.

 

[moXJO]

It's not in mine.
He could have got these from the Bible, but seemed to overlook them:

• selling one’s daughter into slavery (Exodus 21:7)
• stoning one to death for working on the Sabbath (Exodus 35:2)
• women not being permitted to speak in church (Corinthians 14:34)
• not wearing clothes woven from two materials (Leviticus 19:19)
• not eating shellfish (Leviticus 9:10).

I guess it depends which god people choose as to the foolishness of their beliefs.
Perhaps books that arose from practices condoned a few thousand years ago should be updated.

From this most likely:

“Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or males who have sex with males, no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom. And some of you used to be like this. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9–11, CSB)

 

[Tink]

 

[rederob]

Tink, if you have a comment about Folau or freedom of speech, then make it.
But your dogwhistling twitter feeds from Peterson do not belong in this thread.

(I don't think they belong anywhere except in the Twitterverse, which seems an apt place for twits.)

 

[Tink]

I have made a comment about Melbourne, and Margaret Court as an example.

The attack on Margaret Court Arena for her views.

 

[moXJO]

Rob what bible were you reading to not find the quote?

 

[rederob]

Rob what bible were you reading to not find the quote?

I have various King James versions.
Here is something more contextual.

 

[moXJO]

I have various King James versions.
Here is something more contextual.

Ok thought it might have been something different. Its in the king james version.

It is a quote from the bible so it will be interesting to see how they play it. Especially with the amount of islanders that play.

 

[rederob]

Ok thought it might have been something different. Its in the king james version.
It is a quote from the bible so it will be interesting to see how they play it. Especially with the amount of islanders that play.

The decision has already been made.
It's a clear breach of the players' Code of Conduct.

WRT the Bible, there were no contemporaneous references to homosexuality. Those references are only found in relatively recent versions. But that's not really the point. Free speech can have consequences. That is, your right to an opinion does not confer an immunity from other actions. This has been very much proven by the number of political candidates who have now been disendorsed.

As an aside, that Folau can believe that I, as an atheist, could go to Hell is very amusing.
Perhaps worse, however, is his idea that Christians can gather converts by targeting their frailties.
I suspect most people are aware they are not perfect as it's part and parcel of the human condition.

If course, if he had posted at ASF I would have asked that he provide evidence of what he claims.

 

[moXJO]

The decision has already been made.
It's a clear breach of the players' Code of Conduct.

WRT the Bible, there were no contemporaneous references to homosexuality. Those references are only found in relatively recent versions. But that's not really the point. Free speech can have consequences. That is, your right to an opinion does not confer an immunity from other actions. This has been very much proven by the number of political candidates who have now been disendorsed.

As an aside, that Folau can believe that I, as an atheist, could go to Hell is very amusing.
Perhaps worse, however, is his idea that Christians can gather converts by targeting their frailties.
I suspect most people are aware they are not perfect as it's part and parcel of the human condition.

If course, if he had posted at ASF I would have asked that he provide evidence of what he claims.

I thought the church recently backed away from there being a "hell" or something to that effect?
It wasn't actually in the bible and just used to scare cash out of people.

I only heard it briefly and didn't get the full story so don't quote me on that.

 

[jbocker]

So what Israel is telling me if I repent all my sins, I will be allowed in Gods Kingdom. What if I do that 5 minutes before I drop off dead. I think John Wayne did that and converted to a Catholic.
Not that I have to repent for much!

 

[Macquack]

Islanders can be very religious.

Being a athiest, I have always been very suspicious of why Jesus Christ who could walk on water did not venture down to the Southern Hemisphere to enlighten first hand the local Pacific Islanders and Indigenous Australians etc. Instead the locals were left in the dark until the white man missionaries came a knocking and spread the gospel. Sounds like pure brain washing to me.

 

[moXJO]

Being a athiest, I have always been very suspicious of why Jesus Christ who could walk on water did not venture down to the Southern Hemisphere to enlighten first hand the local Pacific Islanders and Indigenous Australians etc. Instead the locals were left in the dark until the white man missionaries came a knocking and spread the gospel. Sounds like pure brain washing to me.

Well whitey came in and told us all how it was. Now they get offended at what they created. Religion is deeply ingrained on many of the elders. And you are right it was basically brainwashing.

But you also have to look at it from the blacks point of view. You were basically told you were not equal through the actions of previous whites. You then have religion that tells you that you are all equal under God. They feed you and educate you. And well, your faith grows strong. For the damage that they did, they also did some good. Those who had stronger faith were able to keep away from some of the pitfalls of western society.

This whole situation will cause friction for many while its in the news.

 

[Macquack]

Is see Israel Folau has set up a GoFundMe page to help raise $3 million towards his legal fees in fighting the Australian Rugby Union. The guy is loaded and now he is crying poor. What a bloody disgrace.

 

[Dark Knight 2.0]

Is see Israel Folau has set up a GoFundMe page to help raise $3 million towards his legal fees in fighting the Australian Rugby Union. The guy is loaded and now he is crying poor. What a bloody disgrace.

That was my first impression too but,
he said he's already spent $100,000 in legal fees at Rugby Australias hearing. Going to the Federal Court and High Court will run into millions.

Being a Christian I'm guessing he gives away a lot of money to various charities.

I'm guessing the Gofundme page wasn't his idea, but ultimately his responsibility yes. There'd be a lot of people in his ear.

 

[rederob]

That was my first impression too but,
he said he's already spent $100,000 in legal fees at Rugby Australia's hearing. Going to the Federal Court and High Court will run into millions.
Being a Christian I'm guessing he gives away a lot of money to various charities.
I'm guessing the Gofundme page wasn't his idea, but ultimately his responsibility yes. There'd be a lot of people in his ear.

I am confused.
Folau worships someone who can turn bad people into good people so they can enter some (fictional) heaven.
But this god he worships cannot get his employers to see he is right?
Something here is amiss, don't you think?

 

[Dark Knight 2.0]

I am confused.
Folau worships someone who can turn bad people into good people so they can enter some (fictional) heaven.
But this god he worships cannot get his employers to see he is right?
Something here is amiss, don't you think?

Mate, I'm not saying he's a genius, but people with Faith do "interesting" things.

FWIW I think that head of RA should be sacked and Alan Joyce disqualified from holding any Director responsibility.

 

[tech/a]

Ahhh Religion.

Where your or my beliefs are more right than my or your beliefs.

 

[Dark Knight 2.0]

Communists