Israel Folau - Breach of contract or right to free speech?

[Dark Knight 2.0]

Circular opinion

!

NO, Australian Christian Lobby have donated $100,000. They also have set up a new donations website.

Fact not opinion!

 

[tech/a]

Circular fact then.

 

[rederob]

For once, i disagree:
this is a show case for freedom of expression/speech, and the rulings will apply to all in the foreseeable future.

When you disagree, you need to show how your ideas are viable.
You do not and cannot.

 

[rederob]

On the second point, it's a matter of a person's right to state their opinions without being sacked for it. This is a pretty basic right in my view, whether the opinions are religious, political or anything else. These rights are worth fighting for as they apply to all of us, not just rugby players so I think they have to be taken seriously.[/QUOTE]Consistently wrong.
There are laws offering workplace protections for those aggrieved by the opinions of others. That is, it is a basic right to attend your place of work and not be discriminated against, harassed or bullied.
You still do not get it Rumpy!

 

[SirRumpole]

On the second point, it's a matter of a person's right to state their opinions without being sacked for it. This is a pretty basic right in my view, whether the opinions are religious, political or anything else. These rights are worth fighting for as they apply to all of us, not just rugby players so I think they have to be taken seriously

Consistently wrong.
There are laws offering workplace protections for those aggrieved by the opinions of others. That is, it is a basic right to attend your place of work and not be discriminated against, harassed or bullied.
You still do not get it Rumpy!

Robbie , Folau is not bullying anyone, he's leaving that to God in the afterlife !

Can't you understand that ?

 

[rederob]

Robbie , Folau is not bullying anyone, he's leaving that to God in the afterlife !
Can't you understand that ?

That is not the point I made, so selectively drawing on just one of the issues I raised does not help your cause.
Unrestrained freedom of expression is not reconcilable with extant workplace laws. But you have never been able to work that out.

 

[SirRumpole]

Unrestrained freedom of expression is not reconcilable with extant workplace laws.

Noone is saying freedom of expression should be unconstrained.

I'm saying what Folau has said does not amount to bullying and does not affect his ability to do his job and therefore he shouldn't be sacked.

 

[rederob]

I'm saying what Folau has said does not amount to bullying and does not affect his ability to do his job and therefore he shouldn't be sacked

He warned people, implied they were sinners, said they were headed for hell, but not if he did as quoted. That's a classic case of bullying under any definition you throw up.

People should be able to express their opinion on any subject they like as long as it doesn't detract from them doing their job

No, so long as it is consistent with prevailing workplace laws and other contractual constraints.

If RA had just said "we don't agree with what he said, but support his right to say it", the situation would be over now.

RA cannot support contracted players breaching the code of conduct they agreed to and still you cannot see this!

On the second point, it's a matter of a person's right to state their opinions without being sacked for it. This is a pretty basic right in my view, whether the opinions are religious, political or anything else.

And I have shown it is NOT.

 

[Logique]

The Australian Rugby Union doesn't dictate freedom of speech, or freedom of religion, and neither does GoFundMe. Neither does Qantas, Mr Joyce.

ACL donations page:
https://www.acl.org.au/donate_izzy
How you can support Israel Folau

"...On behalf of the Australian Christian Lobby, I have spoken to Israel Folau to let him know that ACL will be donating $100,000 to his legal defence.."
Martyn Iles
Managing Director, Australian Christian Lobby

 

[sptrawler]

If there has been any bullying going on IMO, it has been by the pro LGBT lobby, to get funding for Folau withdrawn.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...mob-and-kills-folau-page-20190624-p520ps.html

 

[sptrawler]

He warned people, implied they were sinners, said they were headed for hell, but not if he did as quoted. That's a classic case of bullying under any definition you throw up.

He warned, he implied they were doing something wrong and told them they would go to a fictitious place.

Doesn't sound like a strong case, for sacking someone to me.
Bit like sacking someone, for dropping the teapot, in the crib room. IMO

 

[wayneL]

Who did Issy bully @rederob ?

 

[SirRumpole]

He warned people, implied they were sinners, said they were headed for hell, but not if he did as quoted. That's a classic case of bullying under any definition you throw up.

Only if you actually believe in God, Heaven and Hell, if not the statement is meaningless.

And even then, he can't prove what he said so people are entitled to laugh it off.

Bloody hell, (no pun intended), it's one man's silly beliefs against a whole swag of SJW's who will weigh in against him. The idea that one man's unproven beliefs are going to cause people to go out and top themselves is absurd.

The only damage he has done is to himself, but he still has a right to earn a living.

 

[moXJO]

There can be illegal contract clauses if it goes against the law. Eg: Stopping people from joining a union or participate in union action.

I'm not saying thats what happened here. Just that a contract doesn't trump the law or peoples rights.

 

[rederob]

Only if you actually believe in God, Heaven and Hell, if not the statement is meaningless.

I posted in the "5 Commandments thread.
Use applicable law to support you ideas rather than offer your opinion.

 

[SirRumpole]

I posted in the "5 Commandments thread.
Use applicable law to support you ideas rather than offer your opinion.

Laws are passed by the ones that most benefit from them.

That doesn't make them right.

 

[rederob]

The general argument in the Folau thread has not been about the Bible or religion, but about people's rights to express their opinions about any subject they choose without retaliation from their employers.

That's your idea.
Folau is going to see if the FWC agree with him that his termination was unlawful on the grounds of his RELIGION. The FWC does not rule on matters of free speech.

 

[sptrawler]

That's your idea.
Folau is going to see if the FWC agree with him that his termination was unlawful

Or excessive.

 

[Junior]

There are so many better people out there to defend or donate money to, than Israel Folau.

 

[sptrawler]

There are so many better people out there to defend or donate money to, than Israel Folau.

That in itself, doesn't make him unworthy.
Also it would appear some disagree, the donations are upto $500,000+
I won't post the link, it could get Joe in the manure.
All I think it has done, is turn a percentage of the population off the Go Fund Me website, which is unfortunate because needy people may well lose out.